264 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Let's think about this for a moment. Weigh the merits. There have been discussions in the past about the necessity of groups like Cerberus (or lack thereof), particularly before they were recast as the lolindoctrinated Ivory Mook Brigade of ME3. But are the Spectres so different?

Here we've got a guy who the Citadel Council puts on a podium in view of the entire galaxy and basically gives them unlimited power to do whatever they want to enforce the Council's will. In addition to the old saw about absolute power corrupting absolutely (Kill three hundred thousand people? (Pent)house arrest. Kill seventeen million? *crickets*), wouldn't such an agent immediately become an assassination target by just about anyone with a bone to pick with the Council? Their identities aren't exactly kept secret. In retrospect it makes sense that Shepard runs around in armor every time (s)he steps off the boat in the first two games.

Just thought I'd see if we could spark a discussion. If ME4 is set post-Reaper war, do you want to see the Office of SPEcial Tactics and REconnaisance disbanded? How about extralegal species-interest organizations like (ME2) Cerberus?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 17 février 2014 - 03:50 .

[KotorEffect3]

Every government needs somebody that will do the dirty work. The spectres exist so the council can have what needs to be done taken care of without getting involved officialy. Sure it makes the council a bit hypocritical at times but you don't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

[DeinonSlayer]

Personally, I'd like to see the Council itself disbanded with a more representative central galactic government in place post-war. No single person should have the kind of power that the Council grants to the spectres, renouncing all accountability. Any government that assumes it has that kind of right has lost its legitimacy - it's a tyranny.

I'd have liked to pull a gun in Khalisah al-Jilani's presence and say that I could shoot her dead right in front of her audience and nobody could do a thing about it, just to starkly get the point across to the public at large exactly what the practice entails. Publicly embarrassing the Council like that would probably be more likely to get them to revoke SPECTRE status than actually shooting her.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 17 février 2014 - 03:58 .

[Darks1d3]

I remain conflicted with this idea myself. I know this doesn't have anything to do with SPECTREs, but as garrus said, the galaxy needs a few ruthless dictators from time to time. Maybe I read the God emperor of dune a few too many times.

SPECTREs are merely an extension of this idea. Sometimes you do need someone who isn't bound by rules to make necessary decisions. But then there's the issue of "who do give such power to?" As saren proved, the council doesn't always choose the right individuals.

Shepard also proves this if you decided to say "screw the council!" in ME1. I guess in a way, it's poetic justice.

*shrug* I lack the personal experience to answer this question objectively.

[Steelcan]

I think the cat is out of the bag with them.

It'd take something extraordinary for them to be disbanded

[Darks1d3]

StreetMagic wrote...

Darks1d3 wrote...

Maybe I read the God emperor of dune a few too many times.

You know how that turned out though. Leto was just trolling everyone. He gained so much absolute power and godhood status that people would be sick of ever seeing it again. That's what his longterm plan was. To destroy the need for gods or messiahs or absolute powers... but he had to torment the galaxy first before they could appreciate that.

That is also true. "No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero."

Damn. Now you're sparking other ideas in my mind. But I don't want to derail the thread.

[MrFob]

I thnk the concept made sense when I read Revelation for the first time because there (and to some extent also in ME1), the galaxy seemed like a really big place. So big in fact, that you simply can't govern it like, say, a state on earth. There are regions in the galaxy which are rather thinly populated, under dispute or even fully claimed by criminals and terrorists. It's more comparable to the wild west in this regard, where you don't have an easy method of communication or transportation. Under these circumstances, a flexible, fully empowered authority figure may make sense.
In ME2 and especially ME3, it seems that the galaxy gets smaller and smaller, though. With QECs everywhere and the galactic infrastructure seeming much more developed, it would be much easier to keep authority centralized and just send agents who observe, report and can only take action n direct orders from the council.
Also, one has to keep in mind that the council does not have other means of direct intervention in galactic affairs. They don't have an army or a fleet beyond CSec (and they don't go beyond the surroundings of the Citadel itself). Otherwise, authority purely lies within the individual governments of the different races. It's not surprising that the council would at least have an agency which can operate beyond these borders (similar to the UN or InterPol). But yea, the extent of SPECTRE authority sure seems very wide.

As for Shepard's publicity, I think that was just because he was the first human SPECTRE. I doubt the council makes the identity of all their agents known (in fact, we know they don't, since Anderson didn't even know how many there are). So that's a special case.

Modifié par MrFob, 17 février 2014 - 04:11 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I'll bet there are a lot of people like this that exist IRL, only they aren't known about to all, what to say of celebrated.


Whether or not that's a good or bad thing, I cannot rightly know. My folks have always been big on the idea of putting freedom over security, almost uncompromisingly, yet I don't share their conviction. I'd like to think these kinds of government agents are not necessary and cause more trouble than they're worth, but then I have a hard time believing that a big governmentt with so many citizens and economic interests to account for can truly handle all matters of security by-the-book.

[CrutchCricket]

Yes they are necessary, and no they will not go away. If the current form no longer works, they'll simply adopt a new one.

The idiocy in their implementation was as you say, making them public.

