300 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

OP, the LIs weren't all bisexual in Dragon Age II, Gaider has already explained this. Hawke was just a Black Hole Sue.

Hawke was many things but a sue he/she was not.

What would Gaider know?

He called Hawke a sue? How the hell is Hawke a sue? In particular a Black Hole Sue. http://tvtropes.org/...n/BlackHoleSue]

In particular this bit

The very laws of the universe bend to accommodate her. If there's only one in a million chance she could succeed at something, she'll accomplish it with flying colors. If the logical outcome of the story would end in her failure, a Deus ex Machina will ensure her victory. Nothing is too implausible for her to accomplish, whether it be going from Rags to Royalty, killing an Eldritch Abomination, or bringing about world peace. If she is so inclined, she may do all that before sitting down to a breakfast consisting of the original story.

Abomination? Hawke doesn't actually kill it. Stop war? Nope. Can't even save his own damn familyl.

How in the hell is Hawke a sue. (I can't even call him a fail sue cause he does succeed at minor ****).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 février 2014 - 03:53 .

[Chrom72]

In an ideal world (well, my ideal world anyway) there would be 2 straight, 2 gay, and 2 bi. That way every gender has 4 possible LI options in every playthrough, and 2 of their target gender. I'm not sure if Bioware will have the resources for that. Then again, it would still probably be less combined content than all of the various ME3 romances (major and minor). Would some of you be as mad if the romances were equally limited for everyone?

[Orian Tabris]

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Here I am trying to find time to play Halo with friends after school....

*hugs* 

I'd play with you...but I'm not a halo fan.

I thought you played PC anyways?

That too

Damned PC master race, I only play strategy games on PC, and recently DA:O

With Dragon Age, it's PC master race, or nothing.

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Here I am trying to find time to play Halo with friends after school....

*hugs* 

I'd play with you...but I'm not a halo fan.

I thought you played PC anyways?

That too

Damned PC master race, I only play strategy games on PC, and recently DA:O

Join ussssssss. <3

[Steelcan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Here I am trying to find time to play Halo with friends after school....

*hugs* 

I'd play with you...but I'm not a halo fan.

I thought you played PC anyways?

That too

Damned PC master race, I only play strategy games on PC, and recently DA:O

Join ussssssss. <3

I thought about moving my ME stuff to PC, but then I realized all the DLC I'd have to buy again

[DeinonSlayer]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

If you're too oblivious to the intention behind your words then that's your problem. Regardless, that is what you're implying with such distribution. 4 out of 9? No, in term of people you can romance, it's 3 out of 3 for the straight option and 1 out of 3 for the gay option. There is no restriction for who you want to romance, even the "gay" or "bisexual" one, but for the people who want to romance character of the same gender, they're stuck with just one. Most of ME2's romances like Miranda, Jack, Thane don't have as much scenes (initimate scene or goodbye scenes) or dialogues as the ones I name, except for Ashley, I keep forgetting him. Still, if you save Kaidan, that would be the ideal distribution. You basically want everyone to be "playersexual" for you because you can romance everyone but want to put restriction for others who want to romance someone of the same gender.

At the risk of getting my head bitten off...

In the US, approximately 3.8% of the population identifies as homosexual, bisexual or transgender (notably, in Washington DC this spikes to 10%). Now, I acknowledge that the US is not the end-all, be-all by any means, and the rate may or may not be significantly different in other countries, but I'd think a population of hundreds of millions of people in a free nation which is far less hostile to the demographic than, say, Russia serves as a decent sample.

In light of this, it seems to me this demographic is already more than adequately represented (if not vastly overrepresented) in modern media. Now before someone pounces on me for "homophobia" let's get one thing straight: I have no problem with this demographic or their presence in media. I have a problem with the idea that they have to be there; that writers should feel compelled to include them in a hyperexaggerated one-to-one ratio or be denounced as bigots.

Bioware can and will do whatever they want, as is their right. That's just my take on the situation. I'd think pandering would be just as offensive as mockery.

[daveliam]

KC_Prototype wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

KC_Prototype wrote...

