8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Appeals to the law are some of the worst examples of moral relativism. Laws change, and what might be a legal requirement today could be a crime next year. Laws requiring a thing don't make it right, nor do laws against a thing make it wrong. 

 

Also, if you're claiming that the authority of the Templars to hunt and kill mages derives from the law, then I suppose you would also support the theory that the relationship between Templar and Mage can be modified by legal authority, right? So if the Viscount of Kirkwall legally decrees that mages are free to live as they please and that the Templars were all to be incarcerated for their participation in oppression of sentients, well... that's the law, so everyone should follow it.

 

I'd imagine if the viscount declared that then other nations would need to respect that decision and allow him to use his sovereign authority as he saw fit. See tevinter. Of course, by that same extension, any nation is also free to exercise it's sovereign authority given to it through it's implied powers as a independent nation and respond to the viscounts decision in any manner they deem appropriate.

 

Such as an exalted march, cutting off all trade, creating a embargo zone, or even declaring war against them. All things within a nations sovereign power to do. So the viscount would need to be a complete idiot to go on to give mages freedom when it opens such a massive can of worms. Personally, if you want the law to be changed, make an argument that somehow addresses how rogue mages won't become abominations or maleficarum and how they will be answerable to any authority if they flee the circle. If a person of high interest, say a family member of a lord who declared themselves in the service of a rival nation, were to flee without the permission of the state, would the state not have the right to hunt them down? What argument would you make to this lord to convince them that it should be a crime to keep an eye on potential threats to the realm and allow yourself no right to detain anyone again?

[Asdrubael Vect]

TheKomandorShepard

Does you know that Rivain and Nevarra(Mortalitasi) is actually ruled by mages))) and any non-andrastians such Avvars, Chasind and etc i am not even talking about Dalish and Dragon cultists have mages as their rules

 

Grey Wardens-Anderfels have Blood Mages in high ranks and Order can't exist without them

 

why mages even need "new/another Ancient Tevinter with OG worship" if mostly all thedas lands have various magocratys for more than 8500 years, Thedas have it before  human arriving in Thedas, Ancient Tevinter and after Ancient Tevinter and creating Orlais Chantry and their Templars who exist just 600-700 years and already failed

 

the only places in Thedas who are not  officialy controled by mages is Orlais and some parts of Free Marshes and Ferelden and they was not controled for 600 years

 

nothing really change for 8500 years Thedas was controlled by mages and always will be

[Cainhurst Crow]

Axe istnt required

To be ax crazy, yeah it is. Just like being a chainsaw wielding maniac requires you have a chain saw. Otherwise it's just crazy, which is debatable at best. She thought her child was in danger and did what many family members would do, and went through the same emotional responses anyone else might have gone through. Had she been a templar we could say she went sword crazy in getting angry at the mages trying to kill her son and wanting to defend him.

[wcholcombe]

Rhys was controled by cole  ,wynne is abomnation at least other type of it she loses it in asunder becoming ax-crazy because of demon ,the warden and hawke pc doesn't not count as they are chuck norris in da world... Willhelm was playing with demons that would lead to possession leater if not the warden.Morrigan is dangerous ruthless and power hungry bit*** just wait some time and she will do a lot harm without abomnation , flemeth isn't mage she is something different if morrigan says truth is her story says truth she is an abomnation...

Rhys wasn't controlled by squat. He was sympathetic to Cole. Seriously.... and no, Wynne isn't an abomination the canticle has no affect on her, she is aided by a spirit not possessed or controled by a demon.  She never went crazy her rage threatened to over whelm her when she picked up that blood mage staff but noting came of it.  Wilhelm took plenty care of those demons he was researching, and I believe the circle was fully aware of his research so it was approved.  Flemeth again may be an abomination but if so she is a different one than others we have met.  Haven't seen Morrigan do anything like that yet, she may, but Meredith has already done worse so back at ya.  GEEZ why do I ya'll keep making me defend mages from these inane arguments.  Both sides are wrong boths sides do have a point, but both sides are wrong.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The storyline of Kirkwall aside, we knew as early as Origins that Andrastian society is shaped by the religious teachings of the Chantry, where magic is seen as a curse and mages are condemned as the ones responsible for the Blights and the killing of Andraste; added to that is the templars having nearly absolute power over mages in the name of the Maker, and it's easy to see how numerous problems are going to arise when the mages are subservient to the military arm of the Chantry. It's the crux of why some people take such a strong issue with the Chantry controlled Circles, and the status quo imposed on the mages.