[DeinonSlayer]

Regarding Shepard's publicity, perhaps a more appropriate approach:

"I need to see your clearance!"
"And you are right to insist." *scans in*
VI: "COUNCIL OVERRIDE. FULL ACCESS."
"My apologies. A Council spectre will, of course, have our full cooperation... I, I'm not sure what... I see no listing of rank or name..."
"I have neither. Like this facility, I don't exist."

[MrFob]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Regarding Shepard's publicity, perhaps a more appropriate approach:

"I need to see your clearance!"
"And you are right to insist." *scans in*
VI: "COUNCIL OVERRIDE. FULL ACCESS."
"My apologies. A Council spectre will, of course, have our full cooperation... I, I'm not sure what... I see no listing of rank or name..."
"I have neither. Like this facility, I don't exist."

But Kai Leng is the one with the sword in Mass Effect, not Shepard.

[DeinonSlayer]

MrFob wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Regarding Shepard's publicity, perhaps a more appropriate approach:

"I need to see your clearance!"
"And you are right to insist." *scans in*
VI: "COUNCIL OVERRIDE. FULL ACCESS."
"My apologies. A Council spectre will, of course, have our full cooperation... I, I'm not sure what... I see no listing of rank or name..."
"I have neither. Like this facility, I don't exist."

But Kai Leng is the one with the sword in Mass Effect, not Shepard.

You just had to ruin the moment!

[Darks1d3]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

MrFob wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Regarding Shepard's publicity, perhaps a more appropriate approach:

"I need to see your clearance!"
"And you are right to insist." *scans in*
VI: "COUNCIL OVERRIDE. FULL ACCESS."
"My apologies. A Council spectre will, of course, have our full cooperation... I, I'm not sure what... I see no listing of rank or name..."
"I have neither. Like this facility, I don't exist."

But Kai Leng is the one with the sword in Mass Effect, not Shepard.

You just had to ruin the moment!

www.youtube.com/watch]Salt Upon Wounds[/url]

EDIT- Thank you to both Steelcan and Streetmagic.

Modifié par Darks1d3, 17 février 2014 - 04:41 .

[Steelcan]

Darks1d3 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

MrFob wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Regarding Shepard's publicity, perhaps a more appropriate approach:

"I need to see your clearance!"
"And you are right to insist." *scans in*
VI: "COUNCIL OVERRIDE. FULL ACCESS."
"My apologies. A Council spectre will, of course, have our full cooperation... I, I'm not sure what... I see no listing of rank or name..."
"I have neither. Like this facility, I don't exist."

But Kai Leng is the one with the sword in Mass Effect, not Shepard.

You just had to ruin the moment!

Salt Upon Wounds www.youtube.com/watch

For my future reference, how do you alter a link so you can include it in a phrase? For example, I want my words "Salt upon Wounds" to be the link.

[url=LINK ]What you want to be seen[/ url]

[Steelcan]

MrFob wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Regarding Shepard's publicity, perhaps a more appropriate approach:

"I need to see your clearance!"
"And you are right to insist." *scans in*
VI: "COUNCIL OVERRIDE. FULL ACCESS."
"My apologies. A Council spectre will, of course, have our full cooperation... I, I'm not sure what... I see no listing of rank or name..."
"I have neither. Like this facility, I don't exist."

But Kai Leng is the one with the sword in Mass Effect, not Shepard.

Kai Leng just got better because he was compared to The Operative


The Operative can't be made bad, even by Kai Leng

[DeinonSlayer]

Darks1d3 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

MrFob wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Regarding Shepard's publicity, perhaps a more appropriate approach:

"I need to see your clearance!"
"And you are right to insist." *scans in*
VI: "COUNCIL OVERRIDE. FULL ACCESS."
"My apologies. A Council spectre will, of course, have our full cooperation... I, I'm not sure what... I see no listing of rank or name..."
"I have neither. Like this facility, I don't exist."

But Kai Leng is the one with the sword in Mass Effect, not Shepard.

You just had to ruin the moment!

Salt Upon Wounds www.youtube.com/watch

For my future reference, how do you alter a link so you can include it in a phrase? For example, I want my words "Salt upon Wounds" to be the link.

*disgusted sigh* Shepard, why did you not pull up and scrape his worthless ass off on one of the four bridges you flew under between when he landed and when you drew your gun?

I do hate that scene so very very much... *grinds teeth*

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 17 février 2014 - 04:35 .

[Br3admax]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Regarding Shepard's publicity, perhaps a more appropriate approach:

"I need to see your clearance!"
"And you are right to insist." *scans in*
VI: "COUNCIL OVERRIDE. FULL ACCESS."
"My apologies. A Council spectre will, of course, have our full cooperation... I, I'm not sure what... I see no listing of rank or name..."
"I have neither. Like this facility, I don't exist."

I'm sorry, but that's so cheesy.

[Iakus]

It's as good an idea as the person you make a Spectre is

[DeinonSlayer]

@Br3ad Ever seen the movie "Serenity?"

@MrFob re: Interpol, as much as I hate to Godwin my own thread, it's notable that Reinhard Heydrich of all people (chairman of the Wannsee Conference, Hangman of Prague) was president of that organization.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 17 février 2014 - 04:49 .