8640 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Well lets see- Demons falling from the sky, general chaos broken out, large portions of leadership in The Chantry, Templar Order, and Mages being wiped out in a disaster of some sort, Open Rebellion in several countries, "Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria", in other words people are a little more concerned about staying alive than they are some of their petty racial discords.  Which if you view things historically there are quite a few examples of groups with extreme culture or dogmatic differences banding together for mutual survival.

 

Plus, there is that image that most people believe is the Divine annointing the PC as Inquisitor.

 

So while there will be issues, I don't think that just because someone is Andrastrian, means they are automatically going to be a total non human hating non adrastrian hating piece of trash.  Heck they didn't even kill Sten outright when he murdered people in DAO and he is both non human and a religion that is exremely anti Andrastrian. 

 

Oh yeah, DROP THE FRICKIN MERRIL DEBATE, THE HORSE IS DEAD, DECOMPOSED, REINCARNATED, DEAD AGAIN, AND PROBABLY FOSSILIZED BY NOW!

 

There are also examples of racism and prejudice still existing in times of war and strife, so the idea of everyone being blind to the idea of a Dwarven, Vashoth, ex-Circle mage, or Dalish Inquisitor is still jarring for me. That's simply how I view it.

 

Also, I don't see why the Inquisitor would have a coronation by the Divine (unless the protagonist sided with the Chantry), since the developers said we wouldn't be forced to work for the Chantry, and there has been mention that the Inquisition is created "in opposition" to the Chantry.

 

Last but not least, I didn't mention Merrill in my post.

[Master Warder Z_]

Last but not least, I didn't mention Merrill in my post.

 

o-o you mentioned her repeatedly in just a few posts back though.

 

I know because they were directed to me.

[LobselVith8]

o-o you mentioned her repeatedly in just a few posts back though.

 

I know because they were directed to me.

 

You mean the discussion that took place yesterday, where you and I discussed the issue?

[wcholcombe]

There are also examples of racism and prejudice still existing in times of war and strife, so the idea of everyone being blind to the idea of a Dwarven, Vashoth, ex-Circle mage, or Dalish Inquisitor is still jarring for me. That's simply how I view it.

 

Also, I don't see why the Inquisitor would have a coronation by the Divine (unless the protagonist sided with the Chantry), since the developers said we wouldn't be forced to work for the Chantry, and there has been mention that the Inquisition is created "in opposition" to the Chantry.

 

Last but not least, I didn't mention Merrill in my post.

Sorry Lob, the Merril comment wasn't directed at you.

 

I don't doubt there will still be prejudice, but I also don't expect everyone to be a racist ****** just because they are Andrastrian and you aren't human or Andrastrian.  There will be resentment yes, but it isn't like you went around in DAO and they broke out the torches and pitch forks everytime some uppity dwarf or Elven Grey Warden road into town and thought he was as good as a human.  Yes, there will hopefully be groups that are entirely against you based on your race, but not all and not necessarily the Chantry either.

 

I would be interested to see where the Devs have said you could be anti Chantry?  I imagine a fair amount of possibilities for gameplay in DAI, I do not forsee a case where you can do any of the following- 1) Defeat the Qunari 2) Destory Orlais 3) Conquer the Imperium 4)Unite the White and Black Chantry 5) Defeat/destroy/significantly weaken the Chantry in Thedas.

 

Those are just based off ideas that people were jumping on early on, but I will say that 5 is the one I am most certain of.  I can see the Chantry possibly opposing you early on based on the stance you take, but I predict they become your ally soon enough.  I don't see either Liliana or Penderghast following an Inquisitor who makes war on the Chantry.

[Master Warder Z_]

You mean the discussion that took place yesterday, where you and I discussed the issue?

 

No just a handful of posts ago ._.

 

The beneficial blood mage user.

[LobselVith8]

Sorry Lob, the Merril comment wasn't directed at you.

 

I don't doubt there will still be prejudice, but I also don't expect everyone to be a racist ****** just because they are Andrastrian and you aren't human or Andrastrian.  There will be resentment yes, but it isn't like you went around in DAO and they broke out the torches and pitch forks everytime some uppity dwarf or Elven Grey Warden road into town and thought he was as good as a human.  Yes, there will hopefully be groups that are entirely against you based on your race, but not all and not necessarily the Chantry either.

