Merrill seemed to have a more effective method of testing if Kerran was possessed, since she was able to discern that there were no demons through his blood. Of course, I don't think the templars would sanction her methods.
But they have no problem sanctioning gathering a mages blood and using it in a phylactery.
No difference except one is a templar and one is a mage.
Of course, if he lives, he joins the fight against the Reapers.
After he tries his damnedest to kill as many humans as possible.
Besides, you can always imprison him (my personal choice) instead of outright killing him
Balak's non terrorist replacement can also bring the Batarian Fleet against the Reapers but I can see Shepard rationalizing that he or she can hope to stop Balak before he does anything worse at the time of Bring Down the Sky, but whether you apply that same rationalization to Anders or not, I don't see his situation as being any different from Templar Carver.
He was with Meredith right at the beginning if he was a templar. As for Anders... it's a gamble, but I couldn't just kill him out of hand, and it seems that he does improve if he joins you.
Of course, if he lives, he joins the fight against the Reapers.
So? You can't do anything about any mages he may have killed before, just like you can't do anything about the people Anders killed before you decide his fate.
So? You can't do anything about any mages he may have killed before, just like you can't do anything about the people Anders killed before you decide his fate.
I wouldn't kill him necessarily if the Annulment had stopped... but I would make him stand down with the others and allow the mages to leave.
I wouldn't kill him necessarily if the Annulment had stopped... but I would make him stand down with the others and allow the mages to leave.
I get the impression that the Champion basically diverted attention away from the mages who were fleeing, given how Varric addresses there were "many survivors" with this course of action; I doubt that the protagonist would step in to stop the Right of Annulment and protect as many men, women, and children as possibly, only to abandon them after Meredith turned into a red lyrium statute.
It didn't take much confrontation since the demon was cornered. You've got a stone cliff to his back, Cullen on his right and Hawke&Co on his left. I'd imagine the demon form is more powerful than the human form and thus has a better chance of surviving.
It's not like Cullen asked a couple questions in the courtyard.
"How's your day Wilmod"
"PATHETIC MORTAL, YOU HAVE SCREWED WITH ME FOR THE LAST TIME"
"Wut".
You're right. In Wilmod's case who would have known before Cullen cornered him? I was referring to the Rite of Annulment that Meredith and Greagoir invoked. My argument is that, since there were abominations running about, the templars already knew demons were involved, the hidden abomination tactic wouldn't work and they'd be within their right to question the mages as Cullen questioned Wilmod. Not question to find answers and discover a demon but interrogate with the assumption of possession to provoke the demon out of hiding. My point was that the Rite of Annulment wasn't necessary in DAO or DA2 since, once cornered, it's pretty easy to expose the demon hiding in a mage. Again, I'm speaking of a situation where demons are already a known quantity. It's not pretty but bullying them enough to expose their demons makes it possible to free the affected mages rather than simply killing them all "just in case". And Wilmod's demon didn't take much bullying before coming out. Demons aren't too bright, methinks. Since it is possible to save a mage from possession, as we learned with Connor, I think it's worth it to try and think it's an unnecessary cruelty that the Order doesn't even make the attempt yet they claim part of their mandate is to protect mages.
Wilmonds demon was a weak/stupid one.
If all it takes to bring out a demon is a insult or two or a punch, then there would be no need for the Circles.
Wilmonds demon was a weak/stupid one.
If all it takes to bring out a demon is a insult or two or a punch, then there would be no need for the Circles.
Well said and my thoughts as well. <hat tip>
Wilmonds demon was a weak/stupid one.
If all it takes to bring out a demon is a insult or two or a punch, then there would be no need for the Circles.
Templar training exercise 101: Spot the demon.
Things to look for:
-Unexpected leave of absence
-Heightened sensitivity to kick in the groin
-Mimics the Cobra Commander voice
Templar training exercise 101: Spot the demon.
Things to look for:
-Unexpected leave of absence
-Heightened sensitivity to kick in the groin
-Mimics the Cobra Commander voice
I always pictured Skeletor's myself.
Not to mention the possibiltiy of abuse
Regular beatings will be scheduled to expose the demons!
You run into a templar beating a mage.
"I'm doing a routine demon possession check. Carry on citizen!"
Ah, but what if the mage in question is a masochist? Or being possessed by a Desire demon with masochistic tendencies? Or both?
[/parody paranoia]
Wilmonds demon was a weak/stupid one.
If all it takes to bring out a demon is a insult or two or a punch, then there would be no need for the Circles.
Um... well, it's kind of ideal to keep demons from possessing anyone in the first place. And demons who don't warp the physical body of their vessel are very rare to begin with.
Are they?
Demons are perfectly capable of controlling the body of their host - it's just that in general they have little needs to control their appearance.
I'd say that in most cases the demon in question has just "arrived" (and thus was still disoriented) or saw no need for hiding (Broken Circle)
And wouldn't in general the demons that are best at hiding be also the most powerful and dangerous ones?
Are they?
Demons are perfectly capable of controlling the body of their host - it's just that in general they have little needs to control their appearance.
