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[Lotion Soronarr]

But Kaiser - a mage, even a duplicious bastard that supported the guy who killed your mother, is always better and more righteous than a filthy templar!

[Xilizhra]

Why should he lives his life according to his siblings wishes? F*** the player and his convenience, that game had a great family dynamic. It's exactly because there was such a colorful interaction that the family felt more real.

In terms of story, I actually have no problem with him making such a decision; I just want to kill him if he does.

 

Seems weird to want to trade Cullen's life for the guy that knew about Quentin's crazy necromancy. Hell had the option presented itself I would probably have killed Orsino myself strictly out of principle before he could get the chance to become a harvester, despite supporting the mages in the end.

Well, Orsino never participated in any genocides, so that's a major incentive right there. I personally would have wanted to be more forceful in talking him down, rather than just saying one thing and then standing there stupidly while he performed that ritual.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ahh... the "Anullment is the most evil thing ever! No one should ever even consider it!" schtick

[Xilizhra]

Ahh... the "Anullment is the most evil thing ever! No one should ever even consider it!" schtick

Very true. It's probably the most evil decision one can make in either DA game.

[AresKeith]

Very true. It's probably the most evil decision one can make in either DA game.

Lol No

And please stop with the moral superiority

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xil doesn't believe in necessary evils...unless it's the mages that are committing it.

Then it's uber-necessary and you're a horrible person for even questioning it.

[Xilizhra]

Xil doesn't believe in necessary evils...unless it's the mages that are committing it.

Then it's uber-necessary and you're a horrible person for even questioning it.

I consider "necessary evil" to be an oxymoron; if it's necessary, it isn't evil. But the Annulment is very obviously not necessary.

[LobselVith8]

Ahh... the "Anullment is the most evil thing ever! No one should ever even consider it!" schtick

Meredith's asinine reason for ordering the Right of Annulment, and Cullen being present when the Knight-Commander admits that she called it to appease a hypothetical lynch mob, could be significant contributing factors for Xil.

[KaiserShep]

Very true. It's probably the most evil decision one can make in either DA game.

 

Frankly, I think giving Fenris to Danarius is a bit worse, even if it's just one person. As for the Right of Annulment, I will agree, however, that in the context of DA2, it's pretty evil, since Meredith was very clearly batsh*t to call for it under those circumstances.

[Xilizhra]

Frankly, I think giving Fenris to Danarius is a bit worse, even if it's just one person. As for the Right of Annulment, I will agree, however, that in the context of DA2, it's pretty evil, since Meredith was very clearly batsh*t to call for it under those circumstances.

That decision involves more personal cruelty, but the impact is vastly smaller.

[LobselVith8]

Frankly, I think giving Fenris to Danarius is a bit worse, even if it's just one person. As for the Right of Annulment, I will agree, however, that in the context of DA2, it's pretty evil, since Meredith was very clearly batsh*t to call for it under those circumstances.

I agree that it's cruel, but I'd put the mass execution of hundreds of men, women, and children higher on the list. Speaking of the Tevinter elf, I wonder if Fenris left to be with Sebastian in Starkhaven, given how close they were. He apparently didn't stay involved with Isabela.

[Xilizhra]

I agree that it's cruel, but I'd put the mass execution of hundreds of men, women, and children higher on the list. Speaking of the Tevinter elf, I wonder if Fenris left to be with Sebastian in Starkhaven, given how close they were. He apparently didn't stay involved with Isabela.

I think they might have split over the whole Hawke thing. That was the line Fenris wouldn't cross even when Sebastian pointed out that they should turn Merrill and Anders in, even though Fenris hates both of them.

[Lebanese Dude]

Lol No
And please stop with the moral superiority

So murdering a whole group of people indiscriminately is less evil thn betraying a companion?

I'm pretty sure humanity in general agrees that genocide is be biggest evil of all, especially when it includes children.

Then again, those that commit said genocide dont see it as evil and they're humans too, so I suppose its a relative viewpoint.

[AresKeith]

So murdering a whole group of people indiscriminately is less evil thn betraying a companion?
I'm pretty sure humanity in general agrees that genocide
is be biggest evil of all, especially when it includes children.
Then again, those that commit said genocide dont see it as evil and they're humans too, so I suppose its a relative viewpoint.

>implying that it's the death of all mages everywhere

And people are also using the word genocide poorly

[Lebanese Dude]

>implying that it's the death of all mages everywhere
And people are also using the word genocide poorly

It's the systematic killing of all mages in a location, no matter their affiliation with the problem that lead to the invocation to begin with.

If you kill 500 people because five people killed a child, it is genocide, even if it can be argued that the perpetrators had it coming.

Scope is irrelevant here, especially since we have no idea what the population of Thedas is. All that matters is that a significsnt subcategory of humanoids are being killed indiscriminately. This alone qualifies the usage of the term "genocide"

[AresKeith]

It's the systematic killing of all mages in a location, no matter their affiliation with the problem that lead to the invocation to begin with.
If you kill 500 people because five people killed a child, it is genocide, even if it can be argued that the perpetrators had it coming.
Scope is irrelevant here, especially since we have no idea what the population of Thedas is. All that matters is that a significsnt subcategory of humanoids are being killed indiscriminately. This alone qualifies the usage of the term "genocide"

If a circle gets compromised by Blood Mage and demon possession then yes Annulment is necessary action to take

[KaiserShep]

So murdering a whole group of people indiscriminately is less evil thn betraying a companion?

