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[drake heath]

No, because they believe it saved him from the "tyranny" of the circle.

The tyranny lead by reasonable people like Irving, Gregoire, and that Templar guy who let Finn basically wonder around Ferelden unsupervised, and lets mages learn magic taught by learned teachers with tons of books on the subject, even though they probably shouldn't even be letting them know anything about magic.

 

And it's all free, I might add, not even nobles get free room and board, food and education.

 

Basically a Soviet gulag.

[BlueMagitek]

I pretty much did the same.

You don't have a guarantee that she'll leave forever.  At best, you have a desire demon giving you what you desire, a solution that appears golden. ~_^

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ah my dear you need to purpose a copy of WOT best volume you can have for debates on BSN...or Bioware forums i guess now

 

Anywho.

 

The Templar Order was constructed by the former original Inquisition to be the policing body of the circle system, you likely know this yes? The Seekers of Truth were constructed at the same time also by the Inquisition, only difference? The rank and file made up the Templars and their Officers made up the Seekers. Hence why exceptional templars become Seekers to this day. Only rarely does a non templar become a seeker.

 

Point of it being, The Seekers have command of the Templars, Hence why Lambert could dismiss a Knight Commander with a single letter and assume his post at the White Spire.

I'll be honest, it's been a while since I've last read it. I always saw it as more the Seekers served as a checks and balance of the Templars rather than direct leadership.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What?  You don't believe that the Warden slaughtered so many in Ferelden that it caused depopulation issues?  I'm pretty sure I got the 1000+ achievement.

Isn't that achievement for killing 1000 Darkspawn?

[Master Warder Z_]

I know, hence the italics, yosh~

 

I ain't joking about the Almighty Push neither hence the bold.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'll be honest, it's been a while since I've last read it. I always saw it as more the Seekers served as a checks and balance of the Templars rather than direct leadership.

 

I've always been of the mind it was both given you have situations where you have Seekers commanding Templars to do their bidding beyond Asunder.

[BlueMagitek]

Isn't that achievement for killing 1000 Darkspawn?

We'll have none of your sense round these parts, ser.

 

 

I ain't joking about the Almighty Push neither hence the bold.

 

[Master Warder Z_]

 

o.o

 

Wait a thought occurs...given what that power is; would it qualify as magic?

 

If so perhaps i shouldn't use it given i ain't a bloody robe.

 

Then again Warriors do have occasion do use magic; Just rarely.

[Steelcan]

I wonder if we will get a mage ruler or templar leader like my avi, fun times would follow

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I've always been of the mind it was both given you have situations where you have Seekers commanding Templars to do their bidding beyond Asunder.

I suppose so.

 

 

o.o

 

Wait a thought occurs...given what that power is; would it qualify as magic?

 

If so perhaps i shouldn't use it given i ain't a bloody robe.

 

Then again Warriors do have occasion do use magic; Just rarely.

The power you refer to fits Force Mage pretty well. Congratulations, Warden. you are now a mage.

[Master Warder Z_]

I wonder if we will get a mage ruler or templar leader like my avi, fun times would follow

 

Which Roman is he? 

 

Apologies for not recognizing the bust but it is late and my memory of those statues is...fuzzy at best.

 

I suppose so.

 

 

The power you refer to fits Force Mage pretty well. Congratulations, Warden. you are now a mage.

 

Bloody Robes commanding gravity like it's a toy. 

 

Fields of repulsion and attraction aren't meant to be used by any one but God Dang it.

 

Bah! *Promptly joins the Loyalist Fraternity*

[wcholcombe]

Yes, except moreso, because even stress won't do so alone; it requires a thinned Veil. Or at least, that's the precedent that we've seen throughout the games. It isn't like we saw people spontaneously turning into abominations in DAO outside the Circle tower, where demons were already running wild; that only happened in DA2, in the cursed city and countryside of Kirkwall.

Wynne and the Abomination that used to be Uldred kind of disagree with you.

 

[renfrees]

The way i take it from multiple observations and the lore - is mage has to slip in the moment of stress to become an abomination (obviously after making an actual deal with the demon for help). Slip as to mindlessly give in to strong feelings for demon to take full control. Thin Veil has little to do with it.

 

Otherwise there would be little need for Harrowing - just round out all the places with the thin Veil and forbid mages to visit them. Wouldn't be too hard to do, as it seems that mages and even some non-mages (i.e. Fenris) can feel the places with thin Veil.

[wcholcombe]

The way i take it from multiple observations and the lore - is mage has to slip in the moment of stress to become an abomination (obviously after making an actual deal with the demon for help). Slip as to mindlessly give in to strong feelings for demon to take full control. Thin Veil has little to do with it.

 

Otherwise there would be little need for Harrowing - just round out all the places with the thin Veil and forbid mages to visit them. Wouldn't be too hard to do, as it seems that mages and even some non-mages (i.e. Fenris) can feel the places with thin Veil.

Plus, as indicated in various sources, including specifically the Dragon Age Volume 1 comic-mages can be tempted and possessed when they enter the fade during their dreams.  That is also the importance of training and the harrowing.  A mage is going to be tempted by demons whether they seek them out or not.

[wcholcombe]

Oh and one more tidbit from Wynne-

 

"Every mage is volunerable, no matter how accomplished or powerful."  So yeah possession by abomination is more of a threat than some on this forum like to admit.

 

Again, no it isn't like a mage sneezes and becomes possessed, but it doesn't require you to learn how to summon a demon to be possessed either and training in the circle doesn't make you immune to possession as long as you aren't stressed or bullied by templars.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Thats why mages need to die because they are ticking bombs

[EmperorSahlertz]

Except that "time-bomb" would imply that detonation is inevitable.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Except that "time-bomb" would imply that detonation is inevitable.

