8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

leaguer of one wrote...

 The priest don;t have a phycial way to enforce it themselves. Them being there is not a point being that all the lyrium in housed in the circle.

Again, you're just making things up again. None of your statements are backed up by anything but your opinion. 

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The Circle has some of it, just not most of it. If they need more thana monthly ration for example, they would go to the Chantry for it.

So in otherwords, you're just making things up. You don't actually know, you're just making up things to explain how Anders blew up the Chantry. 

You think they are just going to put all the lyrium in the circle with people who will abuse it and the only thing that can stop them are prists who have no battle experiance?

[MisterJB]

leaguer of one wrote...
Dude. How does a mage even store power to be used in another time much less to be able to power a bomb?

Magic.

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

 The priest don;t have a phycial way to enforce it themselves. Them being there is not a point being that all the lyrium in housed in the circle.

Again, you're just making things up again. None of your statements are backed up by anything but your opinion. 

Point to a prist that fight please.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 23 février 2014 - 04:09 .

[Br3admax]

Point to the Templar that would desecrate his religion for the dust he's already getting. You'll find both of us will have nothing to back it up in substantial number. Not unless with make it up, which we really should do.

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

Point to the Templar that would desecrate his religion for the dust he's already getting. You'll find both of us will have nothing to back it up in substantial number. Not unless with make it up, which we really should do.

Already given...You do know that the templars in Kirkwall were illegally smuggling lyrium in their circle. Why do that if they already have lyrium to use?

[Br3admax]

Because they want more? The same reason I can live off of $18,000 a year, but I still want a job that pays more than minimum wage. The same reason one can become addicted to any addictive substance, and always want more. And even if that had a point, which it doesn't, none of that supports that the lyrium is not in the Circle mostly.

[MisterJB]

They're drug addicts who crave more than their weekly ration?

edit:

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 février 2014 - 04:18 .

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

Because they want more? The same reason I can live off of $18,000 a year, but I still want a job that pays more than minimum wage. The same reason one can become addicted to any addictive substance, and always want more. And even if that had a point, which it doesn't, none of that supports that the lyrium is not in the Circle mostly.

Of couse it has a point. You're say the chantry wants to house the lyrium where the people they want to control with it want more and more of it. That make no sense to do it you want to control a group with drugs. They are going as for as smuggling more in the circle with the money they are payed and live on then wait to get some for free. 

[leaguer of one]

MisterJB wrote...

They're drug addicts who crave more than their weekly ration?

edit:

And you're going to keep you're stores of said lyrium used to make the drug they crave where these drug addicts live and work?

[dragonflight288]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MAGES CAN ENCHANT STUFF TOO!!!!!

You're drunk Eluvian.  Enchantments are just a figment of your imagination.  They don't exist.

Enchantments are powered by lyrium, not mages. Dwarves do enchantments, and there are no dwarven mages. Tranquil do enchantments and they can't cast spells at all. All enchantment is is folding lyrium runes into weapons and armor, the rune making up the spell and power of it, and the lyrium providing the power for it. 

[Banxey]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MAGES CAN ENCHANT STUFF TOO!!!!!

You're drunk Eluvian.  Enchantments are just a figment of your imagination.  They don't exist.

Enchantments are powered by lyrium, not mages. Dwarves do enchantments, and there are no dwarven mages. Tranquil do enchantments and they can't cast spells at all. All enchantment is is folding lyrium runes into weapons and armor, the rune making up the spell and power of it, and the lyrium providing the power for it. 

Also, the stronger a mage's connection to the fade, the more dangerous handling lyrium is. Which is why enchanting is mostly done by dwarves and tranquil. And considering Anders has a fade spirit inside of him, I don't think it would be a great idea for him to take up enchanting any time soon.

