8640 réponses à ce sujet

[wcholcombe]

Sooner or later as shown most mages end causing disaster becoming part of it even if unwillingly those mages who survive life without causing disaster i would consider as lucky bomb that didn't explode on time because death prevented that and we can't rly tell who will explode and who no all we know that effect will be disastrous... IT is better disarm every bomb than guess and wait which is real bomb or fake bomb...

Thats a drastic oversimplification.  There have been been abominations in games at a high level sure, but it is obviously over done for game mechanics and game plot(DA2) just as the templars in DA2 are over played as blood thirsty psychopaths with absolutely no humanity.

 

More mages in the books have not become abominations than have. Is it a risk? Yes there is a danger, but while the danger is real, mages aren't just walking around waiting to become abominations.

 

They need to be trained and policed for the good of all, but the Templars at the same time do need to step off to a degree on how people are treated.  I think the Circle system worked quite well early on, I think hard liners over the years on both sides have eroded what was originally a good system.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Thats a drastic oversimplification.  There have been been abominations in games at a high level sure, but it is obviously over done for game mechanics and game plot(DA2) just as the templars in DA2 are over played as blood thirsty psychopaths with absolutely no humanity.

 

More mages in the books have not become abominations than have. Is it a risk? Yes there is a danger, but while the danger is real, mages aren't just walking around waiting to become abominations.

 

They need to be trained and policed for the good of all, but the Templars at the same time do need to step off to a degree on how people are treated.  I think the Circle system worked quite well early on, I think hard liners over the years on both sides have eroded what was originally a good system.

 

 

It is not oversimplification numbers says a lot that it is not it isn't even kirkwall and there was a lot of that but also many other places... game mechanic or not it did happened like it or not...

 

And doesn't matter as siad above every mage can become abomnation at any moment because they are demon magnets... add to here human flaws and we have a lot of it with walking bomb potencial so yes we have a lot of that and abomnation is one problem blight or stuff like zathrian curse are another...

 

haha yes it worked very well only 17 roa and 9 centuries and also put here every other disaster caused by mages or circle mages that escaped like anders (8 times oh my gosh very effective...) , malcolm or jowan and many other mages...

 

 

 

This braddah be trippin.

 

 

 

Lolz it is even on picture that before blight roa was used 17 times and you show us only 3 another after blight in 10 year timeline

[wcholcombe]

I notice how people gloss over the toxic conditions of the Circles of Magi and act as though the mages should be grateful for being forced into servitude to the Chantry and their militant arm.

 

It's not as though the Chantry controlled Circle is some idyllic paradise. The Starkhaven mages note that the Circle of Starkhaven was bad, and some of the ones we encounter have been driven to the brink of insanity; Karl was writing to Anders about the horrors of the Circle of Kirkwall, which prompted Anders to leave Ferelden for the Free Marches, to rescue his former lover; there were mages who were beaten, whipped, tortured, raped, and made tranquil. The frightening power that the templars had over mages lead to these abuses.

 

Even in the Circle of Ferelden, the mage protagonist can address that the Circle is "an oppressive place", and Wynne will argue that the protagonist can return to the Circle and change this as a leader of the mages. Aneirin was hunted down and nearly killed by the templars as a young boy for running away. Even Irving notes that the environment of the Circle is one of survival, saying to the mage protagonist: "If you want to survive, you must learn the rules and realize that sometimes, sacrifices are necessary." The First Enchanter also admits: "And Chantry and templars are models of magnanimity? They would make us all Tranquil if they could, and call it a kindness. They fancy themselves our guardians, sitting smugly on their righteousness."

 

It's not too difficult to see why some see the Chantry controlled Circles as tyranny.

 

I really really wish both sides would stop basing their arguments on admitted game tropes in order to push the ideas and feelings of DA2 to the brink.

 

In Asunder Rhys has a much different representation of the Circle. Admitting that mages live better than most of the populace of Thedas, he also talks about how things were better when he was younger and they had more freedoms to leave the circle.