 

Sooner or later as shown most mages end causing disaster becoming part of it even if unwillingly those mages who survive life without causing disaster i would consider as lucky bomb that didn't explode on time because death prevented that and we can't rly tell who will explode and who no all we know that effect will be disastrous... IT is better disarm every bomb than guess and wait which is real bomb or fake bomb...

[Xilizhra]

Wynne and the Abomination that used to be Uldred kind of disagree with you.

Um, Uldred did deliberately summon demons beforehand, rending the Veil; he just screwed it up and got possessed in the process. And Wynne's possession happened after that.

[KaiserShep]

Sooner or later as shown most mages end causing disaster becoming part of it even if unwillingly those mages who survive life without causing disaster i would consider as lucky bomb that didn't explode on time because death prevented that and we can't rly tell who will explode and who no all we know that effect will be disastrous... IT is better disarm every bomb than guess and wait which is real bomb or fake bomb...

 

Wrong. If "most" mages ended up causing disaster as you insist, the Circle system would not have lasted as long as it has.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Wrong. If "most" mages ended up causing disaster as you insist, the Circle system would not have lasted as long as it has.

Lolz tevinter empire bulit on that lasted so long as well thats why we have RoA and why we have so many disasters caused by mages circle mages are only here thanks to regular killing mages as i call there were 17 RoA to this point and that had to be a big disasters...

[LobselVith8]

The tyranny lead by reasonable people like Irving, Gregoire, and that Templar guy who let Finn basically wonder around Ferelden unsupervised, and lets mages learn magic taught by learned teachers with tons of books on the subject, even though they probably shouldn't even be letting them know anything about magic.

 

And it's all free, I might add, not even nobles get free room and board, food and education.

 

Basically a Soviet gulag.

 

I notice how people gloss over the toxic conditions of the Circles of Magi and act as though the mages should be grateful for being forced into servitude to the Chantry and their militant arm.

 

It's not as though the Chantry controlled Circle is some idyllic paradise. The Starkhaven mages note that the Circle of Starkhaven was bad, and some of the ones we encounter have been driven to the brink of insanity; Karl was writing to Anders about the horrors of the Circle of Kirkwall, which prompted Anders to leave Ferelden for the Free Marches, to rescue his former lover; there were mages who were beaten, whipped, tortured, raped, and made tranquil. The frightening power that the templars had over mages lead to these abuses.

 

Even in the Circle of Ferelden, the mage protagonist can address that the Circle is "an oppressive place", and Wynne will argue that the protagonist can return to the Circle and change this as a leader of the mages. Aneirin was hunted down and nearly killed by the templars as a young boy for running away. Even Irving notes that the environment of the Circle is one of survival, saying to the mage protagonist: "If you want to survive, you must learn the rules and realize that sometimes, sacrifices are necessary." The First Enchanter also admits: "And Chantry and templars are models of magnanimity? They would make us all Tranquil if they could, and call it a kindness. They fancy themselves our guardians, sitting smugly on their righteousness."

 

It's not too difficult to see why some see the Chantry controlled Circles as tyranny.

[wcholcombe]

Um, Uldred did deliberately summon demons beforehand, rending the Veil; he just screwed it up and got possessed in the process. And Wynne's possession happened after that.

 

Did you watch the video?  Abomination Uldred states abominations are the natural progression of mages and Wynne states in there just how easy it is in a moment to become an abomination and everything that you ever were seases to exist.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I notice how people gloss over the toxic conditions of the Circles of Magi and act as though the mages should be grateful for being forced into servitude to the Chantry and their militant arm.

 

It's not as though the Chantry controlled Circle is some idyllic paradise. The Starkhaven mages note that the Circle of Starkhaven was bad, and some of the ones we encounter have been driven to the brink of insanity; Karl was writing to Anders about the horrors of the Circle of Kirkwall, which prompted Anders to leave Ferelden for the Free Marches, to rescue his former lover; there were mages who were beaten, whipped, tortured, raped, and made tranquil. The frightening power that the templars had over mages lead to these abuses.

 

Even in the Circle of Ferelden, the mage protagonist can address that the Circle is "an oppressive place", and Wynne will argue that the protagonist can return to the Circle and change this as a leader of the mages. Aneirin was hunted down and nearly killed by the templars as a young boy for running away. Even Irving notes that the environment of the Circle is one of survival, saying to the mage protagonist: "If you want to survive, you must learn the rules and realize that sometimes, sacrifices are necessary." The First Enchanter also admits: "And Chantry and templars are models of magnanimity? They would make us all Tranquil if they could, and call it a kindness. They fancy themselves our guardians, sitting smugly on their righteousness."

 

It's not too difficult to see why some see the Chantry controlled Circles as tyranny.

 

Bethany said that circle was good so it is only pro-mage whining how abusive life they have living with luxuries... im not saying that they should be grateful but as for loosers they received a lot when chantry could just kill them and it would be more benefical for chantry... and only alrik (few of his peoples) and karras were doing that stuff so you are making that up... 

 

Mage protagonist can as well say that they liked circle and that was their home...

[LobselVith8]

Um, Uldred did deliberately summon demons beforehand, rending the Veil; he just screwed it up and got possessed in the process. And Wynne's possession happened after that.

 

True, Uldred summoned more demons than he could control, and was possessed as a result; he effectively lost a battle of wills. It's similar to what happened to Sophia Dryden in Warden's Keep. And the veil is thin at the Circle of Ferelden as a result, which is later explicitly addressed in the US Ending for the Magi Warden.