 

I would be interested to see where the Devs have said you could be anti Chantry?  I imagine a fair amount of possibilities for gameplay in DAI, I do not forsee a case where you can do any of the following- 1) Defeat the Qunari 2) Destory Orlais 3) Conquer the Imperium 4)Unite the White and Black Chantry 5) Defeat/destroy/significantly weaken the Chantry in Thedas.

 

Those are just based off ideas that people were jumping on early on, but I will say that 5 is the one I am most certain of.  I can see the Chantry possibly opposing you early on based on the stance you take, but I predict they become your ally soon enough.  I don't see either Liliana or Penderghast following an Inquisitor who makes war on the Chantry.

 

De nada. It's no problem.

 

I admit, I'm curious to see how the race of the protagonist will be handled in Inquisition. I agree with Xil that I think it's not plausible for them to handle it in a manageable way, but I hope it's addressed.

 

Regarding the Inquisitor and the Chantry, it was said that the Inquisitor won't be forced to work for the Chantry or the templars, and it was later said (in one of the Inquisition videos) that the Inquisition is created "in opposition" to the Chantry.

 

To be more precise, after the atheist threads and the many debates about atheism and the Chantry, Gaider said: "You aren't going to be forced to serve the Chantry or even think it's a good thing. You aren't forced to express belief in the Maker. I said previously we would try to allow options to actively express doubt, if that's your thing, so long as it works in context. You of course will also have the option to do the opposite."

 

As for the Inquisition being created "in opposition" to the Chantry, it was mentioned by Mark Darrah.

[wcholcombe]

De nada. It's no problem.

 

I admit, I'm curious to see how the race of the protagonist will be handled in Inquisition. I agree with Xil that I think it's not plausible for them to handle it in a manageable way, but I hope it's addressed.

 

Regarding the Inquisitor and the Chantry, it was said that the Inquisitor won't be forced to work for the Chantry or the templars, and it was later said (in one of the Inquisition videos) that the Inquisition is created "in opposition" to the Chantry.

 

To be more precise, after the atheist threads and the many debates about atheism and the Chantry, Gaider said: "You aren't going to be forced to serve the Chantry or even think it's a good thing. You aren't forced to express belief in the Maker. I said previously we would try to allow options to actively express doubt, if that's your thing, so long as it works in context. You of course will also have the option to do the opposite."

 

As for the Inquisition being created "in opposition" to the Chantry, it was mentioned by Mark Darrah.

ok, yeah I had seen that. I think it would come down to arguing semantics at this point, so it really isn't worth it, but I always took that video to be meaning that you aren't in service to the Chantry, so to a degree you are opposed to it, but as he said you can earn the respect of other organizations.  Yes the Chantry doesn't create the Inquisition, but I see it eventually siding with them in some way, even if it is do what you need to do to fix this, we won't hinder your efforts.  With the political pragmatism Justina has shown in Asunder, I would very much see her taking a turn a blind eye to the inquisition so they can do what needs doing, provided she is still alive when the inquisition is formed...

 

Again though, I don't see Penderghast or Liliana serving an inquisition that basically makes war on the Chantry.

[renfrees]

While we're at it, i honestly have no idea how Bioware intend to make Qunari Inquisitor realistic, considering all the lore and history between them and the rest of Thedas's nations.

[LobselVith8]

No just a handful of posts ago ._.

 

The beneficial blood mage user.

 

That was a different thread, and that 'beneficial' line was in response to your post, where you brought her up as a retort to my post about how the Dalish view magic as a gift of the Creators.

 

While we're at it, i honestly have no idea how Bioware intend to make Qunari Inquisitor realistic, considering all the lore and history between them and the rest of Thedas's nations.

 

The developers said the protagonist will be Vashoth, rather than a Qunari Inquisitor, due to the difficulty of making a main character who follows the Qun.

[TheKomandorShepard]

ok, yeah I had seen that. I think it would come down to arguing semantics at this point, so it really isn't worth it, but I always took that video to be meaning that you aren't in service to the Chantry, so to a degree you are opposed to it, but as he said you can earn the respect of other organizations.  Yes the Chantry doesn't create the Inquisition, but I see it eventually siding with them in some way, even if it is do what you need to do to fix this, we won't hinder your efforts.  With the political pragmatism Justina has shown in Asunder, I would very much see her taking a turn a blind eye to the inquisition so they can do what needs doing, provided she is still alive when the inquisition is formed...

 

Again though, I don't see Penderghast or Liliana serving an inquisition that basically makes war on the Chantry.