 

Aenerin fled the circle-guess what that is a crime and the Templars are allowed to kill an escaped mage if they won't return to the Tower.  Its the law, you may disagree with it, but that isn't an abuse of power.

[LobselVith8]

Bethany said that circle was good so it is only pro-mage whining how abusive life they have living with luxuries... im not saying that they should be grateful but as for loosers they received a lot when chantry could just kill them and it would be more benefical for chantry... and only alrik (few of his peoples) and karras were doing that stuff so you are making that up... 

 

Mage protagonist can as well say that they liked circle and that was their home...

 

I don't think the whipping, beatings, rapes, or being made tranquil to be a templar sex slave has to do with a pro-mage point of view, but rather the kind of abuses that can transpire when you give a military arm dominion over an entire group of people in the name of the Maker. Giving templars religious dominion over mages isn't the way to handle the issue of magic or mages.

 

This blatant and unrestricted authority over a vilified and marginalized group is this kind of abuse of power that lead to Alain being raped by templars, and being unable to speak out about it because he was threatened with tranquility, and to the numerous other abuses that mages suffered in the Chantry controlled Circle. It's why a templar like Thrask wanted to change the status quo, and topple the dictatorship of Meredith's hold over Kirkwall - to usher in an era of templars and mages working together, side by side.

 

My last point (about the Circle of Ferelden being an "oppressive place") was that Wynne (a moderate) never contests this - she argues to the mage protagonist that this can be changed if The Warden returns to the Circle and becomes a leader, and that it's her dream. Interestingly enough, Fiona ends up doing precisely this by returning to the Circle to help the mages.

[Xilizhra]

Did you watch the video?  Abomination Uldred states abominations are the natural progression of mages and Wynne states in there just how easy it is in a moment to become an abomination and everything that you ever were seases to exist.

In the first case, it's amazing how much the anti-mage side seems to trust abominations. First Marethari, now Uldred...

On the second note, yes, it is quite easy... provided the other conditions are met. I invite you to show me a single instance of possession occuring when one of those conditions wasn't in place.

 

Aenerin fled the circle-guess what that is a crime and the Templars are allowed to kill an escaped mage if they won't return to the Tower.  Its the law, you may disagree with it, but that isn't an abuse of power.

It's an inherently unjust law, should not be defended, and cannot be practiced without corruption.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Congratulations Kommodo, you figured out my ruse! Aren't you a lucky luck boy for doing it. Early in the morning and without my morning caffine isn't a good time to post but when you're fighting insomnia, mistakes are bound to happen. Figured you'd see I'd hidden my post and realized that perhaps I had removed it because hey, like you said, I was mistaken.

 

What do you want, a medal?

[Cainhurst Crow]

I really really wish both sides would stop basing their arguments on admitted game tropes in order to push the ideas and feelings of DA2 to the brink.

 

In Asunder Rhys has a much different representation of the Circle. Admitting that mages live better than most of the populace of Thedas, he also talks about how things were better when he was younger and they had more freedoms to leave the circle.

 

Aenerin fled the circle-guess what that is a crime and the Templars are allowed to kill an escaped mage if they won't return to the Tower.  Its the law, you may disagree with it, but that isn't an abuse of power.

 

Pretty much this. Aenerin was a boy, but then again so was conner when they became an abomination. It's a risk that can't really be afforded to take.

 

And on the subject of first enchanter irving, he's kinda a douche. You can tell him jowan is planning on breaking his phylactery, and irving just tells you to go ahead and let it happen because it'll look bad on the knight commander.

 

This is a potential blood mage, one with enough evidence to warrant a rite of tranquility approval, and irving is just a-okay in letting him smash the one thing needed to track him because politics.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't think the whipping, beatings, rapes, or being made tranquil to be a templar sex slave has to do with a pro-mage point of view, but rather the kind of abuses that can transpire when you give a military arm dominion over an entire group of people in the name of the Maker. Giving templars religious dominion over mages isn't the way to handle the issue of magic or mages.

