123 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

KaiserShep wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Gosh i hope that i won't be forced to drama and crying i want rp and simple i didn't care about leandra then hawke started bi*** about her death damn deal with that i miss the warden <_<

Yes because I'm certain that a normal person would be totally free of concern if their mother was turned into Frankenmage's monster. Hawke's emotional state after All That Remains is kept relatively light, considering its gravity. As for the Warden, I remember that the Cousland Warden, at the very least, was written to show concern for his/her parents no matter what.

My Hawk was even more vigilant with wanting to protect his own after that. Even ending his playboy life style.

[TheKomandorShepard]

KaiserShep wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Gosh i hope that i won't be forced to drama and crying i want rp and simple i didn't care about leandra then hawke started bi*** about her death damn deal with that i miss the warden <_<

Yes because I'm certain that a normal person would be totally free of concern if their mother was turned into Frankenmage's monster. Hawke's emotional state after All That Remains is kept relatively light, considering its gravity. As for the Warden, I remember that the Cousland Warden, at the very least, was written to show concern for his/her parents no matter what.

pc isn't normal person it is player avatar and whether you decide cry or just don't care should be up to you it is like you couln't kill anyone because murder is "evil"... i should decide about who my pc cares or not if he/she cares at all...
well i don't renember this with the warden i could just say
-Child run away with duncan
- ok good luck or something
if i renember correctly whether you care it was up to you...

[leaguer of one]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Gosh i hope that i won't be forced to drama and crying i want rp and simple i didn't care about leandra then hawke started bi*** about her death damn deal with that i miss the warden <_<

Yes because I'm certain that a normal person would be totally free of concern if their mother was turned into Frankenmage's monster. Hawke's emotional state after All That Remains is kept relatively light, considering its gravity. As for the Warden, I remember that the Cousland Warden, at the very least, was written to show concern for his/her parents no matter what.

pc isn't normal person it is player avatar and whether you decide cry or just don't care should be up to you it is like you couln't kill anyone because murder is "evil"... i should decide about who my pc cares or not if he/she cares at all...
well i don't renember this with the warden i could just say
-Child run away with duncan
- ok good luck or something
if i renember correctly whether you care it was up to you...

I agree with you but....


At times it's ok to assume when the person is "that "close to you...

[TheKomandorShepard]

leaguer of one wrote...

 agree with you but....


At times it's ok to assume when the person is "that "close to you...

In rpg worst thing is when game or devs assume in what way pc would respond when it should be completely up to player how pc reacts on certain events in think that dao did pretty much nice (not perfect) job doing that even if you romanced someone game never assumed that you had care about li you could but you didn't had to ,it had some consequences...

pretty much i hated when in daa my warden kneel before alistair/anora without simple giving dialogue option if my warden should do that or not it was moment screwing with my character...

Pretty much i don't like done protagonists like shepard like hawke who i control only partially when game assume what my pc would do so they felt rather as direct protagonist of shooter game than rpg... 

[Arcanis]

I seriously disagree.
There are things that are called "reflexes" and things that are called "emotions",
which are both things we can't control.
I think when it comes to things your character things about the player should give the input,
according to the input given (plus the character background) the rest can/should be determind.
If you can control every bit of the character, then it isn't a character - it is nothing more
than a puppet. And I -personally- dislike playing puppet protagonists because they feel
disconnected and soulless.
About your example in DA:O: This is commen etiquette, according to the law of most
monarchys (especially those of days gone) being disrespectfuly towards your ruler would
would be punished by execution, thus most people do such routines automatic -and why not?

Also: if you are in an (optional) romance with someone, you (should) like him/her, that means
you care about that person. If you do not care about that person, why are you in a relationship?

[leaguer of one]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

 agree with you but....


At times it's ok to assume when the person is "that "close to you...

In rpg worst thing is when game or devs assume in what way pc would respond when it should be completely up to player how pc reacts on certain events in think that dao did pretty much nice (not perfect) job doing that even if you romanced someone game never assumed that you had care about li you could but you didn't had to ,it had some consequences...

pretty much i hated when in daa my warden kneel before alistair/anora without simple giving dialogue option if my warden should do that or not it was moment screwing with my character...

Pretty much i don't like done protagonists like shepard like hawke who i control only partially when game assume what my pc would do so they felt rather as direct protagonist of shooter game than rpg... 

So it's bad to assume that you and your character is going to be sad that a person they  openly loved is dead?

It has to be taste fully done. There bad ways to do it like the case with the Warden and there good ways to do it like with Femshep cry of Thane's death.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 16 février 2014 - 04:13 .

[Zombie_Alexis]

I would have liked more time to mourn Leandra in DA2. When you click on Sebastian after "All That Remains", he tells you he put up a remembrance (I think that's what he called it) to her in the Chantry. I would have liked to have been able to go to the Chantry to see it. Also, in my first play through, Leandra died right before "Demands of the Qun" and Aveline says something like "He's not at his best right now" when I asked her why the Viscount isn't handling it, and I thought "But my mother was just murdered!" and I really would have liked an option to bring that up.