Anyway, I hope you don't mind me jumping in. But while I don't know if I agree with every one of Leaguer's points, I do think what he is getting at makes sense. If you consider that the sela petrae and drakestone are saltpetre and sulfer, in the quantity Anders has it wouldn't make a very powerful bomb. But it would make for a decent ignition system along with some lyrium dust to act as a fuse. Anders could have learnt all this from Dworkin while he was at Vigil's Keep. Dworkin seemed fairly crazed about his experiments, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think Anders might have spoken to him, or heard him speaking about it.

Assuming there is some form of ignition system, there would need to be fuel. And as LDS pointed out, the Chantry likely stores lyrium. There is even evidence to suggest this is true.

What processed lyrium is sold on the surface goes only to the Chantry, who strictly control the supply. From the Chantry, it is dispensed both to the templars, who make use of it in tracking and fighting maleficarum, and to the Circle.

 
If this creates a bomb, it's a bomb powered by a quantity of a substance that is more or less a pure form of magic. It would then create an explosion of "magic" which naturally looks magical. 

As for why it has never been done before, Dworkin was still trying to find a way to stabilise his explosions and Thedosians (with the exception of the Qunari) seem to have a very limited grasp on explosives. I don't think most Thedosians even know how to make gunpowder. But Anders was in a rather unique position to learn something from Dworkin, who subsequently went into hiding from the Qunari.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Banxey2 wrote...

Anyway, I hope you don't mind me jumping in. But while I don't know if I agree with every one of Leaguer's points, I do think what he is getting at makes sense. If you consider that the sela petrae and drakestone are saltpetre and sulfer, in the quantity Anders has it wouldn't make a very powerful bomb. But it would make for a decent ignition system along with some lyrium dust to act as a fuse. Anders could have learnt all this from Dworkin while he was at Vigil's Keep. Dworkin seemed fairly crazed about his experiments, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think Anders might have spoken to him, or heard him speaking about it.

Assuming there is some form of ignition system, there would need to be fuel. And as LDS pointed out, the Chantry likely stores lyrium. There is even evidence to suggest this is true.

What processed lyrium is sold on the surface goes only to the Chantry, who strictly control the supply. From the Chantry, it is dispensed both to the templars, who make use of it in tracking and fighting maleficarum, and to the Circle.

 
If this creates a bomb, it's a bomb powered by a quantity of a substance that is more or less a pure form of magic. It would then create an explosion of "magic" which naturally looks magical. 

As for why it has never been done before, Dworkin was still trying to find a way to stabilise his explosions and Thedosians (with the exception of the Qunari) seem to have a very limited grasp on explosives. I don't think most Thedosians even know how to make gunpowder. But Anders was in a rather unique position to learn something from Dworkin, who subsequently went into hiding from the Qunari.

I completely forgot about our friendly explomaniac Dworkin. That does answer quite a few things like where Anders actually learned the formula and goes along with the Javaris quote I posted earlier about how a lyrium explosive goes, including some parts that match the explosion at the Chantry. Good job Banxey.

[DKJaigen]

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The Circle has some of it, just not most of it. If they need more thana monthly ration for example, they would go to the Chantry for it.

So in otherwords, you're just making things up. You don't actually know, you're just making up things to explain how Anders blew up the Chantry. 

You think they are just going to put all the lyrium in the circle with people who will abuse it and the only thing that can stop them are prists who have no battle experiance?

Its called the city guard or even the regular armies may intervene. Also its great PR when people see templars looting the chantry.

[Dean_the_Young]

Banxey2 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MAGES CAN ENCHANT STUFF TOO!!!!!

You're drunk Eluvian.  Enchantments are just a figment of your imagination.  They don't exist.

Enchantments are powered by lyrium, not mages. Dwarves do enchantments, and there are no dwarven mages. Tranquil do enchantments and they can't cast spells at all. All enchantment is is folding lyrium runes into weapons and armor, the rune making up the spell and power of it, and the lyrium providing the power for it. 

