420 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

No it wasn't. All you have to do is kill all the demons, you don't need to extend this to other mages.

 

You are ignoring that I'm establishing this strictly as a last resort option. Whether or not you like it, it's an option that must be considered should all others fail. So, the question is, if the attempt to kill Uldred fails and Irving and the other senior mages succumb to demonic possession or killed by possessed templars and demons, what should Greagoir do? How would this scenario be resolved with minimal risk of abominations escaping the tower? 

[Veruin]

But that's just it. It didn't take much confrontation to expose the demon. In a situation where abominations were running around, some harsh interrogation should expose most of them. Or do what Anders did. It just doesn't seem that hard to expose them if you're looking for them.

It didn't take much confrontation since the demon was cornered.  You've got a stone cliff to his back, Cullen on his right and Hawke&Co on his left. I'd imagine the demon form is more powerful than the human form and thus has a better chance of surviving.

 

It's not like Cullen asked a couple questions in the courtyard.

 

"How's your day Wilmod"

 

"PATHETIC MORTAL, YOU HAVE SCREWED WITH ME FOR THE LAST TIME"

 

"Wut".

[Grieving Natashina]

But that's just it. It didn't take much confrontation to expose the demon. In a situation where abominations were running around, some harsh interrogation should expose most of them. Or do what Anders did. It just doesn't seem that hard to expose them if you're looking for them.

That's the problem though.  Why would any suspect that a Templar would be an abomination?  That's a point that is overlooked by the forum posters, the players, and we've got the third person view.   Most Templars were very startled by the idea.  Only Cullen suspected, and that was after hours of close contact with several abominations.  We still don't know how long the interrogation with Wilmod took place. I'd guess at least a few hours.

 

In that climate in Kirkwall, few would let a mage near a Templar to check for demons, much less take them at their word.

 

"How DARE  that mage accuse me of such things?  I have loyally served the Templars for years."

 

"True enough. Only a blood mage would accuse an innocent Templar of such impossible depravity!"

[Xilizhra]

Er, Wilmod showed no signs of anything wrong (other than maybe being a little pale) until Cullen was confronting him.  We honestly have no idea how short or long the demon could have stayed hidden among the Templar ranks.

Cullen knees him, Wilmod immediately springs into attack mode. Exposing abominations is not hard.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Cullen knees him, Wilmod immediately springs into attack mode. Exposing abominations is not hard.

No, Cullen knees him, threatens his life, and even brings a sword to his neck.

[KaiserShep]

It's just as likely that possessed Wilmod felt he could act freely since it's only Cullen and a few other people. He could have killed the whole lot of them and then disappear into the mountains. 

[Veruin]

No, Cullen knees him, threatens his life, and even brings a sword to his neck.

In which case it became a do or die situation.

[Grieving Natashina]

No, Cullen knees him, threatens his life, and even brings a sword to his neck.

That's also after Wilmod said, "Please sir, don't hit me again!"  We only watched Cullen hit Wilmod once.  It seemed to imply that this had been going on for awhile before Hawke showed up.

[Xilizhra]

You are ignoring that I'm establishing this strictly as a last resort option. Whether or not you like it, it's an option that must be considered should all others fail. So, the question is, if the attempt to kill Uldred fails and Irving and the other senior mages succumb to demonic possession or killed by possessed templars and demons, what should Greagoir do? How would this scenario be resolved with minimal risk of abominations escaping the tower? 

Um... kill all the demons, again?

 

 

That's also after Wilmod said, "Please sir, don't hit me again!"  We only watched Cullen hit Wilmod once.  It seemed to imply that this had been going on for awhile before Hawke showed up.

He doesn't say "again." Just "don't hit me." I also base this on what Anders says about abominations if you use him to test Keran.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

In which case it became a do or die situation.

Exactly. The demon had no choice but to reveal itself or else it would have been killed since Cullen seemed to have been going to kill him regardless of if it revealed itself or not.

 

 

I also base this on what Anders says about abominations if you use him to test Keran.

I wouldn't trust an abomination to be a good spokesman for how easy it is to discover abominations. It's easy to do it when you have a spirit inside you.

[Grieving Natashina]

Okay, I'll have to replay that part to double check the dialogue. 

 

That still doesn't change the fact though: The Templars would have no reason to suspect that there were abominations in their ranks.  I also think that the players came in towards the end of Cullen's interrogation of Wilmod, and that it had been going on for awhile.  So, if it wasn't for Cullen being paranoid, Templars could have probably had demons being smuggled among their ranks for a long time and with no one suspecting.

 

As far as mages being sent to test Templars, see my previous post.  No one in Kirkwall would have trusted them, including a (pre-insane) Meredith.

[KaiserShep]

Um... kill all the demons, again?