 

 

Political pragmatism lol dude she let escape walking bombs that spread chaos and destruction after they lost causing world war and was left with nothing because side who she had helped said screw you and said that she opposed left her as she betrayed them... this woman is dumb and now she is crying for powerful supporters because she made big mess...

[renfrees]

 

 

That was a different thread, and that 'beneficial' line was in response to your post, where you brought her up as a retort to my post about how the Dalish view magic as a gift of the Creators.

 

 

The developers said the protagonist will be Vashoth, rather than a Qunari Inquisitor, due to the difficulty of making a main character who follows the Qun.

 

Yes i know, but there is a thin line between companion like Sten (we had plenty of freaks to follow us in both games), and a leader/protagonist, whom the kings, rulers and mob would listen instead of fear.

[Master Warder Z_]

 

 

That was a different thread, and that 'beneficial' line was in response to your post, where you brought her up as a retort to my post about how the Dalish view magic as a gift of the Creators.

 

 

The developers said the protagonist will be Vashoth, rather than a Qunari Inquisitor, due to the difficulty of making a main character who follows the Qun.

 

 

Semantics

[LobselVith8]

Yes i know, but there is a thin line between companion like Sten (we had plenty of freaks to follow us in both games), and a leader/protagonist, whom the kings, rulers and mob would listen instead of fear.

 

It does need to be addressed in the narrative, since I also see an issue with a Dalish, a free Circle mage, or an elven Inquisitor gaining power as well. The developers did address it would be difficult, and that the Vashoth protagonist would have tremendous adversity due to the 'Qunari' aspect.

[wcholcombe]

 

Political pragmatism lol dude she let escape walking bombs that spread chaos and destruction after they lost causing world war and was left with nothing because side who she had helped said screw you and said that she opposed left her as she betrayed them... this woman is dumb and now she is crying for powerful supporters because she made big mess...

Hey she made her play. I personally think that with the state of Mage V Templar relations that outcome would have happened anyway. If certain parties had made any attempt at all to play nice--Adrian, Fiona, Lambert, heck Meredith and Orsino in Kirkwall- her role of the dice might have worked.  She was facing reality that the Templars had become too hard line.  If the Knight Commander in Orlais had been left in command instead of Lambert it might have worked, if Adrian and Fiona could have acted like something other than spoiled children who had to have what they wanted now, if Lambert could have allowed for the possiblity of him being manipulated and there being another possibility it might have worked.  Her play failed because the very people she was trying to help betrayed her.  If Wynne had been in fiona's position things would have gone much differently.  But alas that didn't happen.  Hey, I give the girl credit for standing up and deciding a new direction was needed in the Templar/Mage question, and political pragmantism meant she was smart enough to let it start happening without everyone realizing what she was trying to achieve.

 

Yes i know, but there is a thin line between companion like Sten (we had plenty of freaks to follow us in both games), and a leader/protagonist, whom the kings, rulers and mob would listen instead of fear.

Demons trying to possess and devour your children can kind of help you listen to anyone who has the ability to stand between those you hold dear and those who want to turn them into inside out human suits.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Hey she made her play. I personally think that with the state of Mage V Templar relations that outcome would have happened anyway. If certain parties had made any attempt at all to play nice--Adrian, Fiona, Lambert, heck Meredith and Orsino in Kirkwall- her role of the dice might have worked.  She was facing reality that the Templars had become too hard line.  If the Knight Commander in Orlais had been left in command instead of Lambert it might have worked, if Adrian and Fiona could have acted like something other than spoiled children who had to have what they wanted now, if Lambert could have allowed for the possiblity of him being manipulated and there being another possibility it might have worked.  Her play failed because the very people she was trying to help betrayed her.  If Wynne had been in fiona's position things would have gone much differently.  But alas that didn't happen.  Hey, I give the girl credit for standing up and deciding a new direction was needed in the Templar/Mage question, and political pragmantism meant she was smart enough to let it start happening without everyone realizing what she was trying to achieve.

 

Demons trying to possess and devour your children can kind of help you listen to anyone who has the ability to stand between those you hold dear and those who want to turn them into inside out human suits.

 

Templars had everything in control thanks to lambert he won then divine betrayed him and let walking bomb escape causing world war as i said lambert was right about mages and situation would be in control if divine let it be then she send leliana to kill templars and free mages which ended as any sane person would predict loosing templars support and not gaining mages support... She did it to herself and final nail for mage-templar war...

 

She lost and is desperate because she was naive as lambert said and he was right...