Also, the stronger a mage's connection to the fade, the more dangerous handling lyrium is. Which is why enchanting is mostly done by dwarves and tranquil. And considering Anders has a fade spirit inside of him, I don't think it would be a great idea for him to take up enchanting any time soon.

Anyway, I hope you don't mind me jumping in. But while I don't know if I agree with every one of Leaguer's points, I do think what he is getting at makes sense. If you consider that the sela petrae and drakestone are saltpetre and sulfer, in the quantity Anders has it wouldn't make a very powerful bomb. But it would make for a decent ignition system along with some lyrium dust to act as a fuse. Anders could have learnt all this from Dworkin while he was at Vigil's Keep. Dworkin seemed fairly crazed about his experiments, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think Anders might have spoken to him, or heard him speaking about it.

Assuming there is some form of ignition system, there would need to be fuel. And as LDS pointed out, the Chantry likely stores lyrium. There is even evidence to suggest this is true.

What processed lyrium is sold on the surface goes only to the Chantry, who strictly control the supply. From the Chantry, it is dispensed both to the templars, who make use of it in tracking and fighting maleficarum, and to the Circle.

 
If this creates a bomb, it's a bomb powered by a quantity of a substance that is more or less a pure form of magic. It would then create an explosion of "magic" which naturally looks magical. 

As for why it has never been done before, Dworkin was still trying to find a way to stabilise his explosions and Thedosians (with the exception of the Qunari) seem to have a very limited grasp on explosives. I don't think most Thedosians even know how to make gunpowder. But Anders was in a rather unique position to learn something from Dworkin, who subsequently went into hiding from the Qunari.

I just caution against the attempt to portray Anders formula as chemistry, rather than magic. In Dragon Age, magic is as much about form as composition: the design of runes and magical lines, the steps and order of incantination, and so on.

Saying Anders doesn't have the amounts of a substance to serve as an explosive unless we have lots of lyrium boomdust around to do the heavy booming is trying to apply chemistry to magic. Anders' ritual and process doesn't need to follow chemistry's laws of energy conservation and force: the magic can simply be the catalyst for expanding and channeling the explosion, rather than the other way around.

[Lotion Soronarr]

leaguer of one wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

Also, there are buildings damaged by the shockwave that shoots out from the explosion.

And yes, I think destroying one of the largest buildings in Kirkwall to be a healthy portion of the city. And since that is entirely an opinion and not a fact, I am correct in holding it.

Fire in some of the building does not equal to a health portion of kirkwall. Sorry, most of the debre did not even hit the city. There would be giant craters and hordes of broken down building if it did.. We just have th one.

We literally see large pieces flying off to the sides.

We see fires just a few seconds after that - long before Meredith calls for the templars.


The idea that you destroy a massive building in the middle of a city and that it won't damage nearby buildings or hurt anyone is laughable.

I'm quite sure when the WTC was destroyed there was absolutely NO DAMAGE whatsoever to sorounding buildings. No casualites.

[Star fury]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

World of thedas, Page 107, Blood magic

"...All blood mages who use their own blood will eventually find themselves tempted by the additional power to be gained from spilling the blood of others."

There is no counter to this claim made in the book, and the section goes further to explain how even in the tevinter imperium, blood magic is frowned upon and highly taboo. A magister in the section "Responsible Blood Magic" even beratting her student and going in depth into how each idolized blood mage has in some way been either overly glorified or whose actions had horrid consequences.

I don't understand how one can draw a conclusion from that quote that the blood magic has "a degenerative effect on the mind".

[leaguer of one]

DKJaigen wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The Circle has some of it, just not most of it. If they need more thana monthly ration for example, they would go to the Chantry for it.

So in otherwords, you're just making things up. You don't actually know, you're just making up things to explain how Anders blew up the Chantry. 

You think they are just going to put all the lyrium in the circle with people who will abuse it and the only thing that can stop them are prists who have no battle experiance?

Its called the city guard or even the regular armies may intervene. Also its great PR when people see templars looting the chantry.