Mages ARE responsible for killing Andraste and starting the Blights.... Yet magic is still recognized for its dual nature in Andrastian nations. It is a gift AND a curse.

[Hellion Rex]

Rhys wasn't controlled by squat. He was sympathetic to Cole. Seriously.... and no, Wynne isn't an abomination the canticle has no affect on her, she is aided by a spirit not possessed or controled by a demon.  She never went crazy her rage threatened to over whelm her when she picked up that blood mage staff but noting came of it.  Wilhelm took plenty care of those demons he was researching, and I believe the circle was fully aware of his research so it was approved.  Flemeth again may be an abomination but if so she is a different one than others we have met.  Haven't seen Morrigan do anything like that yet, she may, but Meredith has already done worse so back at ya.  GEEZ why do I ya'll keep making me defend mages from these inane arguments.  Both sides are wrong boths sides do have a point, but both sides are wrong.

1. Wynne was indeed an abomination as a spirit had physically possessed her.

2. We know nothing of the staff other than the fact that it seemed corrupted.

3. The Litany of Adralla (not Canticle) only halts blood magic mind control, nothing more.

[Hellion Rex]

Also, I do believe Rhys could have been controlled by Cole to commit the murders unwittingly.

[wcholcombe]

TheKomandorShepard

Does you know that Rivain and Nevarra(Mortalitasi) is actually ruled by mages))) and any non-andrastians such Avvars, Chasind and etc i am not even talking about Dalish and Dragon cultists have mages as their rules

 

Grey Wardens-Anderfels have Blood Mages in high ranks and Order can't exist without them

 

why mages even need "new/another Ancient Tevinter with OG worship" if mostly all thedas lands have various magocratys for more than 8500 years, Thedas have it before  human arriving in Thedas, Ancient Tevinter and after Ancient Tevinter and creating Orlais Chantry and their Templars who exist just 600-700 years and already failed

 

the only places in Thedas who are not  officialy controled by mages is Orlais and some parts of Free Marshes and Ferelden and they was not controled for 600 years

 

nothing really change for 8500 years Thedas was controlled by mages and always will be

What on earth are you arguing?  Nevarra is ruled by a king.  They have a religion that practices mumification-there is no magic involved.  The mortalitasi aren't mages, they are more or less priests of the dead no magic.  Rivan is ruled again by a king and aristocracy who are all Andrastian.  there are wise women in the more rural areas, but they by no means rule the country.

Grey wardens aren't mages.  The joining uses blood, I don't know that I can truly call it blood magic considering you don't need to be a mage to administer the joining.  Yes they have blood mages in their ranks, congratulations.  The Anderfels are ruled by a king and the country is Andrastian. No mages.

Templers and Chantry has been around for more than 1000 years btw.

[Steelcan]

this thing is still going?

[TheKomandorShepard]

TheKomandorShepard

Does you know that Rivain and Nevarra(Mortalitasi) is actually ruled by mages))) and any non-andrastians such Avvars, Chasind and etc i am not even talking about Dalish and Dragon cultists have mages as their rules

 

Grey Wardens-Anderfels have Blood Mages in high ranks and Order can't exist without them

 

why mages even need "new/another Ancient Tevinter with OG worship" if mostly all thedas lands have various magocratys for more than 8500 years, Thedas have it before  human arriving in Thedas, Ancient Tevinter and after Ancient Tevinter and creating Orlais Chantry and their Templars who exist just 600-700 years and already failed

 

the only places in Thedas who are not  officialy controled by mages is Orlais and some parts of Free Marshes and Ferelden

 

nothing really change for 8500 years Thedas was controlled by mages and always will be

 

 

Hm not rly at least not in nevarra mages are more influential there but far from ruling and ican see rivain abomnations and often destruction there as well other anders v1 and pointing mad cultist is rather desperate try and chasind as well...

