That has no basis on the issue if mages are in danger of becoming abomination. That just means the common man would have a fear of it.
It flat out says in the time when mages were free and on their own, Anominations were rampant and common.
Its actually surprisingly fun to hold the middle ground from you two sides.
I haven't seen anything saying there is a split in the Chantry. WoT says allegiances between templars and seekers is split with some still supoorting the divine, but I see nothing of a split in the Chantry. Some of the Grand Clerics may see Justina as vulnerable, but the rank and file of the Chantry will still view her as a living representative of Andraste, you may have some who are more hardline about anti magic than they actually are about Andraste, but the only issues she will face will be from the Grand Clerics who seek to replace her, in that regard I would advise them to be very careful, Justina actually scares me in some regards.
As for his resignation, I just looked at the page in Asunder, while he does deride the Divine, he says nothing about renegotiating with the Chantry if she is replaced.
Again I feel the majority of the Templars would follow him, but I would hardly feel that the Chantry is stripped of Templars.
Varric implied it in the ending of DA 2 at the final bit of the Integration or i completely read that wrong anyway 
"Your Chantry's fallen to pieces and set the world on the edge of war"
This was confirmed to have not been the templars rebelling given he mentioned that a sentence later.
It's only a single sentence mind you, but to me if its taken at value then it confirms what Petrice stated would happen in act 3.
Schism has come.
As for the page number of when he states that, mind its only a single sentence but it is on page...413 in the Epilogue.
He states that he hopes to do so once he crushed the mage host and then renegotiate a more favorable position for the Templars in the Chantry.
Can't fault him for that.
Ah my dear you need to purpose a copy of WOT best volume you can have for debates on BSN...or Bioware forums i guess now
Anywho.
The Templar Order was constructed by the former original Inquisition to be the policing body of the circle system, you likely know this yes? The Seekers of Truth were constructed at the same time also by the Inquisition, only difference? The rank and file made up the Templars and their Officers made up the Seekers. Hence why exceptional templars become Seekers to this day. Only rarely does a non templar become a seeker.
Point of it being, The Seekers have command of the Templars, Hence why Lambert could dismiss a Knight Commander with a single letter and assume his post at the White Spire.
And the Divine has command of the Seekers. She is a condendency to the seekers going out of control. And Lambert ignored her, hence him being in the wrong.
Ah my dear you need to purpose a copy of WOT best volume you can have for debates on BSN...or Bioware forums i guess now
Anywho.
The Templar Order was constructed by the former original Inquisition to be the policing body of the circle system, you likely know this yes? The Seekers of Truth were constructed at the same time also by the Inquisition, only difference? The rank and file made up the Templars and their Officers made up the Seekers. Hence why exceptional templars become Seekers to this day. Only rarely does a non templar become a seeker.
Point of it being, The Seekers have command of the Templars, Hence why Lambert could dismiss a Knight Commander with a single letter and assume his post at the White Spire.
As the Seeker order stood before the schism, the Divine appointed new Seeker. And the Seekers existed to police to Templars. The Templars don't directly report to the Seekers. But the Lord Seeker could manipulate a situation to gain control of the Templars and still adhere to his duty, which is likely what he (or someone within the Chantry) did.
It flat out says in the time when mages were free and on their own, Anominations were rampant and common.
Its actually surprisingly fun to hold the middle ground from you two sides.
And that still means mages don't turn to abominations at a drop of a hat. You do understand the the world was weaken and in chaos because they just finish ending the blight which was the worst one ever?
It's not a point to say mages easily become abomination, it just statement that at that time a chaos it was an issue because of all the chaos.
1. Proof the Adrian is acting on Fiona's behalf, please. No baseless speculation. Real proof.
2. Can't blame her for what others do without consulting her.
3. Them taking about it does not make them rebels about to over turn the chantry, especially when they are doing it peacefully.
Sorry, but Labert attacking them was the thing that truly made them rebel. Not Fiona peacefully debating that mages should be free.
If you are asking me to say that I have it written somewhere that Adian acted on Fiona's orders, I am not going to lie and say I have it. Adrian met with the Grand Enchanter, basically became her right hand man so to speak. I believe she is referred to spending so much time with Fiona that she had become more her accessory than anything else. I don't think she acted independently on this. Fiona said she didn't care what the Divine was trying to do. I am sorry it is idiotic of them to act the way they did when they had arguably the most powerful leader in Thedas on their side. And yes, when you agree to have the first conclave in a year to discuss a subject, that the Divine intended to possibly use to get rid of the Right of Tranquility, and you immediatley break that agreement-that is rebeling.