I hope not. I prefer what the did with DA:O and ME3. I hope for 4 straight romances and 2 bi ones. Player sexual romances are just unbelievable.

Basically you want to romance everyone possible, but not for other people? I agree with ME3, 2 gay, 2 straight, 2 bi. That's actually what they have in term of in-dept romance. 2 gay (Traynor, Cortez), 2 straight (Garrus, Tali), 2 bi (Kaidan, Liara). The rest is just minor romance. 

I didn't say that. I said 4 straight romances and 2 bi ones. 4 out of 9 isn't everyone. Also, How was Ashley's romance minor? Same with Miranda's?

The issue with this, as many people have pointed out to you many times is that your "preferred" way gives straight players multiple options but gay players a single option.  That is, in my opinion, totally unfair.  By making it 2 straight, 2 bi, and 2 gay, everyone gets two options and you still have set sexualities.  Why would you advocate to give some players three times the amount of options than others?  It just makes no sense unless you are trying to purposefully restrict content for some players.

[Orian Tabris]

Chrom72 wrote...

In an ideal world (well, my ideal world anyway) there would be 2 straight, 2 gay, and 2 bi. That way every gender has 4 possible LI options in every playthrough, and 2 of their target gender. I'm not sure if Bioware will have the resources for that. Then again, it would still probably be less combined content than all of the various ME3 romances (major and minor). Would some of you be as mad if the romances were equally limited for everyone?

This.

BioWare seems to think that player/bi-sexual companions are equally limited for everyone. It's true, but it just seems like an easy way out. Like a way of avoiding facing the fact that you can't please everyone all the time.

I suspect some people prefer roleplay options for the players, rather than for the game, itself. The way I wrote that last sentence sounds like I think having all player/bi-sexual companions is pandering to fans or providing fanservice.

[Fast Jimmy]

Not to be a nitpick, but 3.8% of the U.S. population would not be hundreds of millions. It would barely be over ten million.

Not to downplay that number, nor insist that any such numbers alone should somehow determine any sort of business or any other entities actions, just thought I would clear the math up a little.

EDIT: Unless I misread, and you were talking about the TOTAL U.S. population being hundreds of millions. In which case, my apologies.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 18 février 2014 - 04:00 .

[Ryzaki]

Chrom72 wrote...

In an ideal world (well, my ideal world anyway) there would be 2 straight, 2 gay, and 2 bi. That way every gender has 4 possible LI options in every playthrough, and 2 of their target gender. I'm not sure if Bioware will have the resources for that. Then again, it would still probably be less combined content than all of the various ME3 romances (major and minor). Would some of you be as mad if the romances were equally limited for everyone?

Honestly I'd be fine with 2/2/2 it'll suffice. Everyone's equally restricted.

[spirosz]

Bioware should do no romances for a future game.

[Mr.House]

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I finally got DA:O Ultimate Edition so I finally got the Alistair Voodoo doll, so much fun....


I agree, FemHawke and Shep leave much to be desired

XD

And yeah part of the reason I'm pro playersexual. It bothered me a bit in games with a silent protag but it was always easily modded out or ignored or I could trudge through playing both genders. Now with voiced PC? That's not happening for me.

I mean you could always hope for a Female PC with a voice that's tolerable

On the contray, I feel Bioware has the bigger issue getting male voice actors then females. 

And you'd be wrong

Get off those drugs boy.

Meer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hale

So where are Meers awards and acclaim for his performances?

[Chrom72]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Not to be a nitpick, but 3.8% of the U.S. population would not be hundreds of millions. It would barely be over ten million.

Not to downplay that number, nor insist that any such numbers alone should somehow determine any sort of business or any other entities actions, just thought I would clear the math up a little.

I think he meant hundreds of millions of total people in the US population, not just the LGBT community.

Edit: Missed the edit.

Modifié par Chrom72, 18 février 2014 - 04:01 .

[daveliam]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

At the risk of getting my head bitten off...