[wcholcombe]

It does need to be addressed in the narrative, since I also see an issue with a Dalish, a free Circle mage, or an elven Inquisitor gaining power as well. The developers did address it would be difficult, and that the Vashoth protagonist would have tremendous adversity due to the 'Qunari' aspect.

There are ways it can be done.  The more obvious ones are a little trite and predictable.  "Chantry prophecy predicts a grant colamitty will unleash the demons of the fade on Thedas.  The lone survivor of the event is the only one who can stop the horrors to come."  Would work.  It would be INCREDIBLY hack kneed for DA to go that direction.  I am going to hope for and expect something better.

 

A lot of it I think is from what they have hinted at about everyone else who could help having their hands full.  Ferelden recovering from blight, Grey Wardens busy with their scheme, Orlais either in or recovering from Civil war, Nevarra speculated to either be in full civil war or at least a power struggle over succession, Tevinter and Qunari at each others throats, Kirkwall/freemarches/and revain useless as usual, Chantry/templars/and mages doing their thing, if things are as bad as it looks with lots of demons popping loose and various forms of leadership wiped out at the "peace conference", again people are looking for anything that can keep them and theirs from being turned into inside out people suits.  If its a Valshoth or a Dalish or even a Mage, they probably won't care just as long as something makes the demons go boom.  Now, the respect/admiration/cooperation will take longer to earn as a mage/dalish/valshoth/dwarf than it would if you looked like you were the second coming of Emperor Drakon, but people are probably at the point where they largely don't care as long as someone can make the world make sense again.

[wcholcombe]

Templars had everything in control thanks to lambert he won then divine betrayed him and let walking bomb escape causing world war as i said lambert was right about mages and situation would be in control if divine let it be then she send leliana to kill templars and free mages which ended as any sane person would predict loosing templars support and not gaining mages support... She did it to herself and final nail for mage-templar war...

 

She lost and is desperate because she was naive as lambert said and he was right...

Lambert won what?  Seriously am I actually being forced to defend mages....I need a bath. 

 

Lambert got played. Adrian and Fiona played him like a fiddle.  They wanted him to attack the mage conclave.  Do you seriously think the other circles were going to sit tight after that went down? The mages had already won.  Lambert had already lost.  Unfortunately due to idiocy of many involved the Divine's plan of trying to accomplish it through debate and process failed and we are left with what we have.

 

Good lord I just defended mages, I feel icky.

[renfrees]

There are ways it can be done.  The more obvious ones are a little trite and predictable.  "Chantry prophecy predicts a grant colamitty will unleash the demons of the fade on Thedas.  The lone survivor of the event is the only one who can stop the horrors to come."  Would work.  It would be INCREDIBLY hack kneed for DA to go that direction.  I am going to hope for and expect something better.

 

A lot of it I think is from what they have hinted at about everyone else who could help having their hands full.  Ferelden recovering from blight, Grey Wardens busy with their scheme, Orlais either in or recovering from Civil war, Nevarra speculated to either be in full civil war or at least a power struggle over succession, Tevinter and Qunari at each others throats, Kirkwall/freemarches/and revain useless as usual, Chantry/templars/and mages doing their thing, if things are as bad as it looks with lots of demons popping loose and various forms of leadership wiped out at the "peace conference", again people are looking for anything that can keep them and theirs from being turned into inside out people suits.  If its a Valshoth or a Dalish or even a Mage, they probably won't care just as long as something makes the demons go boom.  Now, the respect/admiration/cooperation will take longer to earn as a mage/dalish/valshoth/dwarf than it would if you looked like you were the second coming of Emperor Drakon, but people are probably at the point where they largely don't care as long as someone can make the world make sense again.

I just hope it won't be handled like BM spec (as a matter-of-fact). There's so many loose ends left from both games, that needs to be tied somehow, that i shudder, when they try to bring new ones.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lambert won what?  Seriously am I actually being forced to defend mages....I need a bath. 

 

Lambert got played. Adrian and Fiona played him like a fiddle.  They wanted him to attack the mage conclave.  Do you seriously think the other circles were going to sit tight after that went down? The mages had already won.  Lambert had already lost.  Unfortunately due to idiocy of many involved the Divine's plan of trying to accomplish it through debate and process failed and we are left with what we have.

 

Good lord I just defended mages, I feel icky.

 

Lambert won that war before it even started he crushed mages and imprison them then divine let them escape to sart rebelion...

 

Lol it is like saying that i play police if i kill someone and throw evidence to my neighbors and call the police then they will come to arrest them same sitiation with adrian and lambert adrian was an idiot lost until divine and dumb leliana let them escape.