 

This blatant and unrestricted authority over a vilified and marginalized group is this kind of abuse of power that lead to Alain being raped by templars, and being unable to speak out about it because he was threatened with tranquility, and to the numerous other abuses that mages suffered in the Chantry controlled Circle. It's why a templar like Thrask wanted to change the status quo, and topple the dictatorship of Meredith's hold over Kirkwall - to usher in an era of templars and mages working together, side by side.

 

My last point (about the Circle of Ferelden being an "oppressive place") was that Wynne (a moderate) never contests this - she argues to the mage protagonist that this can be changed if The Warden returns to the Circle and becomes a leader, and that it's her dream. Interestingly enough, Fiona ends up doing precisely this by returning to the Circle to help the mages.

 

Oh please you have only 2 examples rest of that is just random whines of mages who love paint themselves as victims. Besides even if that is true deal with that abuses are everwhere in modern times as well you see only few of them in news... even police will beat you if they will think that it is necessary... comparing to rest of thedas even common peoples in orlais mages haven they have living standarts of nobility and they don't have to do nothing to ern that...

 

I don't care in whos name templar are protecing world but i know they need try harsher methods... because current are too soft.

 

Yeah thrask is very good example he just let abomnation and blood mages be free good job thrask you were naive idiot and paid for that he is anoter perfect example why you shouln't trust mages... Meredith was doing her job he was ruthless but she couldn't use it and her peoples were idiots or naive idiots like it or not it were peoples like alrik who were protecting world when being creeps not thrask...

 

wynne was naive because of that and trusting chantry and templars she paid price like thrask such fools pay price of being them it isn't mass effect...

 

 

Congratulations Kommodo, you figured out my ruse! Aren't you a lucky luck boy for doing it. Early in the morning and without my morning caffine isn't a good time to post but when you're fighting insomnia, mistakes are bound to happen. Figured you'd see I'd hidden my post and realized that perhaps I had removed it because hey, like you said, I was mistaken.

 

What do you want, a medal?

 

yes and cookies or cake or my lawyers will destroy you

[wcholcombe]

In the first case, it's amazing how much the anti-mage side seems to trust abominations. First Marethari, now Uldred...

On the second note, yes, it is quite easy... provided the other conditions are met. I invite you to show me a single instance of possession occuring when one of those conditions wasn't in place.

 

 

 

It's an inherently unjust law, should not be defended, and cannot be practiced without corruption.

Seriously, I am not agreeing with Uldred about what he said, I was referencing both Wynne and Uldred's comments in the video Bioware officially released to introduce people to Abominations prior to DAO coming out that very clearly shows mages have to work very hard to avoid becoming Abominations.  No I don't think Abominations are the end for all mages.  Also, I am not anti mage, have you missed me arguing with both sides for the last 5+ pages?

 

Pro Mages(largely) see possession and Abomination as too unlikely to be worried about and having very few specific times and places where it can occur.  They also entirely disregard the ability of mages to abuse just having magic to dominate others.  They also view templars as only what has been shown largely in DA2 which were marginalized charactures of Templars admittedly by bioware so that both sides looked bad.  Can you imagine how bad the mages would have looked if the templars in Kirkwall would have all been portrayed as Alistaire and Gregoire and the mages in Kirkwall were all still doing what they did?  They made both sides worse.  Also, they are only too quick to defend any horrible act a mage committs by saying it was justified because of Chantry/Templars.

 

Anti Mages(largely) see possession and Abominations as being way too easy, like a mage is going to sneeze and become and abomination. They tend to disregard the many good mages we have met that have demonstrated themselves to be quite able to resist tempations.  They view the idiocy of all the blood mages in Kirkwall as proof of what all mages are like, even though no one in Asunder resorted to becoming an abomination or blood magic to resist the templars--again heavy handed game trope to make sure we all arrived at the place bioware wanted us for DAI.  And much like their opposites are only too quick to defend most any act by a templar as without fault.

