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[Veruin]

It calls him an abomination, plus if you look to the info section, it puts his class as a mage.

Well, technically, all abominations are mages.  Hence why mana clash works on them.

[pallascedar]

I need to learn how to delete posts because double posting is bad.

[pallascedar]

He doesn't seem to have been a mage.

Abominations don't need to be mages. A powerful demon can enter any body given given a weaker veil. Mages are just the easiest targets because they are already connected to the fade.

[dragonflight288]

Abominations don't need to be mages. A powerful demon can enter any body given given a weaker veil. Mages are just the easiest targets because they are already connected to the fade.

 

Well, yes and no. Anyone can get possessed, but the devs confirmed that an abomination is only created when a mage gets possessed as the demon has their own power plus the mages, whereas every other case the demon has their own power, what kind of demon they are plus the characteristics of what they're possessing. Hence, sylvans are really nothing more than giant trees, walking corpses are ripped from the Walking Dead and so forth. 

[GVulture]

Khedra, from Dragon Age Legends.

The Black Marsh what's her face was a Pride Demon abomination as well, wasn't she? Living in the human body for centuries?

[Grieving Natashina]

The Black Marsh what's her face was a Pride Demon abomination as well, wasn't she? Living in the human body for centuries?

Ah, the Baroness.  She was a regular mage, that made a deal for power.  The Pride demon eventually consumed her and she was in the Fade along with the rest of the folk of Blackmarsh after she pulled them all there.  She comments that she was actually quite surprised that she had made it onto the material plane at all, just before most players whip her ugly butt.

[Hellion Rex]

Ah, the Baroness.  She was a regular mage, that made a deal for power.  The Pride demon eventually consumed her and she was in the Fade along with the rest of the folk of Blackmarsh after she pulled them all there.  She comments that she was actually quite surprised that she had made it onto the material plane at all, just before most players whip her ugly butt.

That's where stuff gets funky. The story said that she actually became a creature of Pride, because she fed on the souls of all those she had cursed into the Fade.

[GVulture]

That's where stuff gets funky. The story said that she actually became a creature of Pride, because she fed on the souls of all those she had cursed into the Fade.

So... a fledgling demon that was born in the physical realm instead of the Fade? Or a mage that made a deal?

[Hellion Rex]

So... a fledgling demon that was born in the physical realm instead of the Fade? Or a mage that made a deal?

She's probably the latter. It's just the way that it was explained was a little funky. She probably just made a deal in the Fade after everyone got cursed.

[Grieving Natashina]

So... a fledgling demon that was born in the physical realm instead of the Fade? Or a mage that made a deal?

This is what is known.  From the wiki:

 

 

Long ago, a particular high dragon settled near the Blackmarsh, wrecking chaos upon its residents. One night, the Baroness came and traveled to the dragon's lair. The next day, the dragon had disappeared, presumed dead, and while rumors circulated that the Baroness must have been a blood mage to have brought down such a beast, the grateful townsfolk paid them no heed.

 

The Baroness later became the Orlesian ruler of the Blackmarsh during Orlais' occupation of Fereldan, but her rule was marked by oppression, violence and injustice. She was, in fact, a blood mage and paid great amounts for the young girls to come to her mansion in order to restore her youth. The Baroness met her end when her subjects turned on her and burned down her mansion. With one last spell, the Baroness pulled all of their spirits into the Fade, trapping them in a nightmarish version of the Blackmarsh itself.

 

 ...Together with Justice, you must confront the Baroness, who, during the long years spent in the Fade feeding on the peasants' spirits, has become a Pride Demon so powerful that she's able to enter the mortal world even without a body to possess. She does, however, express surprise towards the extent of her power, being previously ignorant of her capacity of doing so.

 

 

 

Reading that reminds me: I need to finish the Castless session during Origins so can get back to Awakening and can kick her sorry heiny again.  That was a great fight.

[GVulture]

 

This is what is known.  From the wiki:

 

 

 

Reading that reminds me: I need to finish the Castless session during Origins so can get back to Awakening and can kick her sorry heiny again.  That was a great fight.

