hhh89 wrote...
JSIther: insane or not, you can't discount Corypheus's words. He IS one to the ancient magister that reached the Fade. We can discuss about the Golden city, but they did reach the Fade by sacrificing slaves and lyrium.
Not pretty cool if it turns you into a darskpawn. And it still can't be done without using sacrifices, unless you want to use all the lyrium of an enourmous Empire.JSlither wrote...
hhh89 wrote...
JSIther: insane or not, you can't discount Corypheus's words. He IS one to the ancient magister that reached the Fade. We can discuss about the Golden city, but they did reach the Fade by sacrificing slaves and lyrium.
That's actually pretty cool.
The walking the Fade part. Not the sacrifice part.
Modifié par hhh89, 22 février 2014 - 10:15 .
You don't stop him from killing Ella?JSlither wrote...
@DB:
Anders ain't my boy. I'm pro mage but he's a real POS.
First he murders that girl and doesn't off himself like he should've, then he commits genocide and has the nerve to tell me it was for the best. **** that dood.
I must have missed that option or whatever in that particular playthrough. She's survived others.LDS Darth Revan wrote...
You don't stop him from killing Ella?JSlither wrote...
@DB:
Anders ain't my boy. I'm pro mage but he's a real POS.
First he murders that girl and doesn't off himself like he should've, then he commits genocide and has the nerve to tell me it was for the best. **** that dood.
I should of said that it SOUNDS cool. Imagine having Feynriel's powers. C'mon how awesome is that?hhh89 wrote...
Not pretty cool if it turns you into a darskpawn. And it still can't be done without using sacrifices, unless you want to use all the lyrium of an enourmous Empire.JSlither wrote...
hhh89 wrote...
JSIther: insane or not, you can't discount Corypheus's words. He IS one to the ancient magister that reached the Fade. We can discuss about the Golden city, but they did reach the Fade by sacrificing slaves and lyrium.
That's actually pretty cool.
The walking the Fade part. Not the sacrifice part.
JSlither wrote...
I should of said that it SOUNDS cool. Imagine having Feynriel's powers. C'mon how awesome is that?
Modifié par Chaoticos, 22 février 2014 - 11:13 .
Darth Brotarian wrote...
According to the world of threads blood magic has a degenerative effect on the mind, causing mages to eventually desire to use it against others whether they started out wanting to or not.
Chaoticos wrote...
JSlither wrote...
I should of said that it SOUNDS cool. Imagine having Feynriel's powers. C'mon how awesome is that?
I think that mindset is actually a problem. Too much enthusiasm for a certain goal or possibility can blind
you for the potential risks. And if you add demons -who are per definitionem master seducer/corrupter/negotiater-
you will also be easier to corrupt. Remember: demons can hide their appearance, they won't neccessary talk
to you in the most obvious form (I'm thinking a bit of the Mage Origin).
And remember a quote: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutly"
Magic kills like a sword, but you can take sword away and you have just a "normal" person.
But you can't take away magic. Even if the person is to weak to actually resist even the most basic
temptation...
EDIT: Additional thought:
1. It is better to be a well fed and unfree than free and starving imho
2. Once you succumb you are no longer free, you are possesed.
..My point was that freedom or not is NOT the most important thing.JSlither wrote...
Chaoticos wrote...
JSlither wrote...
I should of said that it SOUNDS cool. Imagine having Feynriel's powers. C'mon how awesome is that?
I think that mindset is actually a problem. Too much enthusiasm for a certain goal or possibility can blind
you for the potential risks. And if you add demons -who are per definitionem master seducer/corrupter/negotiater-
you will also be easier to corrupt. Remember: demons can hide their appearance, they won't neccessary talk
to you in the most obvious form (I'm thinking a bit of the Mage Origin).
And remember a quote: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutly"
Magic kills like a sword, but you can take sword away and you have just a "normal" person.
But you can't take away magic. Even if the person is to weak to actually resist even the most basic
temptation...
EDIT: Additional thought:
1. It is better to be a well fed and unfree than free and starving imho
2. Once you succumb you are no longer free, you are possesed.
I believe the increased susceptibility is more because the demons can counter BM than the individual being weaker. Avernus said that if I recall.
Isabella: "I never give in to temptation."