 

Seriously people: Fiona, Ariane, Rhys, Lambert, Evangeline, Wynne, Meredith, Orsino, etc etc etc have all been played very badly by someone we haven't met anyway.  Seriously do ya'll think after 1000+ years a mage templar war just decided to happen?  No someone has pulled the strings to bring this about for an exact purpose.

 

Oh yeah and inherently unjust law or not, Aenerin knew what the law was and can be thankful they didn't kill him.  That excuse is like saying it is unjust when a prisoner escapes from prison and they have to use deadly force to capture him.  A mage who leaves the tower without permission is just that a criminal, and they know it when they do it.

[Xilizhra]

Seriously, I am not agreeing with Uldred about what he said, I was referencing both Wynne and Uldred's comments in the video Bioware officially released to introduce people to Abominations prior to DAO coming out that very clearly shows mages have to work very hard to avoid becoming Abominations.  No I don't think Abominations are the end for all mages.  Also, I am not anti mage, have you missed me arguing with both sides for the last 5+ pages?

They have to work hard, provided they're in certain conditions. Again, evidence plz for the contrary.

 

Pro Mages(largely) see possession and Abomination as too unlikely to be worried about and having very few specific times and places where it can occur.  They also entirely disregard the ability of mages to abuse just having magic to dominate others.  They also view templars as only what has been shown largely in DA2 which were marginalized charactures of Templars admittedly by bioware so that both sides looked bad.  Can you imagine how bad the mages would have looked if the templars in Kirkwall would have all been portrayed as Alistaire and Gregoire and the mages in Kirkwall were all still doing what they did?  They made both sides worse.  Also, they are only too quick to defend any horrible act a mage committs by saying it was justified because of Chantry/Templars.

Greagoir was pretty damn bad himself (physical abuse of pregnant women, summary executions, mind rape, all that jazz), he just wasn't clinically deranged like Meredith, and Alistair wasn't a templar at all (he never took any vows, joining the Grey Wardens first). As for magic dominating others, that topic has little-to-nothing to do with the idea that it's necessary for mages to be imprisoned by a viciously bigoted religious institution.

 

Seriously people: Fiona, Ariane, Rhys, Lambert, Evangeline, Wynne, Meredith, Orsino, etc etc etc have all been played very badly by someone we haven't met anyway.  Seriously do ya'll think after 1000+ years a mage templar war just decided to happen?  No someone has pulled the strings to bring this about for an exact purpose.

I think it was inevitable.

 

Oh yeah and inherently unjust law or not, Aenerin knew what the law was and can be thankful they didn't kill him.  That excuse is like saying it is unjust when a prisoner escapes from prison and they have to use deadly force to capture him.  A mage who leaves the tower without permission is just that a criminal, and they know it when they do it.

If I'm able to manage it, somehow, all templars involved with acts such as this and other uses of force against civilians will be called to account for them.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Anti Mages(largely) see possession and Abominations as being way too easy, like a mage is going to sneeze and become and abomination. They tend to disregard the many good mages we have met that have demonstrated themselves to be quite able to resist tempations.  They view the idiocy of all the blood mages in Kirkwall as proof of what all mages are like, even though no one in Asunder resorted to becoming an abomination or blood magic to resist the templars--again heavy handed game trope to make sure we all arrived at the place bioware wanted us for DAI.  And much like their opposites are only too quick to defend most any act by a templar as without fault.

 

Seriously people: Fiona, Ariane, Rhys, Lambert, Evangeline, Wynne, Meredith, Orsino, etc etc etc have all been played very badly by someone we haven't met anyway.  Seriously do ya'll think after 1000+ years a mage templar war just decided to happen?  No someone has pulled the strings to bring this about for an exact purpose.