 

So it was that her spirit in the Fade slowly turned into a Demon after being trapped there. Woof. Good thing we got Eamon out then. =p

[Grieving Natashina]

So it was that her spirit in the Fade slowly turned into a Demon after being trapped there. Woof. Good thing we got Eamon out then. =p

Yeah, pretty much.

 

Wait, how did we get from Cullen to the Baroness?    I think I missed a couple of conversation branches here...

[dragonflight288]

Yeah, pretty much.

 

Wait, how did we get from Cullen to the Baroness?    I think I missed a couple of conversation branches here...

 

Umm.....magic conversation? We should be made tranquil for using unsanctioned magic.....

 

I won't tell if you won't. 

[Ispan]

Well, it's been a good conversation and... all good things stem from Cullen?

[Battlebloodmage]

Deep within each of us is a piece of Cullen so doesn't matter what we talk about, we would just go back to Cullen. That's what I called Cullenoscopy. 

[Lulupab]

Deep within each of us is a piece of Cullen so doesn't matter what we talk about, we would just go back to Cullen. That's what I called Cullenoscopy. 

 

Each of us need a good smiting now and then, like Isabela mentions. I heard Cullen is good at smiting.

[Grieving Natashina]

Deep within each of us is a piece of Cullen so doesn't matter what we talk about, we would just go back to Cullen. That's what I called Cullenoscopy. 

Ew. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Actually, the only abominations who didn't mutate their hosts have been either willing ones, or could have been willing.

 

Connor was willing.

Marethari was presumably willing.

Evelina was willing; Walter's testimony shows that she turned into an abomination to kill the templars chasing her, but apparently shifted back into human form afterward and was "ashamed," hence running away and hiding. It's behavior consistent with Connor, and no unwilling abomination has ever thrown off demonic influence.

Uldred was ambiguous, but could easily have been willing, especially since the demon considered itself a continuation of Uldred in a way; most abominations seem to discard their human identities altogether.

 

And Wilmod was an anomaly, being a demon specifically bound by a mage into a host it wouldn't normally enter.

 

Actually, WoG states it depends entirely on the demon.

 

 

I did not say there should be interrogations without cause. In the event of a catastrophe such as Broken Circle or The Last Straw where demons are a known entity, detaining mages who were there and questioning them seems like a possible solution to me. And I don't agree that they should be beat. Anders tried exposing a possible demon in Keran with a bit of harmless magic. There's no reason that can't be done again. But let's say some rough treatment, like what Wilmod received, is how you expose a hiding demon: Wilmod wasn't seriously injured. If it's that easy to expose one demon, it's possible to expose others. And it's possible to free the mages from them. Sure is better than simply slaughtering all the mages on the account of possible possession. Again, I'm referring to the instances in which the Rite of Annulment was invoked. I find it to be a lazy duty. Far easier to subdue and kill people than try to protect them. This debate was originally about whether the Rite was necessary in any situation. I think it isn't.

 

There is nothing simple about detecting demons.

Wilmonds case was special in two ways - the demons was forcefully bound and it was a rage demon (weakest and stupidest).

AFAIK, there is no reliable method for detecting demons.

 

 

In situations like Broken Circle, where mages are running scared, it seems most are taken by lesser spirits. Who knows? If the templars tried saving the mages instead of annulling them, there'd be far fewer possessions in such situations.

 

You make it sound like they ran the second the first abomination appeared.

The templars did try, but it was chaos and they were pushed back.

Only then was the Annulment called.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Then how was he a ruler?

 

He hid the fact that he was a mage?

[Xilizhra]

Actually, WoG states it depends entirely on the demon.

Source plz.

 

He hid the fact that he was a mage?

So an apostate was able to sneak into power and somehow falsify having a noble bloodline as well? Unless his parents managed to somehow train him well enough to hide his skill for so long... which would imply that Isolde was right and only unlucky when she picked Jowan.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Source plz.

 

I'll try to dig it up.

