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[Hanako Ikezawa]

Erm Fenris stated point blank he had seen/heard of uses of the rite within the Imperium as he put "The line is in a different place but it is there" And Demonolgy is a debatable school given it's utter condemnation outside of Tveinter but i must admit that you do have Mages within Tveinter capable of sundering the veil and calling forth spirits to obey them if they are strong enough of will to command them.

 

So those Abominations as you put it would be obliterated the moment they became a threat to the Imperium which would be relatively quick considering rogue demons are a matter of state security.

Agreed, except some of them aren't rogue. We have seen that magisters can control at least the weaker demons, and yet these magisters are protected by their position and yet the world keeps spinning. I'm only countering TKS' statements that if a mage was allowed to do this, it would be the end of the world when it isn't even the end of Tevinter.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What a naive mindset do you rly think that magisters care about other mages because they are mages it is like saying that human noble will care about another human noble... i can see rather magisters as self-centred and self-serving rather than being pro-mage and i doubt that guys would have problems with kiling mage or non-mage for own benefit... 

 

I can see them hunting abomnations and even weak mages ruthlessly just for own safety... so thats probably reason why world is whole...

No, I do not think that the people who endorse and participate in slavery care about other people, including mages. Tevinter operates as basically Social Darwinism personified.

[Master Warder Z_]

Agreed, except some of them aren't rogue. We have seen that magisters can control at least the weaker demons, and yet these magisters are protected by their position and yet the world keeps spinning. I'm only countering TKS' statements that if a mage was allowed to do this, it would be the end of the world when it isn't even the end of Tevinter.

 

They would be rogue the moment they possessed a mage considering that would be a threat even the Imperium couldn't ignore and i'd point out to you that if the Imperium actually had your mindset that you think they do on this issue then it would rapidly be the end of Tveinter given that a society filled with rampaging abominations would rapidly crumble inward.

[durasteel]

The Very post you were quoting when i stated that? 

There were no baseless assumptions in my post. In fact, there were no assumptions whatsoever other than that the Keeper's First would have full access to whatever lore a clan had. 

[wcholcombe]

I don't think many in either group (who agree with the mage or templar arguments) are going to be dissuaded simply because of a particular character, although I doubt many pro-mages think that Tevinter should be emulated.

 

I suspect that Cullen might be a likely templar companion in Inquisition. A Tevinter templar wouldn't have the same capabilties against mages that a templar from the Andrastian kingdoms would (since they are basically soldiers).

Tevinter Templars still have the same powers as regular Templars is my understanding.  As Fenris says they are still used to police mages  when mages go to far.  Wouldn't be much use as a force against renegade mages if they were just soldiers?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Agreed, except some of them aren't rogue. We have seen that magisters can control at least the weaker demons, and yet these magisters are protected by their position and yet the world keeps spinning. I'm only countering TKS' statements that if a mage was allowed to do this, it would be the end of the world when it isn't even the end of Tevinter.

 

Yep and what tevinter shows us this is blackest country in thedas followed by orlais that can't cause end of the world... 

Simple i can see that numbers of disasters in tevinter is bigger than in rest of thedas because of that and they deal with mages no better than chantry i would even say they methods can be worse... 

 

So point is that even some magisters know that dealing with mages should be treated ruthlessly they just don't want to belong to them...

 

So yep it would end of the world unless most competent mages would take tevinter methods and still damage caused by mages and now it is hefty outside tevinter would be in pro-mage country doubled... with bigger risk of end of the world...

[Gwydden]

While I initially misunderstood what you meant when you said "another Tevinter", I still think that won't be the case. We know that Tevinter is not sustainable, and the Seekers/Templars don't have the means to create or support something of that scope.

If it isn't sustainable why is it the oldest nation in modern Thedas?

[LobselVith8]

Tevinter Templars still have the same powers as regular Templars is my understanding.  As Fenris says they are still used to police mages  when mages go to far.  Wouldn't be much use as a force against renegade mages if they were just soldiers?

 

The developers said they don't possess the magic-nulifying talents of their Andrastian counterparts. Gaider said: "There are indeed Imperial templars. Their primary role is to enforce magical law, and since they are part of the Chantry-- which is controlled by the Circle-- they are thus controlled by the mages. The majority of Imperial templars, however, lack the ability to counter magic. They are primarily soldiers."