 

Eee yes as they always sit and doing nothing templars were in control as long as divine just sit on her a**...

 

And what was divine plan let walking bombs escape please... it is just dumb if she thought would give her any benefits and even world.

[Master Warder Z_]

Lambert won what?  Seriously am I actually being forced to defend mages....I need a bath. 

 

Lambert got played. Adrian and Fiona played him like a fiddle.  They wanted him to attack the mage conclave.  Do you seriously think the other circles were going to sit tight after that went down? The mages had already won.  Lambert had already lost.  Unfortunately due to idiocy of many involved the Divine's plan of trying to accomplish it through debate and process failed and we are left with what we have.

 

Good lord I just defended mages, I feel icky.

 

I wouldn't consider it in that light personally given that it also served as the Catalyst needed to unite the order under its original banner for the first time in what? 1200 years or so? The Knight Commanders or their replacements were behind Lambert; Their men were behind Lambert, The order in probably damn near its entirety is marching to war for one flag or another.

 

Fiona finally got her treasonous little vote but i wouldn't declare it a victory just yet

 

There are still the thousands upon thousands of templars about to kick down her door after all.

 

And in my opinion it wasn't the Mages playing the Lord Seeker, it was the Mages playing the Divine.

[Xilizhra]

I wouldn't consider it in that light personally given that it also served as the Catalyst needed to unite the order under its original banner for the first time in what? 1200 years or so? The Knight Commanders or their replacements were behind Lambert; Their men were behind Lambert, The order in probably damn near its entirety is marching to war for one flag or another.

Well, Lambert's almost certainly dead and many-to-all of the templars have now gone crazy on red lyrium, turning them into the enemies of everyone, not just the mages. So it's very far from a templar victory in any form.

[leaguer of one]

Lambert won what?  Seriously am I actually being forced to defend mages....I need a bath. 

 

Lambert got played. Adrian and Fiona played him like a fiddle.  They wanted him to attack the mage conclave.  Do you seriously think the other circles were going to sit tight after that went down? The mages had already won.  Lambert had already lost.  Unfortunately due to idiocy of many involved the Divine's plan of trying to accomplish it through debate and process failed and we are left with what we have.

 

Good lord I just defended mages, I feel icky.

First of all Fiona got nothing. As abrasive as she was she clearly wanted to debate the issue of freeing the mages peacefully. Adrian is who played Lambert with his own nature. He is still a sap and wrong for falling for it.

[leaguer of one]

I wouldn't consider it in that light personally given that it also served as the Catalyst needed to unite the order under its original banner for the first time in what? 1200 years or so? The Knight Commanders or their replacements were behind Lambert; Their men were behind Lambert, The order in probably damn near its entirety is marching to war for one flag or another.

 

Fiona finally got her treasonous little vote but i wouldn't declare it a victory just yet

 

There are still the thousands upon thousands of templars about to kick down her door after all.

 

And in my opinion it wasn't the Mages playing the Lord Seeker, it was the Mages playing the Divine.

Thousands of Templars that are short on lyrium and chanrty support are no force to fear at all.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, Lambert's almost certainly dead and many-to-all of the templars have now gone crazy on red lyrium, turning them into the enemies of everyone, not just the mages. So it's very far from a templar victory in any form.

 

 

It's amusing in way your mind concocts fanon and places it into the universe.

 

There is nothing to indicate the red templars are the majority; that was an early day assumption that has all but been quashed by the developers which have repeatedly stated the Templar order will be a faction in the game which negates the whole "they are all insane on corrupted lyrium" 

 

Won't debate Lambert's fate given a single sentence writing him off in WOT hardly confirms anything beyond what is believed by the masses, they also thought King Maric was dead didn't they?

 

Beyond that?

 

It's the PC's decision likely who ultimately wins anything, i am just pointing out the obvious advantage that a bunch of well armed, well equipped and funded warriors with magic negating abilities have over mages that until a while ago had never had cause to become an army.

 

The Templars have existed since their inception as an army.

 

This War in my mind is about like the communist uprising on Grenada.

 

It will end the sameway as well.

[Master Warder Z_]

Thousands of Templars that are short on lyrium and chanrty support are no force to fear at all.

 

There are threads and threads to debate that point with you; And considering you might as well have the entire mage rebellion turn into a massive swarm of abominations at any moment...You better hope the Templars don't run out of Lyrium eh?

 

Thedas might be in trouble then.