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[Xilizhra]

Most of the PC mages are "Good Guy" mages. I would personally say the Templars are portrayed far worse in the games than the mages are, which is the issue.  They didn't need to go as overboard with the Templar wrongs to make their point, but I am afraid they went so overboard with trying to portray mages as stupidly bad they had to in order to some how balance it out.  The templars are going to look bad by the point of what they do.  Whether it needs doing or not, they are taking mages freedom away, that will make them look bad and unsympathetic, they should have pulled it off with some templar abuses, but not to degree they did in DA 2, but once they went so crazy stupid overboard in their treatment of mages, they didn't have any choice.

The templars are worse than the mages. This has been consistent across both games and definitely Asunder.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's a really great way of looking at it, thank you

You are quite welcome. I'm glad it helps.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

The templars are worse than the mages. This has been consistent across both games and definitely Asunder.

Templars? Worse than mages? - looks at Tevinter -

lolno

[Steelcan]

Templars? Worse than mages? - looks at Tevinter -

lolno

 

And Anders

[Master Warder Z_]

So then you admit that you have been speaking nonsense. 

 

I admit nothing other then the certainty of an Almighty Push and a cliff being in your near future!

[durasteel]

Most of the PC mages are "Good Guy" mages. I would personally say the Templars are portrayed far worse in the games than the mages are, which is the issue.  ...

 

I think the most unsympathetic characters in DA2 are mages. A blood mage kills your momma, mages kidnap your sibling and try to kill you, and Orsino is, at least in my opinion, the biggest idiot in Thedas (until you kill his ass.)

 

I would say that the discrepancy in portrayal falls more along the line of bad mages being shown as individuals, not representing their fellow mages with their insanity or villainy, whereas the Templars who are show behaving badly often do so in their official capacity and therefore portray the entire Templar order in a negative light.

[Iron Fist]

Do you think they deserve a bit more freedom, or no?

 

They need greater freedom of association, especially with their families. It seems that many mages have at least one non-mage parent. If they had a reason to care about non-mages (beyond the fear of punishment), then mages might generally be better people.

 

Of course, some parents might be afraid of their mage children.

[Hellion Rex]

I admit nothing other then the certainty of an Almighty Push and a cliff being in your near future!

Says the guy who got smacked down by a 15 year old.

[durasteel]

Did you seriously just bring up Calvary in a discussion about Hastings?

 

For Harold's side nonetheless?

 

...

 

I most certainly did not. Harold and the Saxons had no cavalry whatsoever. They had "mobile infantry" that would ride to the battle and then fight on foot, but that's as close as they got.

 

The Normans, however, had cavalry and used it very effectively. In fact, if I remember correctly, the Bayeux Tapestry shows the earliest clear depiction of stirrups.

[Xilizhra]

Templars? Worse than mages? - looks at Tevinter -

lolno

Ah, so you're shuffling the goalposts and referring to "all mages everywhere" instead of the mages we were speaking of in context, namely the ones imprisoned in Andrastian nations?

 

No, the magisters are on the same level as the templars in principle, a bit worse in specific actions. But they aren't in the rebellion.

[Master Warder Z_]

Says the guy who got smacked down by a 15 year old.

 

...Only in the current storyboards.

 

Remember that.

[Master Warder Z_]

I most certainly did not. Harold and the Saxons had no cavalry whatsoever. They had "mobile infantry" that would ride to the battle and then fight on foot, but that's as close as they got.

 

The Normans, however, had cavalry and used it very effectively. In fact, if I remember correctly, the Bayeux Tapestry shows the earliest clear depiction of stirrups.

 

Was going to point out how decisive having Calvary was due to the Harold's lack of it.

 

Seems you get the jist though.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Ah, so you're shuffling the goalposts and referring to "all mages everywhere" instead of the mages we were speaking of in context, namely the ones imprisoned in Andrastian nations?

 

No, the magisters are on the same level as the templars in principle, a bit worse in specific actions. But they aren't in the rebellion.

Well, you did say Templars were worse than mages across both games and Asunder. So, that'd be all Templars across the board in a sense, hmm?

And it isn't imprisonment. If it is, then man Thedas has some nice jails!

[Steelcan]

Correct me if I am wrong but the mages "imprisoned" in Andrastian nations, includes, Anders, a terrorist who killed innocent people to make a political message, Orsino, who willingly collaborated with an apostate murderer, Jowan who manipulated the warden (if a mage) and others to escape punishment of a serious crime AND then poisoned Arl Eamon.  Let's not even mention Uldred.

 

 

On the flip side we have people doing their jobs, sure there are the nuts like Meredith and that one who rapes tranquils, but overall I imagine the body count is lower on the templar side

[Hellion Rex]

Correct me if I am wrong but the mages "imprisoned" in Andrastian nations, includes, Anders, a terrorist who killed innocent people to make a political message, Orsino, who willingly collaborated with an apostate murderer, Jowan who manipulated the warden (if a mage) and others to escape punishment of a serious crime AND then poisoned Arl Eamon.

And that's what...3 mages out of how many within the Circles?