I'm pretty sure humanity in general agrees that genocide is be biggest evil of all, especially when it includes children.

Then again, those that commit said genocide dont see it as evil and they're humans too, so I suppose its a relative viewpoint.

 

I don't agree with the invocation of the Right of Annulment in that instance, because there was no uncontrollable chaos at the Circle just yet, but it is a necessary evil should the worst occur. The Circle in Ferelden is a fairly reasonable example of where the Right may be necessary should the Templars or outside assistance fail in gaining control. Uldred was successfully turning mages who had passed their harrowing into abominations, and if the Warden didn't step in, the same would have happened to Irving.

[Xilizhra]

I don't agree with the invocation of the Right of Annulment in that instance, because there was no uncontrollable chaos at the Circle just yet, but it is a necessary evil should the worst occur. The Circle in Ferelden is a fairly reasonable example of where the Right may be necessary should the Templars or outside assistance fail in gaining control. Uldred was successfully turning mages who had passed their harrowing into abominations, and if the Warden didn't step in, the same would have happened to Irving.

No it wasn't. All you have to do is kill all the demons, you don't need to extend this to other mages.

[SamaraDraven]

I don't agree with the invocation of the Right of Annulment in that instance, because there was no uncontrollable chaos at the Circle just yet, but it is a necessary evil should the worst occur. The Circle in Ferelden is a fairly reasonable example of where the Right may be necessary should the Templars or outside assistance fail in gaining control. Uldred was successfully turning mages who had passed their harrowing into abominations, and if the Warden didn't step in, the same would have happened to Irving.

 

The Circle in DAO was contained. Granted demons ran rampant inside but I think the Rite of Annulment was just too easy. A cop-out. When battling a mage, it becomes pretty clear who is an abomination and who isn't. Templars can nullify a mage's talent so subduing them should be doable especially with reinforcements. Mages who are able to resist to an unrealistic degree are the ones I'd assume to be abominations. I don't see why it wasn't possible to detain them and then send trusted, uncorrupted mages into the Fade to free those under demonic possession. The Warden found the Litany of Adralla which saved the mages from possession during the showdown with Uldred. Once he was gone, and the immediate crisis quelled, I think it would have been possible to assess and save more mages than if they had simply killed them all. That's what my Warden does every time for Connor and the Circle. In DAO, the Warden was trusted to make such decisions. So was Hawke. If either of them was a mage, no one really and truly thought twice about asking for help or if they weren't a mage and sent someone else, that wasn't questioned either. I'd agree with killing abominations as a last resort and death is imminent in a fight  -you know, kill or be killed- but I doubt the Templars even try detainment first. They probably don't even look into how it might be done. They should be trying to save mages from possession - you know, protect them like the Order once decreed it would do... That has been and always will be my biggest problem with the Order: it claims it is protecting everyone including mages but it's clear that everyone else is being protected by the mages' subjugation. I may think they need oversight and training and perhaps registration but not torture and abuse or to be cut down for being a victim of demons.

[AresKeith]

No it wasn't. All you have to do is kill all the demons, you don't need to extend this to other mages.

And DA2 shows that it's not as easy as that since abominations can disguise themselves

And Kaiser said if the Warden or Templars fail to do so then the AoU would be necessary

[Xilizhra]

And DA2 shows that it's not as easy as that since abominations can disguise themselves

And Kaiser said if the Warden or Templars fail to do so then the AoU would be necessary

Well, how nice for Kaiser. And abominations cannot disguise themselves well, or for very long, and exposing them isn't that hard.

[Grieving Natashina]

Er, Wilmod showed no signs of anything wrong (other than maybe being a little pale) until Cullen was confronting him.  We honestly have no idea how short or long the demon could have stayed hidden among the Templar ranks.

[Steelcan]

Er, Wilmod showed no signs of anything wrong (other than maybe being a little pale) until Cullen was confronting him.  We honestly have no idea how short or long the demon could have stayed hidden among the Templar ranks.

Shhhhhh don't make sense, you'll start a riot

[Ispan]

And DA2 shows that it's not as easy as that since abominations can disguise themselves

 

Isn't this idea the very reason that Aeonar is used as a prison for maleficarum and suspected blood mages?  The veil is thin so the demons/abominations are easier to ferret out.

 

And then... we go and make that seem silly when...

 

 And abominations cannot disguise themselves well, or for very long, and exposing them isn't that hard.

 

...Anders made it look super easy to determine if someone is possessed when he shot a little magic bolt at Keran in Enemies Among Us.  Makes the it seem silly to slaughter all the mages if it's that easy.

[SamaraDraven]

Er, Wilmod showed no signs of anything wrong (other than maybe being a little pale) until Cullen was confronting him.  We honestly have no idea how short or long the demon could have stayed hidden among the Templar ranks.

 

But that's just it. It didn't take much confrontation to expose the demon. In a situation where abominations were running around, some harsh interrogation should expose most of them. Or do what Anders did. It just doesn't seem that hard to expose them if you're looking for them.