 

Grey wardens can exist without them... as i said as long i have few mages imprisoned who will prepare joining...

 

yeah because mages were doing such good job ruling thanks for blight and thats only 1 disasters sponsored by magisters

 

no outside tevinter mages don't rule thedas they have influence in Rivain and are better treated in Nevarra where they are giving demons bodies just waiting for dragon age 5 the walking dead when army of undead destroys world because of mages in Nevarra

 

 

To be ax crazy, yeah it is. Just like being a chainsaw wielding maniac requires you have a chain saw. Otherwise it's just crazy, which is debatable at best. She thought her child was in danger and did what many family members would do, and went through the same emotional responses anyone else might have gone through. Had she been a templar we could say she went sword crazy in getting angry at the mages trying to kill her son and wanting to defend him.

 

it is just tille as to say on uncontroled and dangerous even insane behavior thats why it is ax not axe another excuse as i said i don't care for excuse why this mage is abomnation neither world will care when it will burn it... 

[Hellion Rex]

What on earth are you arguing?  Nevarra is ruled by a king.  They have a religion that practices mumification-there is no magic involved.  The mortalitasi aren't mages, they are more or less priests of the dead no magic.  Rivan is ruled again by a king and aristocracy who are all Andrastian.  there are wise women in the more rural areas, but they by no means rule the country.

Grey wardens aren't mages.  The joining uses blood, I don't know that I can truly call it blood magic considering you don't need to be a mage to administer the joining.  Yes they have blood mages in their ranks, congratulations.  The Anderfels are ruled by a king and the country is Andrastian. No mages.

Templers and Chantry has been around for more than 1000 years btw.

DEAD WRONG, about the Mortalitasi.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Mages ARE responsible for killing Andraste and starting the Blights.... Yet magic is still recognized for its dual nature in Andrastian nations. It is a gift AND a curse.

how about Tevinters selfdefense from their barbarians enemys who attack them(and Andraste was a mage and Maferat gave her to Tevinters) and some Old Gods stuff what we do know mostly nothing, but we know that blood mages/elves saved Thedas from Blights and Create Grey Wardens

 

Magic is a gift and a "curse" for Orlais Chantry and Orlais royal blood since Drakkon 1 die

[EmperorSahlertz]

this thing is still going?

It is still going and growing faster than a cancer tumor in Chernobyl.

[Asdrubael Vect]

What on earth are you arguing?  Nevarra is ruled by a king.  They have a religion that practices mumification-there is no magic involved.  The mortalitasi aren't mages, they are more or less priests of the dead no magic.  Rivan is ruled again by a king and aristocracy who are all Andrastian.  there are wise women in the more rural areas, but they by no means rule the country.

Grey wardens aren't mages.  The joining uses blood, I don't know that I can truly call it blood magic considering you don't need to be a mage to administer the joining.  Yes they have blood mages in their ranks, congratulations.  The Anderfels are ruled by a king and the country is Andrastian. No mages.

Templers and Chantry has been around for more than 1000 years btw.

1)a king is a puppet and all Mortalitasit are mages

2)The order was founded by a Tevinter mage named Vitus Fabria, who was a personal adviser of Caspar Pentaghast.

3)The Mortalitasi are linked to the royal family by blood, and it is common for Nevarran nobility to employ members of this order as advisers.

4)Rivain is ruled by Witches and their dynasty is nothing like in Antiva or Anderfels

5)Their creators was and many high ranking are. It is blood magic and order cant exist without mages

6)Anderfels is ruled by Grey Wardens, Tevinters are Andrastians too)))

7)nope Templars as Chantry Cirles exist just ~700 years

[The Baconer]

What on earth are you arguing?  Nevarra is ruled by a king.  They have a religion that practices mumification-there is no magic involved.  The mortalitasi aren't mages, they are more or less priests of the dead no magic.