 

Oh yeah and inherently unjust law or not, Aenerin knew what the law was and can be thankful they didn't kill him.  That excuse is like saying it is unjust when a prisoner escapes from prison and they have to use deadly force to capture him.  A mage who leaves the tower without permission is just that a criminal, and they know it when they do it.

 

Hmm didn't mages at least some in asunder were possesed by demon when they demons started tempt them when veil was weakened?And wasn't rhys puppet for demon or wynne become ax-crazy because she was possessed?

 

Many good mages haha who? irving and malcolm...

 

it is proven many times mages are way too easy to control for demons...and easiest way for them also best to cross veil...

[Cainhurst Crow]

yes and cookies or cake or my lawyers will destroy you

 

Sorry, no cake or cookies. Only ice cream. Mint flavored...also cursed.

[LobselVith8]

Oh please you have only 2 examples rest of that is just random whines of mages who love paint themselves as victims. Besides even if that is true deal with that abuses are everwhere in modern times as well you see only few of them in news... even police will beat you if they will think that it is necessary... comparing to rest of thedas even common peoples in orlais mages haven they have living standarts of nobility and they don't have to do nothing to ern that...

 

I don't care in whos name templar are protecing world but i know they need try harsher methods... because current are too soft.

 

Yeah thrask is very good example he just let abomnation and blood mages be free good job thrask you were naive idiot and paid for that he is anoter perfect example why you shouln't trust mages... Meredith was doing her job he was ruthless but she couldn't use it and her peoples were idiots or naive idiots like it or not it were peoples like alrik who were protecting world when being creeps not thrask...

 

wynne was naive because of that and trusting chantry and templars she paid price like thrask such fools pay price of being them it isn't mass effect...

 

There are numerous examples in the Gallows, not simply two. Regardless, the issue is that giving templars absolute authority over mages leads to an abuse of power, especially in an environment where magic is seen as a curse. The duty of the templars is seen as sacred, and one sanctioned by the Maker (as we know from Origins), and their domain over mages is literally one of divine right. It's not too difficult to understand how problems arise when you give religious fanatics absolute power over a group of people who are condemned as cursed, and responsible for their version of original sin.

 

As for the Circle of Kirkwall, specifically - the tranquil proprietor mentions to the protagonist that she will be whipped if you steal from her, and another mage warns that she'll be beaten if she's seen talking to civilians (when you try to speak with her); I don't see how those two examples warranted physical violence against said mages. It's easy to understand why Karl wrote to Anders about the living conditions of the Gallows, and why Anders was so eager to rescue Karl from the Circle of Kirkwall when our protagonist meets him at his clinic.

 

Regarding Thrask, he didn't simply let abominations roam free. He wanted mages and templars to work in unison towards a common goal, and to depose Meredith's rule. And Meredith's reign consisted of trying to usurp control of the City Guard, and having a death squad killing people in broad daylight. It's unfortunate that the developers decided to kill Thrask in that asinine plot with Grace.

 

And Wynne as naive? Why, because she wanted the mage protagonist to change the Circle of Ferelden for the better, and improve the lot of their people as a progressive leader?

[Asdrubael Vect]

LobselVith8

 

Agree with all but still Wynne is naive, stupid(in some things but this is mostly Chantry influence) and weak...Chantry corrupt her mind and raise her as weak and narrow-minded person and her son Rhys mostly was the same...i can respect Rhys sometimes(Fiona and Adriann deserves much more) but i will never respect Wynne especially after Asunder

[Steelcan]

Wynne is very preachy and annoying, particularly when talking about the Grey Wardens, but I don't think she is stupid

[wcholcombe]

Hmm didn't mages at least some in asunder were possesed by demon when they demons started tempt them when veil was weakened?And wasn't rhys puppet for demon or wynne become ax-crazy because she was possessed?

 

Many good mages haha who? irving and malcolm...