In the US, approximately 3.8% of the population identifies as homosexual, bisexual or transgender (notably, in Washington DC this spikes to 10%). Now, I acknowledge that the US is not the end-all, be-all by any means, and the rate may or may not be significantly different in other countries, but I'd think a population of hundreds of millions of people in a free nation which is far less hostile to the demographic than, say, Russia serves as a decent sample.

In light of this, it seems to me this demographic is already more than adequately represented (if not vastly overrepresented) in modern media. Now before someone pounces on me for "homophobia" let's get one thing straight: I have no problem with this demographic or their presence in media. I have a problem with the idea that they have to be there; that writers should feel compelled to include them in a hyperexaggerated one-to-one ratio or be denounced as bigots.

Bioware can and will do whatever they want, as is their right. That's just my take on the situation. I'd think pandering would be just as offensive as mockery.

I'm not going to bite your head off, but I AM going to point out that the statistic that you are quoting is a self-reported statistic.  Given that any sexuality that isn't 100% straight has a social stigma attached to it, it would be perfectly appropriate to question the validity of that measure since many people who might be gay, bi, or trans wouldn't want to admit it because of that stigma. 

Evidence of this is the fact that just 20 years ago, you would find very few LGBT individuals who were "out", but now that it is becoming more socially acceptable, you find many more.  I suspect that in another 20 years, you will see that the very statistic that you are quoting will be much higher.  Biology wouldn't have changed; just social expectations.

Therefore, since Thedas doesn't have a social stigma attached to homosexuality or bisexuality, it would be fine to speculate that perhaps that statistic has no bearing on Thedas "reality".

Modifié par daveliam, 18 février 2014 - 04:01 .

[Grieving Natashina]

spirosz wrote...

Bioware should do no romances for a future game.

David Gaider talked about that in his blog.  Here's the relevant comment.

http://dgaider.tumbl...ion-of-romances

It’s possible we could answer that question. We’ve made a few games without romances before, and we could do it again. Perhaps, if we made a new IP, we might decide it’s best not to open that particular Pandora’s Box (which, yes, romances have always been) and go with something else…but that “something else” better be something damned good, as there are a lot ]of people who enjoy that part of our games immensely and who might not be willing to buy into a new series which didn’t have it. Some folks might be eager to write those fans off, but I’m not really sure that BioWare feels the same.

Modifié par Starsyn, 18 février 2014 - 04:04 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Chrom72 wrote...

In an ideal world (well, my ideal world anyway) there would be 2 straight, 2 gay, and 2 bi. That way every gender has 4 possible LI options in every playthrough, and 2 of their target gender. I'm not sure if Bioware will have the resources for that. Then again, it would still probably be less combined content than all of the various ME3 romances (major and minor). Would some of you be as mad if the romances were equally limited for everyone?

Honestly I'd be fine with 2/2/2 it'll suffice. Everyone's equally restricted.

I'd personally prefer 0/0/0. Because romances are side content that receive entirely too much attention and concern, both from Bioware and from fans.

I used to make the resources argument, but I don't even feel the need to anymore. Conversations like these aren't going anywhere soon and are tied solely to the presence of romance as a kitsch form of fan pandering, regardless of sexuality or gender. Bioware would be best if they just put the whole concept to bed and not tell anyone. Just have DA:I come out with no LI's and watch the fans go into withdrawals without their digital romantic addictions.

[Steelcan]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I finally got DA:O Ultimate Edition so I finally got the Alistair Voodoo doll, so much fun....


I agree, FemHawke and Shep leave much to be desired

XD

And yeah part of the reason I'm pro playersexual. It bothered me a bit in games with a silent protag but it was always easily modded out or ignored or I could trudge through playing both genders. Now with voiced PC? That's not happening for me.

I mean you could always hope for a Female PC with a voice that's tolerable

On the contray, I feel Bioware has the bigger issue getting male voice actors then females. 

And you'd be wrong

Get off those drugs boy.

Meer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hale

So where are Meers awards and acclaim for his performances?

He doesn't need awards, hale sounds like she came in half drunk in most of her lines and the the others she inflects her voice in weird qways alternating between screams and whispers

[Ryzaki]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Chrom72 wrote...