 

Oh no, the Mortalitasi are most certainly mages.

[Hellion Rex]

It is still going and growing faster than a cancer tumor in Chernobyl.

[EmperorSahlertz]

how about Tevinters selfdefense from their barbarians enemys who attack them(and Andraste was a mage and Maferat gave her to Tevinters) and some Old Gods stuff what we do know mostly nothing, but we know that blood mages/elves saved Thedas from Blights and Create Grey Wardens

 

Magic is a gift and a "curse" for Orlais Chantry and Orlais royal blood since Drakkon 1 die

No matter how you put it, Tevinter mages are directly responsible for the death of Andraste, a woman most nations now revere. There is no evidence that says Andraste was a mage, and in a case such as this absence of evidence is indeed evidence of the contrary, Andraste most likely was not a mage.

What we do know is that the first Darkspawn was created by mages. Darkspawn then started the First Blight. Mages are therefore directly responsible for the Darkspawn and the Blights.

No mages were involved in the creation of the Grey Wardens. Tevinter SOLDIERS created the Grey Wardens. The only thing you need mages for is making the concoction more edible.

 

So yeah... Anything else you need clarified?

[wcholcombe]

Also, I do believe Rhys could have been controlled by Cole to commit the murders unwittingly.

Cole did the murders.  Just like he murdered the seeker commander at the end when Rhys was no where around and he murdered the templar guards when Rhys was in prison.

 

1. Wynne was indeed an abomination as a spirit had physically possessed her.

2. We know nothing of the staff other than the fact that it seemed corrupted.

3. The Litany of Adralla (not Canticle) only halts blood magic mind control, nothing more.

1. In the broadest sense yes, however in the terms we are speaking of no.  Wynne never lost control of herself or who she was.  The spirit mearly foritifed her.

2. It is pretty freaking obvious from reading it and its description it is a bm item.

[Hellion Rex]

What we do know is that the first Darkspawn was created by mages. Darkspawn then started the First Blight. Mages are therefore directly responsible for the Darkspawn and the Blights.

No mages were involved in the creation of the Grey Wardens. Tevinter SOLDIERS created the Grey Wardens. The only thing you need mages for is making the concoction more edible.

 

So yeah... Anything else you need clarified?

On the darkspawn, just to clarify, the mages became the first darkspawn, they didn't create them, and then they spread the Taint, changing others around them. As for the Grey Wardens, to make the Joining work without killing them, they certainly needed a mage's help. But both non mages and mages contributed.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Rhys wasn't controlled by squat. He was sympathetic to Cole. Seriously.... and no, Wynne isn't an abomination the canticle has no affect on her, she is aided by a spirit not possessed or controled by a demon.  She never went crazy her rage threatened to over whelm her when she picked up that blood mage staff but noting came of it.  Wilhelm took plenty care of those demons he was researching, and I believe the circle was fully aware of his research so it was approved.  Flemeth again may be an abomination but if so she is a different one than others we have met.  Haven't seen Morrigan do anything like that yet, she may, but Meredith has already done worse so back at ya.  GEEZ why do I ya'll keep making me defend mages from these inane arguments.  Both sides are wrong boths sides do have a point, but both sides are wrong.

 

I don't care who is wrong and who is right i care about results and mages are bad for business and survival... And yep rhys was puppet for cole and yes more sympathy for insane demonic psychopatic manchilds it reminds me many mages that caused disasters...  , wynne is abomnation like anders (abomnation is possessed mage) and still is dangerous for everyone around as she proved that going into anders mode... not affected by that she isn't very religious but yet she want kill us for ashes and spirit of faith coincidence?

 

Yeah ups only that demon would be free if not the warden or if warden desire can free demon thanks willhelm another point for mages and even for circles... 