Just an aside, I have to say "The Captain's Condolences" always, always makes me cry. Maybe because Aveline's description of her father's illness was very much like my Dad's, but I find it very moving every time.

[KaiserShep]

In order to create an emotionless slab, you'd have to get rid of cut scenes to avoid any kind of reaction on the part of the PC, or simply have the PC stand there with the "reaction" button so you can choose to show surprise, sadness, etc. I guess in TKS's case, maybe Leandra's reveal should have had the  icon. It would have tons of hits on Youtube, with amusing comments to follow.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 16 février 2014 - 04:22 .

[KaiserShep]

lol

[Navasha]

The problem is that players are people and people grieve differently. As a roleplaying game, you don't want to have the writers spell out a mourning scene that the player doesn't respond too. By definition, any pre-written scene is not going to work for all players.

Bringing it up too often is far more likely to disconnect from the players more than just ignoring it altogether.

Bioware is pretty good about finding the balance.

[Br3admax]

I think it's okay to make the 2% of people that wouldn't cry over their mother dying angry.

[ziloe]

Navasha wrote...

The problem is that players are people and people grieve differently. As a roleplaying game, you don't want to have the writers spell out a mourning scene that the player doesn't respond too. By definition, any pre-written scene is not going to work for all players.

Bringing it up too often is far more likely to disconnect from the players more than just ignoring it altogether.

Bioware is pretty good about finding the balance.

It's a piece of dialogue though, that I'm discussing. If you don't feel that way for that character, you don't have to initiate it. Just as you don't have to comment on commentary that is there that may have to do with elves, just because you may be one. It's an option for those of us who want it for more depth of character, that's all.

Modifié par ziloe, 16 février 2014 - 05:08 .

[Wulfram]

I tend to assume that my character does much of their grieving off screen. Aside from avoiding the occasional moments in ME3 where the dialogue really seemed off without an acknowledgement of the death of X - which I assume were mostly because so many characters could die at various points - I'm OK with that.  I don't find people being sad very interesting in itself.

I may also let grief have an effect on dialogue by, for example, picking more renegade choices, but I don't see the need for explicit references to the dead guy.

Modifié par Wulfram, 16 février 2014 - 05:16 .

[KaiserShep]

Br3ad wrote...

I think it's okay to make the 2% of people that wouldn't cry over their mother dying angry.

Sea turtles never even see their mothers.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 16 février 2014 - 05:58 .

[leaguer of one]

KaiserShep wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I think it's okay to make the 2% of people that wouldn't cry over their mother dying angry.

Seat turtles never even see their mothers.

We're sea turtles and sea turtles play video games?

[KaiserShep]

Yes.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Chaoticos wrote...

I seriously disagree.
There are things that are called "reflexes" and things that are called "emotions",
which are both things we can't control.
I think when it comes to things your character things about the player should give the input,
according to the input given (plus the character background) the rest can/should be determind.
If you can control every bit of the character, then it isn't a character - it is nothing more
than a puppet. And I -personally- dislike playing puppet protagonists because they feel
disconnected and soulless.
About your example in DA:O: This is commen etiquette, according to the law of most
monarchys (especially those of days gone) being disrespectfuly towards your ruler would
would be punished by execution, thus most people do such routines automatic -and why not?

Also: if you are in an (optional) romance with someone, you (should) like him/her, that means
you care about that person. If you do not care about that person, why are you in a relationship?

Not rlt not in rpg pc is player avatar and it is player who set their political view , religious view , ideals , future plans ,morality or li.... game shouldn't tell my pc what he/she should fell or follow in life thats ready protagonist that are mostly in other types of game like action games etc...

whether my warden followed law or even respected that was up to me if he didn't such thing is ass pull toward how i played my pc...

Not rly i never had to feel something to li i could play with them in dao and then in the end i would tell them that in face what my pc feel should be up to me and that is calling creating your own character if you want ready character play other types of games...

leaguer of one wrote...

So it's bad to assume that you and your character is going to be sad that a person they  openly loved is dead?

It
has to be taste fully done. There bad ways to do it like the case with
the Warden and there good ways to do it like with Femshep cry of Thane's
death.

I should decide who my pc loves (if he/she loves someone at all) not game and even if my character loved someone doesn't mean that he sould cry if you want crying sure i don't mind more options to rp more happy im but please don't force that on my character and don't tell me what my character should do because i don't tell you that every inquisitor should be rapist to add some spice and we don't control character emotions... and i hope when such situation comes it will be more than
-*cry*
-"suck a di*** bi***"

Last thing i want is shepard like protagonist when we have 2 ready characters paragon and renegade and our role ends here...
 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's the thing, Kommandor. It is not YOUR PC, it is Bioware's. All we as the player do is guide the character through the story.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

That's the thing, Kommandor. It is not YOUR PC, it is Bioware's. All we as the player do is guide the character through the story.

