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[eyezonlyii]

I just want to point out that of the mages we have had in the party, it was only the ones from the Circle that ended up abominations. 

[wcholcombe]

I'd rather be mind controlled than shot, thank you very much.

 

And if you don't see the two as comparable, it might be because (1) you have never faced the prospect of life in prison, no matter how comfortable your cell might be, and (2) you don't want to, because it might make your position in this argument untenable. 

I disagree.  The idea of having my actions controled and not having free wheel is worse than death.

 

Even in a prison you still have free will.  It may result in you being killed or punished severly but you have free will. Mind control would be far worse than prison or death.

[Hellion Rex]

I'd rather be mind controlled than shot, thank you very much.

Until they make you shoot yourself.

[wcholcombe]

Actually when you consider that mages in the circles live in a lifestyle that is superior to all but the nobles in a country, you can't truly equate it to a concentration camp.  Well you can, but only if you are going to tell me German POWs were housed at the Ritz or the biltmore, because that is what life is like in a circle compared to the lives of most peasants, who let us remind you aren't calmly skipping through the daisies in DA 40.

[durasteel]

Sure the Circle is Dachau.

...

Comparing it to an interment camp is laughable.

 

Not Dachau, not unless the Rite of Annulment is invoked. Then it starts to have a lot of similarities.

 

No, I think the Circle is more like Manzanar, Tule Lake, Poston, Gila River, Granada, Heart Mountain, Minidoka, Topaz, Rohwer, Jerome, etc.

 

These were some of the internment camps the United States government set up starting in 1942 for families of Japanese ancestry or recent German immigrants after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The camps for which we've been apologizing ever since, and to whose captives and their descendants reparations were paid.

 

Not every bad thing was done with evil intent. Sometimes people embrace bad ideas because of fear, often because that fear is stoked by an organisation that seeks to use it to expand its power and influence.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'm not saying the Circle is really bad. But I'm calling it what it is and what it is by definition is a concentration camp. It concentrates all the mages away from society due to a belief that the mages are too dangerous to remain free and are put in it without a trial or being found guilty of a crime. 

 

Yes, fear the public education gulag and it;s evil goals of teaching mages not to become blood magic wielding demon pawns. Oh how so evil they are with their warm beds, square meals, dry and comfy places to live, and ability to fraternize freely with each other and write letters to their loved ones and friends. You know, just like the actual internment camps.

 

Why not go a step further and call them worse then internment camps. It's not like you haven't finished pissing all over the graves of the dead, why not take a big **** on their memorial as well? Just a big, fat, brown, runny, full of logical fallacies, log of bullshit right up on there.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes, fear the public education gulag and it;s evil goals of teaching mages not to become blood magic wielding demon pawns. Oh how so evil they are with their warm beds, square meals, dry and comfy places to live, and ability to fraternize freely with each other and write letters to their loved ones and friends. You know, just like the actual internment camps.

 

Why not go a step further and call them worse then internment camps. It's not like you haven't finished pissing all over the graves of the dead, why not take a big **** on their memorial as well? Just a big, fat, brown, runny, full of logical fallacies, log of bullshit right up on there.

Again, I don't see the Circle as nearly as bad as any real world examples. If it wasn't for the "You are never allowed to see your family again" thing, I'd fully support the Circle.

 

I think I should point out that all I did was bring up the definition to an already argument of people calling it such, so your hatred is being misdirected. 

[wcholcombe]

Not Dachau, not unless the Rite of Annulment is invoked. Then it starts to have a lot of similarities.

 

No, I think the Circle is more like Manzanar, Tule Lake, Poston, Gila River, Granada, Heart Mountain, Minidoka, Topaz, Rohwer, Jerome, etc.

 

These were some of the internment camps the United States government set up starting in 1942 for families of Japanese ancestry or recent German immigrants after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The camps for which we've been apologizing ever since, and to whose captives and their descendants reparations were paid.

