8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Jensaari, calm.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Yeah, much better to take a certain death than the possibility of death. Oh, wait, no... that's nonsense.

Hoping a person will just let you go after they use you for whatever nefarious mind controlly reason they need to, is also nonsensical.

[Iron Fist]

Back on topic, Templars are evil and must all be annihilated.

 

No, they serve a necessary public service. However, there needs to be greater oversight and transparency.

[BlueMagitek]

Wilhelm had a kid and lived in a village outside of the circle. His father was able to raise a family outside the circle.

 

Your argument is starting to stain the ground brown.

To be fair, it was implied (or was it stated?) that he was granted that as a favor by the King.

[eyezonlyii]

Wouldn't the easiest way be to simply train every (or most) able bodied people in the ways of Templars? Seems to be the best of both worlds: Mages live free and the people can protect themselves. 

 

Win/win

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Its a conflict of interest in the circle though; You give them access to the outside world some of the time and then they will want it all of the time, Remove the choice, the possibility and temptation all together though? Its a superior result. It ensures safety for both parties, mage and civilian alike not to mention it forces a detachment from the world that must exist within the circle.

 

Connection forces both positive and negative to come to light, Abusive families, Lovers, Spouses dying, resent, It invites with it chaos.

 

And that definition doesn't fit the circle in any realistic sense, its not a label applicable in practice.

That would work except that by the time magic presents itself, the person is a child who for years has lived outside it. So now you have children ripped from their parents, and that leads to serious wanting of their parents. This want festers and adds more and more with for example, the inability to marry and start a family of your own. The Circle as a whole is a great idea, but went too far in certain aspects.

[Hellion Rex]

Along with not having a Templar party member (Alistair doesn't count as he was almost a Templar before being recruited), another thing that makes the presentation one sided is that we never see the abuses by the Templars. We're told about the mages being made tranquil, and yes there was Carl, but he was the only one. There was never a big Templar screw up like the Circle tower in Ferelden or any outward signs of corrupted Templars in Kirkwall. We know Meredith is going crazy because of the idol, but that's it. All other instances of Templars being bad can be traced to "the mages made us do it!"

 

Also we never get to see the good side of an apostate NPC that isn't tied to the main character. Just something to show the positive of living outside of the Circle for mages and the negatives of Templars having both de facto and de jour authority over the mages.

Well, I can see a bit of your point about Templar abuses, but we do have Ella.

Although, I will agree that the ratio of good to bad on both sides tends to be unbalanced.

[BlueMagitek]

Wouldn't the easiest way be to simply train every (or most) able bodied people in the ways of Templars? Seems to be the best of both worlds: Mages live free and the people can protect themselves. 

 

Win/win

 Lyrium costs and training.  And then there's giving the entire populace weaponry, which is rarely a good idea in the medieval era.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I suspect that if your freedom were taken away, it wouldn't matter much to you that your prison bed was soft.

 

One could make the argument that society, in it of itself, is a prison of norms and social conformity.

 

So really, what's the difference?

[Master Warder Z_]

That would work except that by the time magic presents itself, the person is a child who for years has lived outside it. So now you have children ripped from their parents, and that leads to serious wanting of their parents. This want festers and adds more and more with for example, the inability to marry and start a family of your own. The Circle as a whole is a great idea, but went too far in certain aspects.

 

Hence why you must crush the notion of the outside world.

 

There is only the circle until you become trust worthy of becoming an exception.

[Hellion Rex]

Wouldn't the easiest way be to simply train every (or most) able bodied people in the ways of Templars? Seems to be the best of both worlds: Mages live free and the people can protect themselves. 

 

Win/win

Except that plan requires a LOT of lyrium to make use of those abilities.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Wouldn't the easiest way be to simply train every (or most) able bodied people in the ways of Templars? Seems to be the best of both worlds: Mages live free and the people can protect themselves. 

 

Win/win

That would be nice, if it were possible. But it seems too difficult, as opposed to just locking up the mages, which is how it should be.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

To be fair, it was implied (or was it stated?) that he was granted that as a favor by the King.

Yes. Wilhelm was a war hero so was granted a pardon.

 

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Wilhelm

[durasteel]

Meet finn.

...

Finn has a family that he is still close with and who visit him in the circle.

 

Your argument is full of ****, like the log you left by comparing the circle to concentration camps.

 

I've visited people in jail and in prison. I know a guy who never lived better than when he was in the federal pen. I sent him Elmore Leonard novels and he got fat on steak dinners. That didn't make him any less a prisoner.

 

You want to talk about an argument full of asterixis, it would have to be this load you're shovelling, implying that mages should be glad for the chance to spend their life in a gilded cage.

[Cainhurst Crow]

 Lyrium costs and training.  And then there's giving the entire populace weaponry, which is rarely a good idea in the medieval era.

 

Everyone can have a gun in my country and we seem to be doing okay.

[Hellion Rex]

Hence why you must crush the notion of the outside world.

 

There is only the circle until you become trust worthy of becoming an exception.

And things like the bolded are why we are in this mess to begin with.

[durasteel]

Ok, everyone, let's drop this tangent before it gets worse.

 

It's just getting interesting.

[Hellion Rex]

Everyone can have a gun in my country and we seem to be doing okay.

Oh lord, let's not start the gun debate here, please.

[Master Warder Z_]

 Lyrium costs and training.  And then there's giving the entire populace weaponry, which is rarely a good idea in the medieval era.

 

One word just needs to be said here.

 

Flotsam.

 

The Commandant did just that well it didn't work.

 

Not against mages mind you, elves but the practice in general just works very poorly.

[eyezonlyii]

 Lyrium costs and training.  And then there's giving the entire populace weaponry, which is rarely a good idea in the medieval era.

 

Except that Alistair says something to the effect that he was conscripted before he had to start taking lyrium. Clearly it's not necessary for the abilities themselves. maybe to make them stronger, but all you would need is like a militia of a few Templars per settlement and then some actual men/women outfitted with lyrium training and the like. 

[Iron Fist]

Everyone can have a gun in my country and we seem to be doing okay.

 

Except the people who die as a result of gun violence.

[BlueMagitek]

Everyone can have a gun in my country and we seem to be doing okay.

Is your country also in the medieval era and ruled by the whim of nobility rather than law?

[Cainhurst Crow]

I've visited people in jail and in prison. I know a guy who never lived better than when he was in the federal pen. I sent him Elmore Leonard novels and he got fat on steak dinners. That didn't make him any less a prisoner.

 

You want to talk about an argument full of asterixis, it would have to be this load you're shovelling, implying that mages should be glad for the chance to spend their life in a gilded cage.

 

The police told them to drop the weapon and they never did, they had to be trailed with their weapons still held in their hands when walking in a no-weapons-allowed zone.

[BlueMagitek]

Except that Alistair says something to the effect that he was conscripted before he had to start taking lyrium. Clearly it's not necessary for the abilities themselves. maybe to make them stronger, but all you would need is like a militia of a few Templars per settlement and then some actual men/women outfitted with lyrium training and the like. 

 

It was made such that Alistair was mistaken, he did take lyrium and did so whenever he needed his powers; he just didn't take it regularily.

[Master Warder Z_]

And things like the bolded are why we are in this mess to begin with.

 

No we are here because a few short sided, stupid and egoistical mages stepped beyond their station and in a moment of chaos kicked a barrel that was already leaning because of prior events.