City guard? BS. There is not on in the gallows. Not even ones in the fereldin circle.  Sorry, but it makes no sease to hold the majority of the lyrium in the circle.

[leaguer of one]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

Also, there are buildings damaged by the shockwave that shoots out from the explosion.

And yes, I think destroying one of the largest buildings in Kirkwall to be a healthy portion of the city. And since that is entirely an opinion and not a fact, I am correct in holding it.

Fire in some of the building does not equal to a health portion of kirkwall. Sorry, most of the debre did not even hit the city. There would be giant craters and hordes of broken down building if it did.. We just have th one.

We literally see large pieces flying off to the sides.

We see fires just a few seconds after that - long before Meredith calls for the templars.


The idea that you destroy a massive building in the middle of a city and that it won't damage nearby buildings or hurt anyone is laughable.

I'm quite sure when the WTC was destroyed there was absolutely NO DAMAGE whatsoever to sorounding buildings. No casualites.

Who says it won't damage the building near by? I just said it did not damage a health portion of the city. Damage was done but not in the ammount being argued on.

[EmperorSahlertz]

leaguer of one wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The Circle has some of it, just not most of it. If they need more thana monthly ration for example, they would go to the Chantry for it.

So in otherwords, you're just making things up. You don't actually know, you're just making up things to explain how Anders blew up the Chantry. 

You think they are just going to put all the lyrium in the circle with people who will abuse it and the only thing that can stop them are prists who have no battle experiance?

Its called the city guard or even the regular armies may intervene. Also its great PR when people see templars looting the chantry.

City guard? BS. There is not on in the gallows. Not even ones in the fereldin circle.  Sorry, but it makes no sease to hold the majority of the lyrium in the circle.

There is a merchant in DA2 trying to deliver a shipment of Lyrium to the Gallows.... Soooo.... Yeah....

[leaguer of one]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The Circle has some of it, just not most of it. If they need more thana monthly ration for example, they would go to the Chantry for it.

So in otherwords, you're just making things up. You don't actually know, you're just making up things to explain how Anders blew up the Chantry. 

You think they are just going to put all the lyrium in the circle with people who will abuse it and the only thing that can stop them are prists who have no battle experiance?

Its called the city guard or even the regular armies may intervene. Also its great PR when people see templars looting the chantry.

City guard? BS. There is not on in the gallows. Not even ones in the fereldin circle.  Sorry, but it makes no sease to hold the majority of the lyrium in the circle.

There is a merchant in DA2 trying to deliver a shipment of Lyrium to the Gallows.... Soooo.... Yeah....

You don't understand the difference between transport and storage? That does not mean the majority of the lyrium is in the circle. Ofcousre they eventually have to transport some to the circle. Not all of it.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 23 février 2014 - 05:32 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

leaguer of one wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The Circle has some of it, just not most of it. If they need more thana monthly ration for example, they would go to the Chantry for it.

So in otherwords, you're just making things up. You don't actually know, you're just making up things to explain how Anders blew up the Chantry. 

You think they are just going to put all the lyrium in the circle with people who will abuse it and the only thing that can stop them are prists who have no battle experiance?

Its called the city guard or even the regular armies may intervene. Also its great PR when people see templars looting the chantry.

City guard? BS. There is not on in the gallows. Not even ones in the fereldin circle.  Sorry, but it makes no sease to hold the majority of the lyrium in the circle.

There is a merchant in DA2 trying to deliver a shipment of Lyrium to the Gallows.... Soooo.... Yeah....

You don't understand the difference between transport and storage? That does not mean the majority of the lyrium is in the circle. Ofcousre they eventually have to transport some to the circle. Not all of it.

The majority of all the Lyrium is going to be used at the Circle, becase the majority of Templars are stationed there, and all the mages who uses the Lyrium are there. So OBVIOSULY most of the Lyrium is going to be stored at the Circle, and a fraction of it is going to be sent to the Chantries and other garrisons which houses Templars.