1. I'm sure you'd sing a different tune if the one holding your leash was horribly abusive like Lord Ramsey Bolton or something. Look him up.
2. True.
Chaoticos wrote...
Ok, sorry, but this rambling of the poor mages is getting on my nerves, I mean it is not the every one else lives in a golder age and just the poor mages have to suffer injustice.
The live is ****ty everywhere else too, so it would be great if the pro-mages take that into consideration..
Well, I'm going to shut up now, have a nice day.
Chaoticos wrote...
..My point was that freedom or not is NOT the most important thing.JSlither wrote...
Chaoticos wrote...
JSlither wrote...
I should of said that it SOUNDS cool. Imagine having Feynriel's powers. C'mon how awesome is that?
I think that mindset is actually a problem. Too much enthusiasm for a certain goal or possibility can blind
you for the potential risks. And if you add demons -who are per definitionem master seducer/corrupter/negotiater-
you will also be easier to corrupt. Remember: demons can hide their appearance, they won't neccessary talk
to you in the most obvious form (I'm thinking a bit of the Mage Origin).
And remember a quote: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutly"
Magic kills like a sword, but you can take sword away and you have just a "normal" person.
But you can't take away magic. Even if the person is to weak to actually resist even the most basic
temptation...
EDIT: Additional thought:
1. It is better to be a well fed and unfree than free and starving imho
2. Once you succumb you are no longer free, you are possesed.
I believe the increased susceptibility is more because the demons can counter BM than the individual being weaker. Avernus said that if I recall.
Isabella: "I never give in to temptation."
1. I'm sure you'd sing a different tune if the one holding your leash was horribly abusive like Lord Ramsey Bolton or something. Look him up.
2. True.
I'm for improving the situation inside the towers, the goal should be humane treatment of the mages.
But aside of that? Let us do IMPORTANT things first. Like improving the situation of the majority of people.
The Seekers should have controlled the Templars better, true. There was serious abuse in the Towers, true.
Doesn't change the fact that the "mundane" people as some call them have also problems. Abusive lords,
poor harvests, deseases and so on. Main difference? the mages are fed (at least as long as the system works)
the poor hunger. The mages leave in relative comfort - the poor live on streets or huts often enough.
I dare to say there are more poor people then mages..
So instead of going on about theoreticle freedom of people who have PROVEN to be even more suspicable
towards corruption than the normal guy in power maybe we should start to increase the welfare of ALL people?
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
What evidence is there that Eluvians can allow Demons to escape, other then the word of an Abomination who prior to possession was so biased that she repeatedly refused to do even one ounce of research into them?
JSlither wrote...
What factors into choosing one of these stances is the level of danger you believe mages pose to society. So far I haven't seen anything that warrants them being locked up and villified instead of simply trained to control their abilities and to be able to fight off demons. Also, if and when something unfortunate occurs, a Templar like organization made up of mages and mundanes can respond and resolve the situation as necessary.
What I see in the current system is simple fear and ignorance of magic by those who lack the power themselves.
I know the discussion already moved on from that but this irritates me everytime I read it (not, that it isn't a valid argument. It is, of course, but still.).Darth Brotarian wrote...
JSlither wrote...
How so?KaiserShep wrote...
JSlither wrote...
Why are there no mages in the Templars?
Think about it.
It would undermine the entire purpose of the order.
The templars ensure mages don't become a corrupt self regulating heirarchy as they were in the times of old tevinter.
So the solution is to put mages in positons of self-regulation and allow them to become a corrupt self regulating hierarchy as they were in the times of old tevinter.
JSlither wrote...
If the bad guy is a master swordsman, others with equal or comparable skill may be brought in to take him down.
If the bad guy is a master archer the same applies.
If the bad guy is a mage the same should apply. Who better to combat powerful mages than other powerful mages?
Think of magic like it's a knife. Is a knife more of a threat or is it more of a resource? I say resource. A skilled artisan can make something beautiful by carving wood or clay. A cook can use it to help prepare a meal. When used properly and for the right reasons, a knife is a wonderful resource. However, in the hands of the unskilled a knife becomes potentially harmful to the wielder and to those around him. In the hands of those with bad intentions the dangers are even more sever.