Seeker authority supercedes Templar authority. And both Templars and Seekers has only agreed to subjecting themselves to the Chantry for as long as the CHantry lived up to the accord, the very second the Chantry chose to disregard the accord, the Templars and Seekers were free to follow their own agenda.
I don't think many dismiss the fact that magic is dangerous, and that mages need to be instructed on how to handle magic properly. The main argument is against the Chantry controlled Circles, against the Order of Templars having dominion over mages in the name of religion, and against what the Andrastian faith preaches about mages and magic. Just because mages need to be taught how to properly use their powers doesn't mean that the Chantry or the templars should be the ones who have absolute authority over them.
Its not just about being taught how to handle magic. Its also about desire to gain advantage via magic (and how many would resist?). Its also about having more innate power and being under daily mental pressure. I don't think we should argue about magic in Thedas being immensely more dangerous to its wielder than, for example, magic in Faerun.
If you are asking me to say that I have it written somewhere that Adian acted on Fiona's orders, I am not going to lie and say I have it. Adrian met with the Grand Enchanter, basically became her right hand man so to speak. I believe she is referred to spending so much time with Fiona that she had become more her accessory than anything else. I don't think she acted independently on this. Fiona said she didn't care what the Divine was trying to do. I am sorry it is idiotic of them to act the way they did when they had arguably the most powerful leader in Thedas on their side. And yes, when you agree to have the first conclave in a year to discuss a subject, that the Divine intended to possibly use to get rid of the Right of Tranquility, and you immediatley break that agreement-that is rebeling.
Nope. Not proof. Page numbers and quotes are proof. Not speculation. And Adrian never directly talk to Fiona one in the entire book.
And that still means mages don't turn to abominations at a drop of a hat. You do understand the the world was weaken and in chaos because they just finish ending the blight which was the worst one ever?
It's not a point to say mages easily become abomination, it just statement that at that time a chaos it was an issue because of all the chaos.
Pharamond states as well in Asunder that hedge wizards and such historically had short lives before succumbing to madness in his research. I am not saying a mage sneezes and becomes and abomination, I am also arguing against the idea that it is extremely difficult for mages to become tempted and abominations. It can happen. It isn't like falling off a log, but it isn't as difficult as log rolling either.
Pharamond states as well in Asunder that hedge wizards and such historically had short lives before succumbing to madness in his research. I am not saying a mage sneezes and becomes and abomination, I am also arguing against the idea that it is extremely difficult for mages to become tempted and abominations. It can happen. It isn't like falling off a log, but it isn't as difficult as log rolling either.
It can happen, if the Veil is especially thin or if someone is deliberately summoning demons.
And that still means mages don't turn to abominations at a drop of a hat. You do understand the the world was weaken and in chaos because they just finish ending the blight which was the worst one ever?
It's not a point to say mages easily become abomination, it just statement that at that time a chaos it was an issue because of all the chaos.
And world not in chaos in the times of DAI?
Varric implied it in the ending of DA 2 at the final bit of the Integration or i completely read that wrong anyway
"Your Chantry's fallen to pieces and set the world on the edge of war"
This was confirmed to have not been the templars rebelling given he mentioned that a sentence later.
It's only a single sentence mind you, but to me if its taken at value then it confirms what Petrice stated would happen in act 3.
Schism has come.
As for the page number of when he states that, mind its only a single sentence but it is on page...413 in the Epilogue.
He states that he hopes to do so once he crushed the mage host and then renegotiate a more favorable position for the Templars in the Chantry.
Can't fault him for that.
Ahh you were reffering to his personal missives. Got ya, I thought you were meaning in his actual resignation.
I think Varics comment means the split between Chantry and Templars as most-I would say Varic included- view them as one and the same.
Seeker authority supercedes Templar authority. And both Templars and Seekers has only agreed to subjecting themselves to the Chantry for as long as the CHantry lived up to the accord, the very second the Chantry chose to disregard the accord, the Templars and Seekers were free to follow their own agenda.