 

Not every bad thing was done with evil intent. Sometimes people embrace bad ideas because of fear, often because that fear is stoked by an organisation that seeks to use it to expand its power and influence.

Except in those camps, those interned didn't have a standard of living superior to that of the common U.S.citizen, whereas the mages in their towers do.

[durasteel]

I disagree.  The idea of having my actions controled and not having free wheel is worse than death.

 

Even in a prison you still have free will.  It may result in you being killed or punished severly but you have free will. Mind control would be far worse than prison or death.

 

I'm sorry, but that's just silly. At some point the blood mage will have accomplished what she wants from you, and the control will end. You have the rest of your life to seek revenge, spend time with your sweetheart, hug your kids, or whatever floats your boat. 

 

You would throw that all away to avoid spending any time as a meat puppet? I think if you were actually faced with that choice, you would choose survival.

[Divine Justinia V]

Until they make you shoot yourself.

Or have their liberities at your expense.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not Dachau, not unless the Rite of Annulment is invoked. Then it starts to have a lot of similarities.

 

No, I think the Circle is more like Manzanar, Tule Lake, Poston, Gila River, Granada, Heart Mountain, Minidoka, Topaz, Rohwer, Jerome, etc.

 

These were some of the internment camps the United States government set up starting in 1942 for families of Japanese ancestry or recent German immigrants after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The camps for which we've been apologizing ever since, and to whose captives and their descendants reparations were paid.

 

Not every bad thing was done with evil intent. Sometimes people embrace bad ideas because of fear, often because that fear is stoked by an organisation that seeks to use it to expand its power and influence.

 

Apologizing for massive corruption, slave labor, rape, murder and worse that went on in those "camps"

 

Its the reason why i find any american finding fault with Germany during the second world war needs to take a long cold calculating look at themselves before even speaking to me why i should apologize for what my family did when theirs did the same thing.

 

The numbers were different, the reasons were different, the methods were different.

 

End result? The same.

[Hellion Rex]

I'm sorry, but that's just silly. At some point the blood mage will have accomplished what she wants from you, and the control will end. You have the rest of your life to seek revenge, spend time with your sweetheart, hug your kids, or whatever floats your boat. 

 

And what happens when they decide to have you commit suicide, hmmm?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Again, I don't see the Circle as nearly as bad as any real world examples. If it wasn't for the "You are never allowed to see your family again" thing, I'd fully support the Circle.

 

I think I should point out that all I did was bring up the definition to an already argument of people calling it such, so your hatred is being misdirected. 

 

Meet finn.

 

 

Finn has a family that he is still close with and who visit him in the circle.

 

Your argument is full of ****, like the log you left by comparing the circle to concentration camps.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Okay. We should really drop this train of thought. It's getting pretty bad. 

[durasteel]

Except in those camps, those interned didn't have a standard of living superior to that of the common U.S.citizen, whereas the mages in their towers do.

 

I suspect that if your freedom were taken away, it wouldn't matter much to you that your prison bed was soft.

[Hellion Rex]

Ok, everyone, let's drop this tangent before it gets worse.

[Hellion Rex]

Back on topic, Templars are evil and must all be annihilated.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Meet finn.

 

 

Finn has a family that he is still close with and who visit him in the circle.

 

Your argument is full of ****, like the log you left by comparing the circle to concentration camps.

Hello, Finn. *waves hand*

 

Oh, I didn't realize that mages were allowed to go home and visit their family when say someone gets married or a baby is born or even for something as simple as the holidays. Oh wait, they aren't. At best they get an hour to visit every who knows how long.

 

Again, Iwas just pointing out that by definition, people can make that argument. I personally avoid doing so for the exact reason happening right now, people immediately think of one of the worst atrocities ever committed in human history.

[leaguer of one]

Meet finn.

 

 

Finn has a family that he is still close with and who visit him in the circle.

 

Your argument is full of ****, like the log you left by comparing the circle to concentration camps.