Not rly unless they do another shepard or hawke (who mostly will be defined protagonist with little control over them and i hope not) if they more classical rpg pc it will mine character created by me in terms of personality or pshycal apparence not bio... and as for warden we deciced his ideals , futhure plans , view points or how he feels about others and many other things his personality was completly bulit by player so otherwise without player the warden is blank doll and player fill it...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

That's the thing, Kommandor. It is not YOUR PC, it is Bioware's. All we as the player do is guide the character through the story.

Not rly unless they do another shepard or hawke (who mostly will be defined protagonist with little control over them and i hope not) if they more classical rpg pc it will mine character created by me in terms of personality or pshycal apparence not bio... and as for warden we deciced his ideals , futhure plans , view points or how he feels about others and many other things his personality was completly bulit by player so otherwise without player the warden is blank doll and player fill it...

Every RPC character in existence has been scripted. For example, Warden can't just leave Ferelden.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

That's the thing, Kommandor. It is not YOUR PC, it is Bioware's. All we as the player do is guide the character through the story.

Not rly unless they do another shepard or hawke (who mostly will be defined protagonist with little control over them and i hope not) if they more classical rpg pc it will mine character created by me in terms of personality or pshycal apparence not bio... and as for warden we deciced his ideals , futhure plans , view points or how he feels about others and many other things his personality was completly bulit by player so otherwise without player the warden is blank doll and player fill it...

Every RPC character in existence has been scripted. For example, Warden can't just leave Ferelden.

lol and how without playing game do you want play game simple every game have to just have to have plot (well outside shell games) even even skyrim you can ignore main plot but eventually to finish game you need start do main quests or just hit exit button that normal proces but why we doing that and as who we are doing that is up to us pretty much like in baldurs gate we had to go after irenicus but why or as who (villain ,anti-hero or hero) was up to you... 

so we controled our character but we were had to do main plot always...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 16 février 2014 - 08:59 .

[Nefla]

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

 agree with you but....


At times it's ok to assume when the person is "that "close to you...

In rpg worst thing is when game or devs assume in what way pc would respond when it should be completely up to player how pc reacts on certain events in think that dao did pretty much nice (not perfect) job doing that even if you romanced someone game never assumed that you had care about li you could but you didn't had to ,it had some consequences...

pretty much i hated when in daa my warden kneel before alistair/anora without simple giving dialogue option if my warden should do that or not it was moment screwing with my character...

Pretty much i don't like done protagonists like shepard like hawke who i control only partially when game assume what my pc would do so they felt rather as direct protagonist of shooter game than rpg... 

So it's bad to assume that you and your character is going to be sad that a person they  openly loved is dead?

It has to be taste fully done. There bad ways to do it like the case with the Warden and there good ways to do it like with Femshep cry of Thane's death.

It's not bad to assume someone would be sad if their loved one died, but it is bad to assume their reaction. Some people show grief plain and simple, crying and looking sad. Others show grief through anger or self destruction, some hide their feelings behind a mask of calm or humor, and still others are not capable of open emotion or sharing and they bottle everything up. I also think it's bad to decide what the player is sad about and to what extent, especially when the tragic event is poorly written, more boring or ridiculous than sad for most people, and very forced. How many people cried when that random kid died at the beginning of ME3? I didn't. It was a random NPC you see for 5 seconds, but the game decided that even completely evil, mass murdering Shepards were so distraught over one random kid that they had weird PTSD about it the entire game.

Things like dodging out of the way of an attack in a cutscene or asking "what do you mean?" are fine and dandy, but if I wanted the game to decide how my character acts, and feels then I would play a game with a fixed protagonist.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

That's the thing, Kommandor. It is not YOUR PC, it is Bioware's. All we as the player do is guide the character through the story.

Not rly unless they do another shepard or hawke (who mostly will be defined protagonist with little control over them and i hope not) if they more classical rpg pc it will mine character created by me in terms of personality or pshycal apparence not bio... and as for warden we deciced his ideals , futhure plans , view points or how he feels about others and many other things his personality was completly bulit by player so otherwise without player the warden is blank doll and player fill it...

Every RPC character in existence has been scripted. For example, Warden can't just leave Ferelden.

lol and how without playing game do you want play game simple every game have to just have to have plot (well outside shell games) even even skyrim you can ignore main plot but eventually to finish game you need start do main quests or just hit exit button that normal proces but why we doing that and as who we are doing that is up to us pretty much like in baldurs gate we had to go after irenicus but why or as who (villain ,anti-hero or hero) was up to you... 

so we controled our character but we were had to do main plot always...

What I meant is, the player never has the option to roleplay as someone who for example thinks the only way to beat the Blight is to go to Orlais and get their assistance. Or for your example, you had to go after Irenius. What is you wanted to roleplay someone who didn't want to? The reason is because the character is fixed, and what you do is simply guide them down the course to the objective. With the limited space of data on games, an unfortunate truth is that "your" character is limited in reactions and choice. This goes for personality as well as plot roleplaying.