Not really. You need to consider the fact the a good portion of the templar were corrupt and the seeker did little about it. All the divine did was try and correct it.
Nothing done by the divine before Lambert acted out went against the code of the templars.
He is still in the wrong.
Pharamond states as well in Asunder that hedge wizards and such historically had short lives before succumbing to madness in his research. I am not saying a mage sneezes and becomes and abomination, I am also arguing against the idea that it is extremely difficult for mages to become tempted and abominations. It can happen. It isn't like falling off a log, but it isn't as difficult as log rolling either.
He also said they are super rare. That does not mean the majority can turn the abominations at a drop of a hat.
And world not in chaos in the times of DAI?
And it has nothing to do with the mages and with them being the most knowledgeable with magic you clearly need their help to close the magical Veil.
It can happen, if the Veil is especially thin or if someone is deliberately summoning demons.
No, it can also happen when the viel isn't thin. What demon was summoned or viel was made thin in Redcliff? The demon found him on his own because thats how demons operate. Mages are also succeptible to it when they dream and enter the fade. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be such a danger presented by it. Mages have to be taught to fight temptation and it still doesn't always work. Also, the danger presented by mages isn't just that of abominations and such, it is also the danger of a mage abusing the power they have is just as bad as with non mages, the problem is its a lot harder to stop a power hungry mage once he gets going. Its a complicated problem, but unfortunately I have to go to work, so I will talk to you fine ladies and gents later.
I have no idea how to edit my own posts, mods please help me.
No, it can also happen when the viel isn't thin. What demon was summoned or viel was made thin in Redcliff? The demon found him on his own because thats how demons operate. Mages are also succeptible to it when they dream and enter the fade. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be such a danger presented by it. Mages have to be taught to fight temptation and it still doesn't always work. Also, the danger presented by mages isn't just that of abominations and such, it is also the danger of a mage abusing the power they have is just as bad as with non mages, the problem is its a lot harder to stop a power hungry mage once he gets going. Its a complicated problem, but unfortunately I have to go to work, so I will talk to you fine ladies and gents later.
Connor deliberately summoned that demon.
He also said they are super rare. That does not mean the majority can turn the abominations at a drop of a hat.
On page 285 of Asunder, Pharamond says nothing about Hedge wizards being rare. He said many of them ended up dying of insanity--which might be related to abominations. He says nothing about any of that being rare.
Ahh you were reffering to his personal missives. Got ya, I thought you were meaning in his actual resignation.
I think Varics comment means the split between Chantry and Templars as most-I would say Varic included- view them as one and the same.
Nah i admit my knowledge of Asunder is...occasionally rusty but i do remember a good deal of the book most of the time.
Hrmm if that is indeed the case then you likely would have more Templars remaining behind with the Chantry then i intially suspected.
Also means the possible religious schism may not occur, pity it would have been an interesting plot device toss into DAI along with the veil tears, Civil war and mage rebellion.
Connor deliberately summoned that demon.
Conor didn't have a clue what he did. He didn't intentionally summon a demon. The demon found him.
No, it can also happen when the viel isn't thin. What demon was summoned or viel was made thin in Redcliff? The demon found him on his own because thats how demons operate. Mages are also succeptible to it when they dream and enter the fade. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be such a danger presented by it. Mages have to be taught to fight temptation and it still doesn't always work. Also, the danger presented by mages isn't just that of abominations and such, it is also the danger of a mage abusing the power they have is just as bad as with non mages, the problem is its a lot harder to stop a power hungry mage once he gets going. Its a complicated problem, but unfortunately I have to go to work, so I will talk to you fine ladies and gents later.
In redcliff demon was directly summoned, so it clearly was not case of it happening at a drop of a hat. He used magic he was not suppose to not because the demon went to him directly.
Redcliff is an example that mages need to be properly educated, not control like dogs.
Conor didn't have a clue what he did. He didn't intentionally summon a demon. The demon found him.
His tutor pretty much confirmed as much.
He couldn't light a candle magically little lone cobble together a demonic summoning.
On page 285 of Asunder, Pharamond says nothing about Hedge wizards being rare. He said many of them ended up dying of insanity--which might be related to abominations. He says nothing about any of that being rare.
He also said it only happen if the mage is left on their own to develop their magic without their magic being properly taught to them. How many mages are like that in modern Thedus?
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