Untill the events of kirkwall.

 

The fereldin circle was one of the better circle that worked with mages and protected them as the rest of the world from the dangers of magic. Since the event in kirkwall, everything went down hill.

[eyezonlyii]

Along with not having a Templar party member (Alistair doesn't count as he was almost a Templar before being recruited), another thing that makes the presentation one sided is that we never see the abuses by the Templars. We're told about the mages being made tranquil, and yes there was Carl, but he was the only one. There was never a big Templar screw up like the Circle tower in Ferelden or any outward signs of corrupted Templars in Kirkwall. We know Meredith is going crazy because of the idol, but that's it. All other instances of Templars being bad can be traced to "the mages made us do it!"

 

Also we never get to see the good side of an apostate NPC that isn't tied to the main character. Just something to show the positive of living outside of the Circle for mages and the negatives of Templars having both de facto and de jour authority over the mages.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'm sorry, but that's just silly. At some point the blood mage will have accomplished what she wants from you, and the control will end. You have the rest of your life to seek revenge, spend time with your sweetheart, hug your kids, or whatever floats your boat. 

 

You would throw that all away to avoid spending any time as a meat puppet? I think if you were actually faced with that choice, you would choose survival.

 

Let's see what the blood mage could make me do under their control?

 

Murder someone, murder my family, murder my friends, rape someone, rape my family, rape my friends, rape my children, kill my children, sell my children and loved ones to slavery, sell myself to slavery, sell all my belongings and give them to the blood mage, commit suicide, kill an important public figure, rape a important public figure, burn someones house down, burn my own house down, burn my loved ones, burn myself, drown my loved ones and myself, jump off a cliff, throw someone I love off a cliff, castrate myself or someone else, bodily mutilation and disembowelment, and of course kill me and harness my pain and blood to fuel their power.

 

Yeah I'd rather take a ****** bullet then be forced to hurt my family and friends in such horrific ways.

[BlueMagitek]

Back on topic, Templars are evil and must all be annihilated.

 

Oh my.  You, sir, have impugned my honor and I demand satisfaction.

 

Hanako - it's fairly obvious from DA:O that additional privileges are bestowed on mages who earn the trust of the Templar & Senior Enchanters.  Hence Wynne doing what she wants with permission from Irving without a Templar Escort, or her rival going out completely alone to study using magic and herbs.

[durasteel]

And what happens when they decide to have you commit suicide, hmmm?

 

Yeah, much better to take a certain death than the possibility of death. Oh, wait, no... that's nonsense.

[Master Warder Z_]

Again, I don't see the Circle as nearly as bad as any real world examples. If it wasn't for the "You are never allowed to see your family again" thing, I'd fully support the Circle.

 

I think I should point out that all I did was bring up the definition to an already argument of people calling it such, so your hatred is being misdirected. 

 

Its a conflict of interest in the circle though; You give them access to the outside world some of the time and then they will want it all of the time, Remove the choice, the possibility and temptation all together though? Its a superior result. It ensures safety for both parties, mage and civilian alike not to mention it forces a detachment from the world that must exist within the circle.

 

Connection forces both positive and negative to come to light, Abusive families, Lovers, Spouses dying, resent, It invites with it chaos.

 

And that definition doesn't fit the circle in any realistic sense, its not a label applicable in practice.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Hello, Finn. *waves hand*

 

Oh, I didn't realize that mages were allowed to go home and visit their family when say someone gets married or a baby is born or even for something as simple as the holidays. Oh wait, they aren't. At best they get an hour to visit every who knows how long.

 

Again, Iwas just pointing out that by definition, people can make that argument. I personally avoid doing so for the exact reason happening right now, people immediately think of one of the worst atrocities ever committed in human history.

Wilhelm had a kid and lived in a village outside of the circle. His father was able to raise a family outside the circle.

 

Your argument is starting to stain the ground brown.