Flemeth wasn't stated to be abomnation she can be but morriagn said she isn't human and normal mage nor abomnation point isn't changed if she is abomnation and morrigan was just playing... just wait for mega bi*** when she will be relesed onto world she will be burning orphans....

[wcholcombe]

Oh no, the Mortalitasi are most certainly mages.

 

 

 

1)they are mages

2)The order was founded by a Tevinter mage named Vitus Fabria, who was a personal adviser of Caspar Pentaghast.

3)The Mortalitasi are linked to the royal family by blood, and it is common for Nevarran nobility to employ members of this order as advisers.

4)Rivain is ruled by Witches and their dynasty is nothing like in Antiva or Anderfels

5)Their creators was and many high ranking are. It is blood magic and order cant exist without mages

6)Anderfels is ruled by Grey Wardens, Tevinters are Andrastians too)))

7)nope Templars as Chantry Cirles exist just ~700 years

 

 

 

DEAD WRONG, about the Mortalitasi.

 

While yes they are referred to as mages and were founded by a mage, nothing in their description says they do anything but advise and practice mummification and maintane the Grand Necropolis.  In WoT it even scoffs at the rumors and inflated stories about necromancy that are held outside of Nevarra.

 

Also throw in the fact that Nevarra is again a Chantry nation(WoT) loyal to the Divine in Val Royeux I don't see them having a renegade group of mages running around. Seriously that would be a pretty big break from the rest of the Andrastian nations loyal to the the Divine.

[LobselVith8]

Mages ARE responsible for killing Andraste and starting the Blights.... Yet magic is still recognized for its dual nature in Andrastian nations. It is a gift AND a curse.

 

Specific people are responsible for killing Andraste, and possibly for the Blights, not mages as a whole. It's recognized primarily as a curse by Andrastians in both games, which leads to the abysmal views that Keili and Bethany have of themselves because of their 'curse'.

[Hellion Rex]

And now we come back to the original argument.

[Cainhurst Crow]

how about Tevinters selfdefense from their barbarians enemys who attack them(and Andraste was a mage and Maferat gave her to Tevinters) and some Old Gods stuff what we do know mostly nothing, but we know that blood mages/elves saved Thedas from Blights and Create Grey Wardens

 

Magic is a gift and a "curse" for Orlais Chantry and Orlais royal blood since Drakkon 1 die

 

I've only seen one person push that theory forward in game, and I believe it was anders. Who also didn't believe magisters caused the blight until he came face to face with one.

 

Of course the tevinter imperium also holds this belief, but then again they also think she visits you in your dreams at night so they're more like the andrastian equivalent of mormons.

 

Wouldn't be surprised to find out they believe you need to wear special underwear to practice that version of the faith.

[wcholcombe]

I don't care who is wrong and who is right i care about results and mages are bad for business and survival... And yep rhys was puppet for cole and yes more sympathy for insane demonic psychopatic manchilds it reminds me many mages that caused disasters...  , wynne is abomnation like anders (abomnation is possessed mage) and still is dangerous for everyone around as she proved that going into anders mode... not affected by that she isn't very religious but yet she want kill us for ashes and spirit of faith coincidence?

 

Yeah ups only that demon would be free if not the warden or if warden desire can free demon thanks willhelm another point for mages and even for circles... 

Flemeth wasn't stated to be abomnation she can be but morriagn said she isn't human and normal mage nor abomnation point isn't changed if she is abomnation and morrigan was just playing... just wait for mega bi*** when she will be relesed onto world she will be burning orphans....

In the comics it is pretty heavily hinted at that Flemeth is abominationesq.  And Wynne is extremely religious in DAO, her whole viewpoint is she is a pro chantry mage in opposition to Morrigan's apostate position.  And she never loses control because of the spirit. She loses control when she touches that red staff and immediately returns to herself when it is destroyed.  The spirit never manifests itself over Wynne and in Asunder doesn't even appear until Wynne confronts the demon.

 

Now yes, I doubt Rhys' intelligence for how he handled Cole, but you can't say he was manipulated when after he attempts to force cole to reveal himself to others.