[Banxey]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
I completely forgot about our friendly explomaniac Dworkin. That does answer quite a few things like where Anders actually learned the formula and goes along with the Javaris quote I posted earlier about how a lyrium explosive goes, including some parts that match the explosion at the Chantry. Good job Banxey.

Thanks.  I would have forgot Dworkin too, but I recently looked up the epilogues for Awakenings looking for info on Justice. 

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Banxey2 wrote...

Anyway, I hope you don't mind me jumping in. But while I don't know if I agree with every one of Leaguer's points, I do think what he is getting at makes sense. If you consider that the sela petrae and drakestone are saltpetre and sulfer, in the quantity Anders has it wouldn't make a very powerful bomb. But it would make for a decent ignition system along with some lyrium dust to act as a fuse. Anders could have learnt all this from Dworkin while he was at Vigil's Keep. Dworkin seemed fairly crazed about his experiments, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think Anders might have spoken to him, or heard him speaking about it.

Assuming there is some form of ignition system, there would need to be fuel. And as LDS pointed out, the Chantry likely stores lyrium. There is even evidence to suggest this is true.

What processed lyrium is sold on the surface goes only to the Chantry, who strictly control the supply. From the Chantry, it is dispensed both to the templars, who make use of it in tracking and fighting maleficarum, and to the Circle.

 
If this creates a bomb, it's a bomb powered by a quantity of a substance that is more or less a pure form of magic. It would then create an explosion of "magic" which naturally looks magical. 

As for why it has never been done before, Dworkin was still trying to find a way to stabilise his explosions and Thedosians (with the exception of the Qunari) seem to have a very limited grasp on explosives. I don't think most Thedosians even know how to make gunpowder. But Anders was in a rather unique position to learn something from Dworkin, who subsequently went into hiding from the Qunari.

I just caution against the attempt to portray Anders formula as chemistry, rather than magic. In Dragon Age, magic is as much about form as composition: the design of runes and magical lines, the steps and order of incantination, and so on.

Saying Anders doesn't have the amounts of a substance to serve as an explosive unless we have lots of lyrium boomdust around to do the heavy booming is trying to apply chemistry to magic. Anders' ritual and process doesn't need to follow chemistry's laws of energy conservation and force: the magic can simply be the catalyst for expanding and channeling the explosion, rather than the other way around.

That's a fair point as we don't  know how even Dworkin's lyrium grenades are constructed. He did seem to say that the lyrium was what gave it it's "boom". But it never specified how exactly. I just attributed the explosion to the lyrium because of the way it looked. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Star fury wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

World of thedas, Page 107, Blood magic

"...All blood mages who use their own blood will eventually find themselves tempted by the additional power to be gained from spilling the blood of others."

There is no counter to this claim made in the book, and the section goes further to explain how even in the tevinter imperium, blood magic is frowned upon and highly taboo. A magister in the section "Responsible Blood Magic" even beratting her student and going in depth into how each idolized blood mage has in some way been either overly glorified or whose actions had horrid consequences.

I don't understand how one can draw a conclusion from that quote that the blood magic has "a degenerative effect on the mind".

You know what? I already explained this 3 times. All three times you ignore what I mean by "degenerative effect" and just go on acting like I haven't said anything. This little game of semantics is pointless, you already lost, good day.

[Pasquale1234]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The majority of all the Lyrium is going to be used at the Circle, becase the majority of Templars are stationed there, and all the mages who uses the Lyrium are there. So OBVIOSULY most of the Lyrium is going to be stored at the Circle, and a fraction of it is going to be sent to the Chantries and other garrisons which houses Templars.

Another group that uses lyrium is the tranquil who do enchanting.  They may or may not actually reside in the Circle - as I understand it, tranquils are free to leave the Circle if they so desire.  Whether they would be allowed to possess lyrium to do enchanting is not something I've ever seen stated in the lore.