I think it was from the codex, stating that abominations control of the possessed body varies.

Depending how quickly the demon adapts and how powerful he is.

There was also a discussion with DG, but that was a long time ago, on the old forums.

 

 

However, the experience of entering the physical realm is overwhelming to the weaker demons, and abominations are often driven mad by the unfamiliar sensations, turning into monstrosities and going on a rampage.^[5][6] The most powerful demons are able to adapt to the new form and even maintain the original physical shape of their host in particular, when the possession is accepted willingly.

 

 

So an apostate was able to sneak into power and somehow falsify having a noble bloodline as well? Unless his parents managed to somehow train him well enough to hide his skill for so long... which would imply that Isolde was right and only unlucky when she picked Jowan.

 

Well, it certainly is possible to hide being a mage. The most dangerous is the early phase. Being a noble - and thus living secluded in a castle/mansion and not in plain view of the villages - certainly helps.

After all, Isolde did manage to keep Connor a secret for a while.

[SamaraDraven]

Actually, WoG states it depends entirely on the demon.

 

 

 

 

There is nothing simple about detecting demons.

Wilmonds case was special in two ways - the demons was forcefully bound and it was a rage demon (weakest and stupidest).

AFAIK, there is no reliable method for detecting demons.

 

 

 

 

You make it sound like they ran the second the first abomination appeared.

The templars did try, but it was chaos and they were pushed back.

Only then was the Annulment called.

 

In Broken Circle they had the mages locked behind a door in a tower. They were waiting for reinforcements so they could go in and kill them all. Therefore, I think it would have been possible to do the opposite. =D And I draw my inference that detecting demons isn't that hard because Anders, an abomination and a mage, is probably the closest thing to an expert Thedas has on the subject.

 

As for Wilmod... I thought a forceful possession caused the host to become obviously disfigured? So Wilmod had to have at least accepted it or the demon that took him had to be more powerful than a rage demon. According the Dragon Age wiki, Wilmod transforms into a shade and a shade, according to the wiki, is thought to be a demon in true form as it appears outside the Fade or the spirit of the dead that returned. There's also mention in the wiki that some scholars believe a shade's confusion in the world leaves them unable to possess the living or dead. So... very confusing canon there.

 

Nevertheless, I still think if the Templars turned their attention and resources toward helping mages; they'd surprise themselves with what they could do. But then the Chantry wouldn't be able to maintain control of the mages and, by extension the rest of the people, if mages were seen as actual people instead of entities to be feared, used and controlled. I would like to see the Circles evolve to educate and protect mages. And the templars to investigate dark magic and serve all the people. Considering everything else we've seen of the Order and the Circles, I do see knights like Cullen and Keran and Mages like Irving and Wynne as the best hope for achieving this.

[Ispan]

As for Wilmod... I thought a forceful possession caused the host to become obviously disfigured? So Wilmod had to have at least accepted it or the demon that took him had to be more powerful than a rage demon. According the Dragon Age wiki, Wilmod transforms into a shade and a shade, according to the wiki, is thought to be a demon in true form as it appears outside the Fade or the spirit of the dead that returned. There's also mention in the wiki that some scholars believe a shade's confusion in the world leaves them unable to possess the living or dead. So... very confusing canon there.

 

When you rescue Keran he says that he didn't accept anything the demons offered him when he was imprisoned.  Maybe Wilmod accepted their offers so, despite the fact that it started as kidnapping and imprisonment, he willingly accepted a demon's offer?  That's what I assumed at least when I played through.

[LobselVith8]

When you rescue Keran he says that he didn't accept anything the demons offered him when he was imprisoned.  Maybe Wilmod accepted their offers so, despite the fact that it started as kidnapping and imprisonment, he willingly accepted a demon's offer?  That's what I assumed at least when I played through.

 

That's what happened to the mages in the Circle Tower who became possessed; abomination Uldred tortured them into accepting his offer.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's what happened to the mages in the Circle Tower who became possessed; abomination Uldred tortured them into accepting his offer.

 

"Do you accept the gift i offer?"-Uldred