However the solution is not to ban knives but to teach people how to use them properly. And if someone uses it to harm another, the people should see to it that justice is served. The same should be true of magic.
So basically Audacity taught Merrill blood magic out of the goodness of its heart........... So how is this any less naieve than before?The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
MisterJB wrote...
Ok, let's assume that what the demon wanted all along was to possess Marethari.
What that means is that, in order for that theory to be true, he had to have
also manipulated Merril into restoring the Eluvian thus leaving the
clan thus leading to Marethari being possessed.
Which means, even if
the Merril fans are right, she was still manipulated by a demon with
whom she decided to have a conversation.
Not necessarily. He could've simply been paying attention.
The sequence of events is that Merrill took a shard from the ruins and, for some time, kept it hidden (and feasibly, used the Dalish healing magic Marethari taught her to suppress the taint within). At some time around Sundermount, she approached Marethari and asked, per Dalish protocol (consistent with DAO Merrill!), that they combine their magic to cleanse the shard.
Marethari refused, and this led to them arguing over what should be done. Merrill decided that, since she was without lyrium, she needed to learn blood magic. And she probably remembered the Demon Marethari and her encountered in the short story, so she ventured up to the summit and conversed with Audacity. Audacity taught her the magic, and she used blood magic to amplify her Dalish healing magic, cleansing the shard of its taint.
Then she went back to Marethari and informed her of her success, saying they can rebuild the Eluvian together. Chances are, given what Merrill says of Marethari's domineering demeanor, she ended up spilling the beans on just how she did so, causing the rift to widen.
All the while, Audacity is probably paying attention and thinking "Hey, I can turn this to my benefit!".
So it's not that he necessarily manipulated Merrill. It's more that he just was paying attention to it. Merrill's desire to repair the Eluvian was NOT the result of Audacity, but of her own desire and curiosity -- curiosity that is even mentioned in DAO.
Technically Elemental magic can also be used to heat a forge, water a field, cooling down goods, and a multidue of other purposes than simply inflict damage on another. Blood magic, not so much.hhh89 wrote...
blood magic is obviously an offensive type of magic, but elemental is too. They're obviously used for harming others. The use Jowan did (using his blood to fight templars), is no different of the use any mage do of dire and electric spells.
There's nothing wrong in using your own blood to fuel spells. Problem is, mages often don't stop at that.
By the way, Darth, are you sure that in WoT is stated that BM has a degenerative effect on the mind? I recall the pain-powering part and increasing risks in demon possession.
Who says they don't? Most Pro-Mages also argue for better lives for the other oppressed groups too, like the City Elves and Casteless Dwarves.Chaoticos wrote...
Ok, sorry, but this rambling of the poor mages is getting on my nerves, I mean it is not the every one else lives in a golder age and just the poor mages have to suffer injustice.
The live is ****ty everywhere else too, so it would be great if the pro-mages take that into consideration..
Well, I'm going to shut up now, have a nice day.
I always hated the "Mages are like nukes" argument. The most blatant example of hyperbole in the entire issue. At least compare them to something reasonable. Unless you have evidence that the average mage can wipe out tens of thousands of people in an instant.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
How naive.
Mages are more like nukesthan knives. Giving everyone nukes does NOT solve the problem.
"Nuke" is easier to type than a "Tomahawk cruise missile with only a partially operational guidance system". It is an exaggeration, but it gets the point across.LDS Darth Revan wrote...
I always hated the "Mages are like nukes" argument. The most blatant example of hyperbole in the entire issue. At least compare them to something reasonable. Unless you have evidence that the average mage can wipe out tens of thousands of people in an instant.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
How naive.
Mages are more like nukesthan knives. Giving everyone nukes does NOT solve the problem.
I have yet to see anyone argue that Orzammar should be torn down so that the Casteless could be free...LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Who says they don't? Most Pro-Mages also argue for better lives for the other oppressed groups too, like the City Elves and Casteless Dwarves.Chaoticos wrote...
Ok, sorry, but this rambling of the poor mages is getting on my nerves, I mean it is not the every one else lives in a golder age and just the poor mages have to suffer injustice.
The live is ****ty everywhere else too, so it would be great if the pro-mages take that into consideration..
Well, I'm going to shut up now, have a nice day.
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