 

it is proven many times mages are way too easy to control for demons...and easiest way for them also best to cross veil...

No mages became abominations. Rhys said he was tempted but never gave in.  Wynne, Irving, Mage PC, Hawke PC, Fiona(hey she comes off as a GIANT B to me in Asunder but she was cool in The calling, Wilhelm, Morrigan, Flemeth,

[KaiserShep]

Yeah Wynne was a bit overbearing at times. That's why I brought Morrigan alongside her on numerous occasions. Her biting commentary was a nice balance.

[wcholcombe]

There are numerous examples in the Gallows, not simply two. Regardless, the issue is that giving templars absolute authority over mages leads to an abuse of power, especially in an environment where magic is seen as a curse. The duty of the templars is seen as sacred, and one sanctioned by the Maker (as we know from Origins), and their domain over mages is literally one of divine right. It's not too difficult to understand how problems arise when you give religious fanatics absolute power over a group of people who are condemned as cursed, and responsible for their version of original sin.

 

As for the Circle of Kirkwall, specifically - the tranquil proprietor mentions to the protagonist that she will be whipped if you steal from her, and another mage warns that she'll be beaten if she's seen talking to civilians (when you try to speak with her); I don't see how those two examples warranted physical violence against said mages. It's easy to understand why Karl wrote to Anders about the living conditions of the Gallows, and why Anders was so eager to rescue Karl from the Circle of Kirkwall when our protagonist meets him at his clinic.

 

Regarding Thrask, he didn't simply let abominations roam free. He wanted mages and templars to work in unison towards a common goal, and to depose Meredith's rule. And Meredith's reign consisted of trying to usurp control of the City Guard, and having a death squad killing people in broad daylight. It's unfortunate that the developers decided to kill Thrask in that asinine plot with Grace.

 

And Wynne as naive? Why, because she wanted the mage protagonist to change the Circle of Ferelden for the better, and improve the lot of their people as a progressive leader?

Again, DA2 is a bad argument for anybody. Bioware made both sides horrible on purpose and it was a heavy handed plot device.  I would find occurences in the Darkspawn Chronicles as better arguments than stuff from DA2.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Sorry, no cake or cookies. Only ice cream. Mint flavored...also cursed.

 

awww

 

There are numerous examples in the Gallows, not simply two. Regardless, the issue is that giving templars absolute authority over mages leads to an abuse of power, especially in an environment where magic is seen as a curse. The duty of the templars is seen as sacred, and one sanctioned by the Maker (as we know from Origins), and their domain over mages is literally one of divine right. It's not too difficult to understand how problems arise when you give religious fanatics absolute power over a group of people who are condemned as cursed, and responsible for their version of original sin.

 

As for the Circle of Kirkwall, specifically - the tranquil proprietor mentions to the protagonist that she will be whipped if you steal from her, and another mage warns that she'll be beaten if she's seen talking to civilians (when you try to speak with her); I don't see how those two examples warranted physical violence against said mages. It's easy to understand why Karl wrote to Anders about the living conditions of the Gallows, and why Anders was so eager to rescue Karl from the Circle of Kirkwall when our protagonist meets him at his clinic.

 

Regarding Thrask, he didn't simply let abominations roam free. He wanted mages and templars to work in unison towards a common goal, and to depose Meredith's rule. And Meredith's reign consisted of trying to usurp control of the City Guard, and having a death squad killing people in broad daylight. It's unfortunate that the developers decided to kill Thrask in that asinine plot with Grace.

 

And Wynne as naive? Why, because she wanted the mage protagonist to change the Circle of Ferelden for the better, and improve the lot of their people as a progressive leader?

 

Arlik and karras that all only two examples count to few templars with alrik if you want... templars need absolute authority over mages because they need to deal with them quickly without paperwork or mages bias or just creating new tevinter... i don't care what bull templars belive as long they chop mages thanks to that... as i said it was only mages whines that try to look as victims nothing more...