 

Great plan. So what if they fail to kill the demons without killing the mages in the process? No matter how one slices it, if the Circle is overrun with demons, it must be quarantined until it's determined that the demons are dead, one way or the other. What I'm gathering is that the Templars must try to save the mages even if it means they all die in the process, but if they all die in the process, that leaves the very good possibility that abominations will escape. 

[LobselVith8]

I wouldn't trust an abomination to be a good spokesman for how easy it is to discover abominations. It's easy to do it when you have a spirit inside you.

 

Merrill seemed to have a more effective method of testing if Kerran was possessed, since she was able to discern that there were no demons through his blood. Of course, I don't think the templars would sanction her methods.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Merrill seemed to have a more effective method of testing if Kerran was possessed, since she was able to discern that there were no demons through his blood. Of course, I don't think the templars would sanction her methods.

True, but Merrill is a blood mage, so like you said I don't think the Templars would advocate that as viable testing for abominations.

[Shadow Fox]

Then he's a damned idiot and I still would feel no guilt about blowing his head off in The Last Straw, for participating in the Annulment. I wish I could, in fact. I'd gladly trade his life for Orsino's.

 

 

Ugh, Sebastian...

The guy who risks his neck to keep you out of the Gallows vs the guy who helped your mother's killer..really Xilizhra?

 

And frankly if you spared Anders and justify what he did you have no right to condemn Carver or Cullen of condoning genocide.

[Grieving Natashina]

True, but Merrill is a blood mage, so like you said I don't think the Templars would advocate that as viable testing for abominations.

And an apostate. And a Dalish elf.  That's a triple whammy.

[Xilizhra]

The guy who risks his neck to keep you out of the Gallows vs the guy who helped your mother's killer..really Xilizhra?

 

And frankly if you spared Anders and justify what he did you have no right to condemn Carver or Cullen of condoning genocide.

Well, firstly, that doesn't follow, as the Chantry explosion wasn't an attempt to wipe out any group in particular. However, I've said before that I wouldn't have done what Anders did. I spared him because he's my friend, as well as a powerful mage, and I need his help; I also agree with Merrill: "He should come with us. Do what he can to set things right."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And an apostate. And a Dalish elf.  That's a triple whammy.

That's like going to the Qunari in Inquisition as a Female Vashoth Mage. You can't get more insulting than that.

[KaiserShep]

True, but Merrill is a blood mage, so like you said I don't think the Templars would advocate that as viable testing for abominations.

 

I know, right? I prefer to bring her on that quest line just for that. Oh if only Cullen knew my testing methods. 

[AresKeith]

The guy who risks his neck to keep you out of the Gallows vs the guy who helped your mother's killer..really Xilizhra?

 

And frankly if you spared Anders and justify what he did you have no right to condemn Carver or Cullen of condoning genocide.

 

Are you really surprised by this though?

[Shadow Fox]

Well, firstly, that doesn't follow, as the Chantry explosion wasn't an attempt to wipe out any group in particular. However, I've said before that I wouldn't have done what Anders did. I spared him because he's my friend, as well as a powerful mage, and I need his help; I also agree with Merrill: "He should come with us. Do what he can to set things right."

So basically mass murder of innocents is acceptable as long as the people killed don't have a label on them?And Carver is your brother and a powerful Templar yet you just admitted you'd happily murder him.

[Xilizhra]

So basically mass murder of innocents is acceptable as long as the people killed don't have a label on them?And Carver is your brother and a powerful Templar yet you just admitted you'd happily murder him.

If I could have stopped Anders, I would have, but I was unable to do so. If I can prevent Carver from doing any more harm, even if it's by lethal means, I'll do so.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Except he's already stopped and turned on Meredith by the time he reached Hawke. Secondly, how can you possibly know Anders won't do any further harm if you spare him? Given that he was fanatical enough to blow up a building, it strikes me as unlikely.

[Steelcan]

Except he's already stopped and turned on Meredith by the time he reached Hawke. Secondly, how can you possibly know Anders won't do any further harm if you spare him? Given that he was fanatical enough to blow up a building, it strikes me as unlikely.

 

It reminds me of the BDtS situation in ME1, let a terrorist go, who then goes on to commit more terrorist acts, or stop him then and there at the expense of a few lives

[Xilizhra]

Except he's already stopped and turned on Meredith by the time he reached Hawke. Secondly, how can you possibly know Anders won't do any further harm if you spare him? Given that he was fanatical enough to blow up a building, it strikes me as unlikely.

He was with Meredith right at the beginning if he was a templar. As for Anders... it's a gamble, but I couldn't just kill him out of hand, and it seems that he does improve if he joins you.

 

 

It reminds me of the BDtS situation in ME1, let a terrorist go, who then goes on to commit more terrorist acts, or stop him then and there at the expense of a few lives

Of course, if he lives, he joins the fight against the Reapers.