[wcholcombe]

OK, prior to probably the last 30 years, the circles were pretty good to mages and templars and mages worked well together, Rhys talks about it, Wynne talks about it, Wilhelm and Court mages enjoy a lot of freedom, heck the mages in Stolen throne weren't being ordered around by Templars, in fact I think the opposite might have been the case.  Even things in Kirkwall were talked about having more freedom.

 

Something changed after stolen throne and things in the circles got tighter and tigher and worse and worse.

 

May be the templars got freaked out by what happened in Ferelden, maybe a bunch of right wing zealots somehow took power when previously it had been more moderate I don't know, but something changed.

 

The templars have become more hardline, there portrayal in most aspects is one sided abuse and debasement of the mages along with the rare good templar who actually does both jobs of watching and protecting the mages.

 

The mages fall into the same lunacy.  The templars on edge over what has been happening with circles, rather than allowing tham to calm down and we rely on the support of the most powerful woman in the world, we should antagonize them further, with how mages are portrayed often it is one of the great wonders of thedas that an abomination didn't break out in the tower in Orlais.

 

Than you have the Chantry being overly dogmatic in the definition of magic should serve.  The circles worked great for 900 or so years, and I believe you will find that came from cooperation and support, not the garbage that has been pandered to lately for the sake of game drama.

 

Oh and Durasteel, don't call my 16th Great grandfather a bastard!

[Divine Justinia V]

Well, you did say Templars were worse than mages across both games and Asunder. So, that'd be all Templars across the board in a sense, hmm?

And it isn't imprisonment. If it is, then man Thedas has some nice jails!

Yeah, but isn't the Kirkwall Circle terrible? Same with Starkhaven I think? Didn't they say the rooms were really tiny and you were chained to a wall? (correct me if I'm wrong please, it's been a little bit!)

[Xilizhra]

Well, you did say Templars were worse than mages across both games and Asunder. So, that'd be all Templars across the board in a sense, hmm?

And it isn't imprisonment. If it is, then man Thedas has some nice jails!

You'd be surprised at how nice some of the prisons are in countries IRL who are more concerned with rehabilitation than milking nonviolent drug offenders for cheap labor and trying to ensure their recidivism.

 

Anyway, "the mages," noting the word "the," is a general colloquialism on this forum referring to those mages within Andrastian nations who've now seceded from the Chantry and are being attacked by the templars. That is the group of mages to which I was referring. This misunderstanding solved, we may now proceed in a civilized manner.

[Nightdragon8]

I suppose this is true to an extent.

 

Still levy the majority of the blame on the greed, ego and stupidity of mages though.

but here is the problem, because of the way the mages acted, the Templars acted there own way and became seriously hard on the mages, so in turn the mages acted worse, then the Templars did worse. Its a visious cycle that spinned out of control in Kirkwall. Which then radiated everywhere else.

[Steelcan]

And that's what...3 mages out of how many within the Circles?

 

Lets add Grace and her lot into there as well, Uldred and his supporters, those two mages in the mission in Act 3 who are abominations

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Says the guy who got smacked down by a 15 year old.

In his defense, that boy did have to unlock pretty much all of his power to do so.

[durasteel]

Oh and Durasteel, don't call my 16th Great grandfather a bastard!

 

I wouldn't, if your 17th Great Grandfather had been married to that tavern wench he knocked up before going to the holy land on pilgrimage to absolve himself for killing your 17th Great Uncle!

 

Edit: Let me apologize for calling your 17th Great Grandmother a tavern wench. Let's instead call her an angel of libation, shall we?

[wcholcombe]

I wouldn't, if your 17th Great Grandfather had been married to that tavern wench he knocked up before going to the holy land on pilgrimage to absolve himself for killing your 17th Great Uncle!

Yeah, but when you get the title "Conqueror" stuck on the end you aren't supposed to talk about those things anymore.

[Hellion Rex]

Lets add Grace and her lot into there as well, Uldred and his supporters, those two mages in the mission in Act 3 who are abominations

Mhmmm. So we have...20-30 out of how many in Thedas?

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Yeah, but isn't the Kirkwall Circle terrible? Same with Starkhaven I think? Didn't they say the rooms were really tiny and you were chained to a wall? (correct me if I'm wrong please, it's been a little bit!)

 

Kirkwall Circle was pretty bad, though not sure about Starkhaven. They were exceptions, it seems.

You'd be surprised at how nice some of the prisons are in countries IRL who are more concerned with rehabilitation than milking nonviolent drug offenders for cheap labor and trying to ensure their recidivism.

 

Anyway, "the mages," noting the word "the," is a general colloquialism on this forum referring to those mages within Andrastian nations who've now seceded from the Chantry and are being attacked by the templars. That is the group of mages to which I was referring. This misunderstanding solved, we may now proceed in a civilized manner.

Last time I checked, DA wasn't real life. Prisons in the middle ages were horrible. Circles? Heck, I'd live there. Free meals, a place to sleep... Minus your occasional creepy Templar.

And there was no 'misunderstanding'. Now, try to get in the last word again in an insulting matter, it's funny.