Karl was pro-mage like anders and well anders was nut when it comes about templars when he was wrong for most time like with alrik solution.

Yes he did he freed them from circle and let escape then he was working with abomnations lolz greates protector of the world evah... naive idiot... meredith tryied restore order when she was crazy she was right about mages and every other KC would do same when insane power hungry mages would be constant danger for city or world... it is very good that thrask died he was dumb and naive with trusting mage every sane and experienced templar know to not trust mage.

 

Wynne was naive because of that mages can't change circle for better not without war and creating own circles and then tevinter and only better for some mages... and other her being naive is trusting chantry ,divine and templars she got what she was working for.

[durasteel]

...

Oh yeah and inherently unjust law or not, Aenerin knew what the law was and can be thankful they didn't kill him.  That excuse is like saying it is unjust when a prisoner escapes from prison and they have to use deadly force to capture him.  A mage who leaves the tower without permission is just that a criminal, and they know it when they do it.

 

Appeals to the law are some of the worst examples of moral relativism. Laws change, and what might be a legal requirement today could be a crime next year. Laws requiring a thing don't make it right, nor do laws against a thing make it wrong. 

 

Also, if you're claiming that the authority of the Templars to hunt and kill mages derives from the law, then I suppose you would also support the theory that the relationship between Templar and Mage can be modified by legal authority, right? So if the Viscount of Kirkwall legally decrees that mages are free to live as they please and that the Templars were all to be incarcerated for their participation in oppression of sentients, well... that's the law, so everyone should follow it.

[LobselVith8]

Again, DA2 is a bad argument for anybody. Bioware made both sides horrible on purpose and it was a heavy handed plot device.  I would find occurences in the Darkspawn Chronicles as better arguments than stuff from DA2.

 

The storyline of Kirkwall aside, we knew as early as Origins that Andrastian society is shaped by the religious teachings of the Chantry, where magic is seen as a curse and mages are condemned as the ones responsible for the Blights and the killing of Andraste; added to that is the templars having nearly absolute power over mages in the name of the Maker, and it's easy to see how numerous problems are going to arise when the mages are subservient to the military arm of the Chantry. It's the crux of why some people take such a strong issue with the Chantry controlled Circles, and the status quo imposed on the mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

No mages became abominations. Rhys said he was tempted but never gave in.  Wynne, Irving, Mage PC, Hawke PC, Fiona(hey she comes off as a GIANT B to me in Asunder but she was cool in The calling, Wilhelm, Morrigan, Flemeth,

Rhys was controled by cole  ,wynne is abomnation at least other type of it she loses it in asunder becoming ax-crazy because of demon ,the warden and hawke pc doesn't not count as they are chuck norris in da world... Willhelm was playing with demons that would lead to possession leater if not the warden.Morrigan is dangerous ruthless and power hungry bit*** just wait some time and she will do a lot harm without abomnation , flemeth isn't mage she is something different if morrigan says truth is her story says truth she is an abomnation...

[Cainhurst Crow]

She doesn't weild an ax so how can she be ax crazy?

[Hellion Rex]

Appeals to the law are some of the worst examples of moral relativism. Laws change, and what might be a legal requirement today could be a crime next year. Laws requiring a thing don't make it right, nor do laws against a thing make it wrong. 

 

Also, if you're claiming that the authority of the Templars to hunt and kill mages derives from the law, then I suppose you would also support the theory that the relationship between Templar and Mage can be modified by legal authority, right? So if the Viscount of Kirkwall legally decrees that mages are free to live as they please and that the Templars were all to be incarcerated for their participation in oppression of sentients, well... that's the law, so everyone should follow it.

As to law, I think there is a difference between religious and secular laws. Except in the case of the Right of Conscription, the Templar Order, and by extension, the Circles of Magi, are outside the confines of secular law.

[TheKomandorShepard]

She doesn't weild an ax so how can she be ax crazy?

 

Axe istnt required