I'd say that in most cases the demon in question has just "arrived" (and thus was still disoriented) or saw no need for hiding (Broken Circle)
And wouldn't in general the demons that are best at hiding be also the most powerful and dangerous ones?
Actually, the only abominations who didn't mutate their hosts have been either willing ones, or could have been willing.
Connor was willing.
Marethari was presumably willing.
Evelina was willing; Walter's testimony shows that she turned into an abomination to kill the templars chasing her, but apparently shifted back into human form afterward and was "ashamed," hence running away and hiding. It's behavior consistent with Connor, and no unwilling abomination has ever thrown off demonic influence.
Uldred was ambiguous, but could easily have been willing, especially since the demon considered itself a continuation of Uldred in a way; most abominations seem to discard their human identities altogether.
And Wilmod was an anomaly, being a demon specifically bound by a mage into a host it wouldn't normally enter.
Actually, the only abominations who didn't mutate their hosts have been either willing ones, or could have been willing.
Connor was willing.
Marethari was presumably willing.
Evelina was willing; Walter's testimony shows that she turned into an abomination to kill the templars chasing her, but apparently shifted back into human form afterward and was "ashamed," hence running away and hiding. It's behavior consistent with Connor, and no unwilling abomination has ever thrown off demonic influence.
Uldred was ambiguous, but could easily have been willing, especially since the demon considered itself a continuation of Uldred in a way; most abominations seem to discard their human identities altogether.
And Wilmod was an anomaly, being a demon specifically bound by a mage into a host it wouldn't normally enter.
So, they didn't mutate their hosts, but they turned into desire demons/pride demons/abominations when they were about to start a fight for their life/power.
Ok?
So, they didn't mutate their hosts, but they turned into desire demons/pride demons/abominations when they were about to start a fight for their life/power.
Ok?
Yes, they can shift between human and demonic forms. Marethari actually shows this off in the fight itself, going from elf to demon and back again.
Not to mention the possibiltiy of abuse
Regular beatings will be scheduled to expose the demons!
You run into a templar beating a mage.
"I'm doing a routine demon possession check. Carry on citizen!"
I did not say there should be interrogations without cause. In the event of a catastrophe such as Broken Circle or The Last Straw where demons are a known entity, detaining mages who were there and questioning them seems like a possible solution to me. And I don't agree that they should be beat. Anders tried exposing a possible demon in Keran with a bit of harmless magic. There's no reason that can't be done again. But let's say some rough treatment, like what Wilmod received, is how you expose a hiding demon: Wilmod wasn't seriously injured. If it's that easy to expose one demon, it's possible to expose others. And it's possible to free the mages from them. Sure is better than simply slaughtering all the mages on the account of possible possession. Again, I'm referring to the instances in which the Rite of Annulment was invoked. I find it to be a lazy duty. Far easier to subdue and kill people than try to protect them. This debate was originally about whether the Rite was necessary in any situation. I think it isn't.
As for how well a demon can hide? That depends on the demon. The majority seem to have been minor demons without much cunning and who give themselves away too easily. Desire demons have been the only ones I can recall maintaining their human's form and being clever enough to hide well. Yet still their behavior typically is far too different to go unnoticed. In situations like Broken Circle, where mages are running scared, it seems most are taken by lesser spirits. Who knows? If the templars tried saving the mages instead of annulling them, there'd be far fewer possessions in such situations. I believe the Circles should be there to protect mages. I think that may have been what was originally intended but it was forgotten at some point. Then again, if the Order actually treated mages as citizens to be protected, there would probably be far fewer Broken Circles to begin with. It's a chicken-and-the-egg kind of thing, it seems.
As for how well a demon can hide? That depends on the demon. The majority seem to have been minor demons without much cunning and who give themselves away too easily. Desire demons have been the only ones I can recall maintaining their human's form and being clever enough to hide well.
I agree with your points. We even had a Pride demon in the Free Marches that remained completely unnoticed for an entire decade, all the while masquerading as a city's ruler, with none the wiser.
I agree with your points. We even had a Pride demon in the Free Marches that remained completely unnoticed for an entire decade, all the while masquerading as a city's ruler, with none the wiser.
haha! "It's good to be the king!" 
Pride demons are the highest ranking demon, I think. Or are they second to desire demons? Ironically, I think it's probably easier for a clever demon to hide in people of power versus everyday citizens - mage or not. The populace would be too afraid to question their ruler and the demon would have access to resources to keep their secret under wraps. So they'd only appear to be yet another dictator and Thedas has had those before so it wouldn't seem strange. Most people would just bow their heads and hope some day soon he or she will be overthrown.
I agree with your points. We even had a Pride demon in the Free Marches that remained completely unnoticed for an entire decade, all the while masquerading as a city's ruler, with none the wiser.
Erm i'm drawing a blank here...
Whom are you talking about?
He doesn't seem to have been a mage.
It calls him an abomination, plus if you look to the info section, it puts his class as a mage.
It calls him an abomination, plus if you look to the info section, it puts his class as a mage.
Then how was he a ruler?
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