In an ideal world (well, my ideal world anyway) there would be 2 straight, 2 gay, and 2 bi. That way every gender has 4 possible LI options in every playthrough, and 2 of their target gender. I'm not sure if Bioware will have the resources for that. Then again, it would still probably be less combined content than all of the various ME3 romances (major and minor). Would some of you be as mad if the romances were equally limited for everyone?

Honestly I'd be fine with 2/2/2 it'll suffice. Everyone's equally restricted.

I'd personally prefer 0/0/0. Because romances are side content that receive entirely too much attention and concern, both from Bioware and from fans.

I used to make the resources argument, but I don't even feel the need to anymore. Conversations like these aren't going anywhere soon and are tied solely to the presence of romance as a kitsch form of fan pandering, regardless of sexuality or gender. Bioware would be best if they just put the whole concept to bed and not tell anyone. Just have DA:I come out with no LI's and watch the fans go into withdrawals without their digital romantic addictions.

That's fair enough.

But most games (if not all) have a form of fan pandering in them. The romances at least are easily ignored and not forced on you.

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

He doesn't need awards, hale sounds like she came in half drunk in most of her lines and the the others she inflects her voice in weird qways alternating between screams and whispers

Why did you remind me of that stupid ass angry whispering she does. I hate that **** so much it makes me wanna punch my monitor.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 février 2014 - 04:07 .

[Battlebloodmage]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

If you're too oblivious to the intention behind your words then that's your problem. Regardless, that is what you're implying with such distribution. 4 out of 9? No, in term of people you can romance, it's 3 out of 3 for the straight option and 1 out of 3 for the gay option. There is no restriction for who you want to romance, even the "gay" or "bisexual" one, but for the people who want to romance character of the same gender, they're stuck with just one. Most of ME2's romances like Miranda, Jack, Thane don't have as much scenes (initimate scene or goodbye scenes) or dialogues as the ones I name, except for Ashley, I keep forgetting him. Still, if you save Kaidan, that would be the ideal distribution. You basically want everyone to be "playersexual" for you because you can romance everyone but want to put restriction for others who want to romance someone of the same gender.

At the risk of getting my head bitten off...

In the US, approximately 3.8% of the population identifies as homosexual, bisexual or transgender (notably, in Washington DC this spikes to 10%). Now, I acknowledge that the US is not the end-all, be-all by any means, and the rate may or may not be significantly different in other countries, but I'd think a population of hundreds of millions of people in a free nation which is far less hostile to the demographic than, say, Russia serves as a decent sample.

In light of this, it seems to me this demographic is already more than adequately represented (if not vastly overrepresented) in modern media. Now before someone pounces on me for "homophobia" let's get one thing straight: I have no problem with this demographic or their presence in media. I have a problem with the idea that they have to be there; that writers should feel compelled to include them in a hyperexaggerated one-to-one ratio or be denounced as bigots.

Bioware can and will do whatever they want, as is their right. That's just my take on the situation. I'd think pandering would be just as offensive as mockery.

Yes, Bioware can do whatever they want, so there is no need to pester them with playersexual threads every month. It would be too late at this point anyway, if it happens, it happens. I was replying specifically to that poster though since it seems like he's against playersexual, but describe a situation where it's playersexual. I don't really care if the straight fanbase has an extra one or two options as long as the gays have at least more than one. I don't like being stuck with just one LI like with DAO. In ME3, I wouldn't have romanced Cortez at all even if he's the only gay option. I just want options at the end of the day, and I feel like 2 gay, 2 straight, 2 bi would be the best ways to settle this since everyone would have 2 options to choose from. There are a lot of gay representation on TV, I agree. Still, I wish there would be more diversity in term of race as well, especially with Asian males and Middle Easterners in general.

[Fast Jimmy]

Starsyn wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Bioware should do no romances for a future game.

David Gaider talked about that in his blog.  Here's the relevant comment.

http://dgaider.tumbl...ion-of-romances

It’s possible we could answer that question. We’ve made a few games without romances before, and we could do it again. Perhaps, if we made a new IP, we might decide it’s best not to open that particular Pandora’s Box (which, yes, romances have always been) and go with something else…but that “something else” better be something damned good, as there are a lot ]of people who enjoy that part of our games immensely and who might not be willing to buy into a new series which didn’t have it. Some folks might be eager to write those fans off, but I’m not really sure that BioWare feels the same.