[Master Warder Z_]

There were no baseless assumptions in my post. In fact, there were no assumptions whatsoever other than that the Keeper's First would have full access to whatever lore a clan had. 

 

The assumption the Clan even had access to said Lore was what i meant you realize?

[Gwydden]

The developers said they don't possess the magic-nulifying talents of their Andrastian counterparts.

Still, they are a military force, and the magisters use them as such. I would expect them to be kind of like the Grey Wardens, chosen among the best warriors. Considering Fenris, a few of the most trusted ones could have standard Templar talents or similar magic specializations.

[Master Warder Z_]

If it isn't sustainable why is it the oldest nation in modern Thedas?

 

It's been on a downward spiral since before the first blight you realize?

 

It's time is closing fairly rapidly if the Mages don't reduce it to cinders then either White Thedas or the Qunari will.

 

It's too universally despised,Has to many enemies, Lacks the means to sustain it self to linger much longer.

 

A Century at most is the timetable i give the Imperium unless drastic historical events occur.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They would be rogue the moment they possessed a mage considering that would be a threat even the Imperium couldn't ignore and i'd point out to you that if the Imperium actually had your mindset that you think they do on this issue then it would rapidly be the end of Tveinter given that a society filled with rampaging abominations would rapidly crumble inward.

But you admit that as long as a demon appears leashed, they are allowed to keep their pet. Yet a demon needs a host to survive outside the Fade or be reduced to a wisp, so I ask what do you suppose they do to fix that problem? Well, we know they have no problem sacrificing slaves for blood magic boosts so why not use slaves as the demon' pen. I will agree that they probably use nonmage slaves to reduce the demon's power, but an abomination is an abomination until we get a new term for possessed nonmages. 

[Mihura]

While I initially misunderstood what you meant when you said "another Tevinter", I still think that won't be the case. We know that Tevinter is not sustainable, and the Seekers/Templars don't have the means to create or support something of that scope.

 

Another Tevinter as in, almost no control over Mages, like a puppet Chantry. Or even no Chantry at all, a new Order even.

 

I really think that the extremes you see with red templars are clues to that. Something dramatic is probably going to happen, to contain the Mage rebellion and it is going to change the way things are done. It remains to be seen if that will be progress or not. It probably going to end badly for both sides in my opinion.

 

Either way the system as it was is dead and the Inquisitor is probably going to be a mere pawn. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's been on a downward spiral since before the first blight you realize?

 

It's time is closing fairly rapidly if the Mages don't reduce it to cinders then either White Thedas or the Qunari will.

 

It's too universally despised,Has to many enemies, Lacks the means to sustain it self to linger much longer.

 

A Century at most is the timetable i give the Imperium unless drastic historical events occur.

Well, if we visit it in the next game, I'm hoping it will last much less than that since that horrid institution of their government needs to be torn down to the ground.

[Gwydden]

Well, if we visit it in the next game, I'm hoping it will last much less than that since that horrid institution of their government needs to be torn down to the ground.

Tevinter has seen best days, and I agree that it will not last much longer as it is now. It's too old, too stagnant. But it cannot be called unsustainable because if it was it wouldn't have been able to last for what, four thousand years? Also, we haven't heard anything from Tevinter to make it sound that much worse than Orlais or the Qunari.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Tevinter has seen best days, and I agree that it will not last much longer as it is now. It's too old, too stagnant. But it cannot be called unsustainable because if it was it wouldn't have been able to last for what, four thousand years? Also, we haven't heard anything from Tevinter to make it sound that much worse than Orlais or the Qunari.

Well, it endorses and in fact relishes in slavery and human sacrifice, so those two reasons are pretty good at setting it as the worst. The slavery thing can be argued since other nations have it as well but kept within the nobility, but I have yet to here a nation that sacrifices innocent people for a power boost.

[renfrees]

I would like to believe Merrill is not stupid enough to actually mess with the prison itself or anything close to it.

Merril was intending to release Audacity and asked Hawke to come along in case she becomes possessed, to be killed. Its in the game if you choose aggressive options, i see no reasons to coddle her about this idea.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, it endorses and in fact relishes in slavery and human sacrifice, so those two reasons are pretty good at setting it as the worst. The slavery thing can be argued since other nations have it as well but kept within the nobility, but I have yet to here a nation that sacrifices innocent people for a power boost.

 

It's called Serfdom my boy.

