[quote]Inprea wrote...
The entire circle isn't devoted to a single mage. If you want to talk about how a mage lives let's look at the space an individual mage has. If you're an apprentice you have part of a bunk bed and a chest. Everything else you share amongst several others. Then after your death match you have a single room that doesn't even have a door to itself in most cases.[/quote]
Much like families share homes in poorer conditions. None of that changes the fact that the White Spire is located in Drakon's former palace. The orlesian mages are, literally, living in a palace.
I'd rather share a palace than live by myself in a pigsty.
[quote]What good is an education if you're not allowed to put it to use to benefit yourself? All it means if you've put a lot of work into learning something you can't use.[/quote]
Mages conduct business with the outside world and there possibilities for ascension withint he hierarchy of the Circle. Just because mages are not free to selects careers outside of the realm of magic doesn't mean they can't put their studies to use. After all, in medieval times, your profession was, more oftne than not, dictated by your family. If your father was a smith, chances are you'd be one as well. It's not so different.
Plus, knowledge for knowledge's sake.
[quote]
When was the last time a mage was allowed to own a sheep to be slaughtered? Unless memory fails me mages aren't even allowed to own land.[/quote]
Mages are allowed to purchase private proprierty. How far this extends, I don't know.
[quote]How often is your average person locked away and denied to go see their family just because of what they were born as? A mage finds themselves in danger of losing their life whenever they try to better their situation. [/quote]
So do peasants. Thedas is an extremely dangerous place and commoners face starvation, disease, abuse of power, bandits, darkspawn and they have less powers with which to combat these threats when compared to mages.
And no is denied to see their families. Leandra and Gamlen visited Bethany quite frequently. The reasons most mages don't see their families are twofold:
1-Most families disown their progeny when they reveal themselves to be mages.
2-There are no cars people can used to travel around and while this isn't a problem if the Circle is located in a city; which brings its own set of problems as DA2 proved; in countries like Ferelden, a peasant family trying to make a trip from Denerim to the Circle for a visit would be nearly unthinkable.
[quote]
Because the guardsmen have the same population density as the templars do amongst the mages and stand around inside the home of the citizens.[/quote]
It's a matter of numbers? And here I tought your point was that Templars are somehow more prone to abuses than guardsmen.
[quote]
So all those templars that fought alongside Alrick didn't exist?[/quote]
Alrik had supporters, true, but he even threatened a few so they would keep quiet which shows that the higher echelons of the Order don't just ignore abuses of this magnitude.
[quote]Do you also ignore the existance of every blood mage and abomination that wasn't given a name? [/quote]
Well, I don't think we can take their numbers at face-value, no, or the ratio of criminals to upstanding citizens in Kirkwall would 50:1.
[quote]
They had no trouble stabbing them, even when they're a child, such as in Aneirin's case.
[/quote]
Anders was brought back seven times. I'm willing to give the Templars the benefit of the doubt and consider the possibility that Aneirin might have done something to merit more violent treatment such as attacking the Templars sent to retrieve him.
[quote]They have no trouble forcing the mages into a death match with a demon or destroying their self with tranquility. A mage goes 20 or so years without turning into an abomination then they're forced into a death match. [/quote]
That is a completely different issue. The Harrowing is the ultimate test to determine just how safe a mage can truly be considered. Just because the Templars are unwilling to accept mages who have not proven themselves against demons amongst their midst doesn't mean they are drowning babies for kicks.
[quote]
What makes you think that it's free?[/quote]
I'm talking about coin here.
[quote]Seems to me the mage is paying with their ability to raise children, chance to better their situation, severe carreer restrictions, possibly their life and in some cases any land they might have recieved from their parents.[/quote]
They make some sacrifices and in return are granted benefits commoners could only dream of.
[quote]Is there even any proof that the chantry is the one paying for that food, clothing and shelter? The mages do produce goods to sell. If the mages are the ones paying for all that then those things aren't free they're just paid back later.[/quote]
Mages are a resource. Even if they suddenly became unable to provide for themselves, the Chantry would never let them starve.
[quote]Given how desperate some mages are to avoid going to the circle should show how much some people value freedom and how horrible of a price they consider it.[/quote]
True but that doesn't change the fact their standard of living; which is something that can be measured in objective terms; is superior to that of the average Thedosion.
They doth protest too much.
[quote]
That depends on if the mages were allowed to organize rather then being forced to hide. [/quote]
They are organized. That is what the Circle is; an organization composed of mages that represent their interests. They are just kept in check by other organizations such as the Templars and the Chantry which is preferable to letting them pursue their interests with complete impunity.
[quote]Malchom Hawke had no trouble teaching his child/children. [/quote]
We don't know that.
[quote]
Would that have happened if they didn't have to hide her but a mage would have been allowed to come and mentor her? [/quote]
So, we are just going to provide every single mage child with a private tutor? Who is going to pay for that tutor? How is he going to reach his destination? Will he stay with the family of the child in question? Can magic even be mentored in a common house? What if there is an accident? What if the child is possessed.
[quote]Besides I don't believe you think there is no other options. You've brought up ideas that you believed superior to the current circle system yourself.[/quote]
I don't believe it's posible for normal parents to keep their mage children and vice-versa.
[quote]It's just no one has bothered looking for one or the chantry has prevented them from being attempted.
[/quote]
There have been plenty of attempts to search for middle ground. They just keep on failling.
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