I've seen that response in David's blog before. To me, it is tantamount to "We pander to our fans with romances, despite it being a subject we don't always even like doing. But we do so for the sales, because those crazy Bioware fans won't buy a game unless we assume the role of pixel pimp."

That about sum it up?

[Chrom72]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Chrom72 wrote...

In an ideal world (well, my ideal world anyway) there would be 2 straight, 2 gay, and 2 bi. That way every gender has 4 possible LI options in every playthrough, and 2 of their target gender. I'm not sure if Bioware will have the resources for that. Then again, it would still probably be less combined content than all of the various ME3 romances (major and minor). Would some of you be as mad if the romances were equally limited for everyone?

Honestly I'd be fine with 2/2/2 it'll suffice. Everyone's equally restricted.

I'd personally prefer 0/0/0. Because romances are side content that receive entirely too much attention and concern, both from Bioware and from fans.

I used to make the resources argument, but I don't even feel the need to anymore. Conversations like these aren't going anywhere soon and are tied solely to the presence of romance as a kitsch form of fan pandering, regardless of sexuality or gender. Bioware would be best if they just put the whole concept to bed and not tell anyone. Just have DA:I come out with no LI's and watch the fans go into withdrawals without their digital romantic addictions.

It would depend on what exactly the trade-off was for me. What is the exact opportunity cost of having romances? It's more resources, but how many? Another 4 side quests worth? An equivalent number of extra regular conversations with party members? Slightly better combat?

[Ryzaki]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Bioware should do no romances for a future game.

David Gaider talked about that in his blog.  Here's the relevant comment.

http://dgaider.tumbl...ion-of-romances

It’s possible we could answer that question. We’ve made a few games without romances before, and we could do it again. Perhaps, if we made a new IP, we might decide it’s best not to open that particular Pandora’s Box (which, yes, romances have always been) and go with something else…but that “something else” better be something damned good, as there are a lot ]of people who enjoy that part of our games immensely and who might not be willing to buy into a new series which didn’t have it. Some folks might be eager to write those fans off, but I’m not really sure that BioWare feels the same.

I've seen that response in David's blog before. To me, it is tantamount to "We pander to our fans with romances, despite it being a subject we don't always even like doing. But we do so for the sales, because those crazy Bioware fans won't buy a game unless we assume the role of pixel pimp."

That about sum it up?

You jest but as the quickly growing english otome games industry shows there's money to be made being a pixel pimp.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 février 2014 - 04:10 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Chrom72 wrote...

In an ideal world (well, my ideal world anyway) there would be 2 straight, 2 gay, and 2 bi. That way every gender has 4 possible LI options in every playthrough, and 2 of their target gender. I'm not sure if Bioware will have the resources for that. Then again, it would still probably be less combined content than all of the various ME3 romances (major and minor). Would some of you be as mad if the romances were equally limited for everyone?

Honestly I'd be fine with 2/2/2 it'll suffice. Everyone's equally restricted.

I'd personally prefer 0/0/0. Because romances are side content that receive entirely too much attention and concern, both from Bioware and from fans.

I used to make the resources argument, but I don't even feel the need to anymore. Conversations like these aren't going anywhere soon and are tied solely to the presence of romance as a kitsch form of fan pandering, regardless of sexuality or gender. Bioware would be best if they just put the whole concept to bed and not tell anyone. Just have DA:I come out with no LI's and watch the fans go into withdrawals without their digital romantic addictions.

That's fair enough.

But most games (if not all) have a form of fan pandering in them. The romances at least are easily ignored and not forced on you.

Very true. I just feel they have also become toxic to Bioware's overall name and image. Before, anyone in the industry could equate RPG and story telling with Bioware. Nowadays, it seems they are equated with controversy and romances. Like the game itself is being lost in all of the shuffle. And some would argue that their game quality over the last few years has reflected that.