 

And its a fine noble Feudalistic Tradition dating back centuries and centuries within our own reality.

 

It's differing from both indentured servitude and Slavery in three regards; I will explain the more crucial.

 

Within Serfdom you can raise above it, while you, your parents and parent's parents may be stuff crop picking on lord such and such's farm. Say you get called as a levy when the lord rides to war, you survive and get renown and you likely would be honored with a noble title, Knighthood or riches or all of the above.

 

It's the way quite a few dynasties started back in the good old days, ironically enough? It existed alongside slavery for most of its existence in our reality. Major difference between serf's and slaves, For one Serfs can own private property, are paid a wage and etc.

[Gwydden]

Well, it endorses and in fact relishes in slavery and human sacrifice, so those two reasons are pretty good at setting it as the worst. The slavery thing can be argued since other nations have it as well but kept within the nobility, but I have yet to here a nation that sacrifices innocent people for a power boost.

The Aztecs? They didn't even get a material benefit out of it, mind you. And they aren't even the only example, just the most known. Human sacrifices have been practiced by plenty of cultures just to please gods they didn't even see. Compared to that, Tevinter sacrificing slaves and obtaining and actual reward for it hardly seems scandalous.

 

You can't judge societies that are wildly different to yours by your moral standards.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's called Serfdom my boy.

 

And its a fine noble Feudalistic Tradition dating back centuries and centuries within our own reality.

 

It's differing from both indentured servitude and Slavery in three regards; I will explain the more crucial.

 

Within Serfdom you can raise above it, while you, your parents and parent's parents may be stuff crop picking on lord such and such's farm. Say you get called as a levy when the lord rides to war, you survive and get renown and you likely would be honored with a noble title, Knighthood or riches or all of the above.

 

It's the way quite a few dynasties started back in the good old days, ironically enough? It existed alongside slavery for most of its existence in our reality. Major difference between serf's and slaves, For one Serfs can own private property, are paid a wage and etc.

I was more referring to how Orlais nobility owns Elven slaves, such as Fiona. 

[Gwydden]

It's called Serfdom my boy.

 

And its a fine noble Feudalistic Tradition dating back centuries and centuries within our own reality.

 

It's differing from both indentured servitude and Slavery in three regards; I will explain the more crucial.

 

Within Serfdom you can raise above it, while you, your parents and parent's parents may be stuff crop picking on lord such and such's farm. Say you get called as a levy when the lord rides to war, you survive and get renown and you likely would be honored with a noble title, Knighthood or riches or all of the above.

 

It's the way quite a few dynasties started back in the good old days, ironically enough? It existed alongside slavery for most of its existence in our reality. Major difference between serf's and slaves, For one Serfs can own private property, are paid a wage and etc.

Slaves could also be set free by their masters and become slave owners themselves in many cultures where they existed.

 

EDIT: I just realised this is my 666th post...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Aztecs? They didn't even get a material benefit out of it, mind you. And they aren't even the only example, just the most known. Human sacrifices have been practiced by plenty of cultures just to please gods they didn't even see. Compared to that, Tevinter sacrificing slaves and obtaining and actual reward for it hardly seems scandalous.

 

You can't judge societies that are wildly different to yours by your moral standards.

I mean a culture in Thedas. On Earth, cultures with human sacrifice were numerous, especially in ancient times.

[LobselVith8]

Merril was intending to release Audacity and asked Hawke to come along in case she becomes possessed, to be killed. Its in the game if you choose aggressive options, i see no reasons to coddle her about this idea.

 

Merrill tells an aggressive Hawke she won't release Audacity; she wanted to speak to Audacity. Speaking about blood mages, I'd really like to see more representations of blood mages in Inquisition, beyond the typical insane lunatics from Kirkwall that seemed as though they escaped from Arkham Asylum. I think reactivity towards blood magic would be interesting, given the negative view Andrastians hold on the forbidden school of magic. Although the recent news about the specializations makes me suspect that there won't be any reactivity towards a blood mage protagonist, which is unfortunate.

[Master Warder Z_]

I was more referring to how Orlais nobility owns Elven slaves, such as Fiona. 

 

Oh...Why would people care about that?

 

The Elves aren't people ._.

[The Baconer]

Say you get called as a levy when the lord rides to war, you survive and get renown and you likely would be honored with a noble title, Knighthood or riches or all of the above.

 

For surviving? Pretty much no chance of that happening.