300 réponses à ce sujet

[AnonymousLamppost]

I think that the term "bisexual" should'nt apply unless the character says that. Such as Anders, When you are playing as a female Hawke he is heterosexual, and when you are a male he is homosexual. The two variations of Hawke exist in separate universes you cannot blend them by saying that Anders is bisexual because he will have sex with male and female Hawke, because only one Hawke exists at a time. Calling him bisexual is looking at both alternate timelines at the same time.

Also, I have only heard men complain about Anders hitting on them, but no women complain about Isabela hitting on them. Why are men so threatened when it comes to their sexuality?

[Br3admax]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

They aren't all bi-sexual.

They are player-sexual.

Bi-sexual, player-sexual, whichever you call it, the companions end up the same in the end.

BioWare insists on not specifying one sexuality. I can't remember what they said, exactly, but the basic gist is "We don't care enough about romances anymore, so we're gonna try to please everyone, rather than sticking to the line about not trying to please everyone."

#DatExactOppositeofWhatTheySaidSWAG

[The Night Mammoth]

It's all well and good saying that every character should be playersexual but it gets to the point where there are so many romance options that the amount of work required to make each one unique and interesting gets too much, and they all end up being cut back and bland. Alright for those who don't like romance in games, not so for those who do. Personally, I'd prefer they have an equal number of options for each player and improve the quality.

[Hellion Rex]

Shinian2 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...
I'm not defending the person you replied to or anything, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of that line of rebuttal.

Romances are real things existing in the real world. Dragons, Darkspawn, blood magic and Qunari are not. As such, the magical/ imaginary things get a pass when talking about realism. Or at least they should, IMO.

Touche. But nonetheless, is it honestly that unrealistic to have 4 bisexual characters in your party?

Like I said, I wasn't defending his point. I stated my opinion on the topic at the top of this page.

But since you asked, yes I think it's unrealistic, but probably for different reasons than the other poster. I just think it's lazy writing at worst, or perhaps it was forced on them by the budget and rushed timeline at best.  Diversity is good.

Anyway, not all the romances were bisexual if you count Sebastian and the attempted flirting with Aveline (which was seriously amusing, but for some reason they left female Hawkes out of it).

Ah, mea culpa. I didn't mean to sound accusatory.

[Br3admax]

AnonymousLamppost wrote...

Also, I have only heard men complain about Anders hitting on them, but no women complain about Isabela hitting on them. Why are men so threatened when it comes to their sexuality?

We don't have enough time for this conversation, unfortunately. Anyway, you're misinturpreting a few things. 

[Silfren]

HiddenInWar wrote...

I wouldn't mind it, but I think a good route is there being specifically straight, bi, and gay oriented characters. It makes for a better range tbh.

But, as has been pointed out time and again, this does not address the problem of people who only want to play a particular gender, and thus potentially being cut off from their preferred LI as a result.  This is no small thing, and it's more critical, I think, than cutting a LI off from a person due to choices you make as a PC.  I'm against race-based restrictions for the same reason.

I ONLY play female characters, full stop.  I will not appreciate being cut off from a given LI because the Devs decided to make her straight only, or him gay-only, and I know I'm not alone in this.

[CybAnt1]

HiddenInWar wrote...

I wouldn't mind it, but I think a good route is there being specifically straight, bi, and gay oriented characters. It makes for a better range tbh.

Gaider has hinted more than once that there may be a companion who is struggling over their sexual orientation. So they may not be 'pan' but might be in the closet. 

Yes, I do think large sections of the BSN "fanbase" may not be ready for that, based on how these threads typically go. But just a heads up ... I think he's hinted more than once that a character like that may be coming in DAI. 

P.S. I'm happily straight IRL, but not narrow. And I doubt I am the only male player who's sampled the female-female romance options of these games. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...
I'm not defending the person you replied to or anything, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of that line of rebuttal.

Romances are real things existing in the real world. Dragons, Darkspawn, blood magic and Qunari are not. As such, the magical/ imaginary things get a pass when talking about realism. Or at least they should, IMO.

Touche. But nonetheless, is it honestly that unrealistic to have 4 bisexual characters in your party?

Add to this the fact that the way the LIs are written, they are *never* de facto bi.  They could easily be construed as gay for one playthrough or straight for another. 

But yeah, I'll go ahead and say it:  All this ridiculous hand-wringing over the idea that it's not realistic.  Mmmhmm.  It's just as stupid as the argument against including more PoCs because doing so wouldn't be realistic. 

It's an excuse, and a bad one.  Nothing more.

I'd have to play again, but I think isabela and zevran, at least, would be counter-examples.

[Sjofn]

Br3ad wrote...

Sjofn wrote...

You heard it here first: gay romance is unrealistic.

Yep that's exactly what they said. Oh wait...it isn't. 

The complaint that ME3 "threw it in our faces" and going on to complain about "realism" pretty much indicates their problem is how gay is "too gay." I thought ME3 handled it the MOST realistically, with gay, straight AND bi options. You know, how people tend to categorize themselves. But apparently it was Bad, because ... reasons? I gave it the glib response it deserved.

[Silfren]

Br3ad wrote...

AnonymousLamppost wrote...

Also, I have only heard men complain about Anders hitting on them, but no women complain about Isabela hitting on them. Why are men so threatened when it comes to their sexuality?

We don't have enough time for this conversation, unfortunately. Anyway, you're misinturpreting a few things. 

No, they're not actually.  Nearly all the complaints men have raised about this issue can be boiled down to "OMFG ANDERS HIT ON MY MALE PC OMG WHY U MAKE THIS A SAUSAGE FEST BIOWARE????"  That infamous tweet Gaider received the other day is EXACTLY what most of men's gripes have amounted to.

[Hellion Rex]

Shinian2 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...
I'm not defending the person you replied to or anything, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of that line of rebuttal.

Romances are real things existing in the real world. Dragons, Darkspawn, blood magic and Qunari are not. As such, the magical/ imaginary things get a pass when talking about realism. Or at least they should, IMO.

Touche. But nonetheless, is it honestly that unrealistic to have 4 bisexual characters in your party?

Add to this the fact that the way the LIs are written, they are *never* de facto bi.  They could easily be construed as gay for one playthrough or straight for another. 

But yeah, I'll go ahead and say it:  All this ridiculous hand-wringing over the idea that it's not realistic.  Mmmhmm.  It's just as stupid as the argument against including more PoCs because doing so wouldn't be realistic. 

It's an excuse, and a bad one.  Nothing more.

I'd have to play again, but I think isabela and zevran, at least, would be counter-examples.

I think she was mostly referring to DA2 for that post.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

eluvianix wrote...


Ah, mea culpa. I didn't mean to sound accusatory.

No worries, I didn't take it that way.

[HiddenInWar]

CybAnt1 wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

I wouldn't mind it, but I think a good route is there being specifically straight, bi, and gay oriented characters. It makes for a better range tbh.

Gaider has hinted more than once that there may be a companion who is struggling over their sexual orientation. So they may not be 'pan' but might be in the closet. 

Yes, I do think large sections of the BSN "fanbase" may not be ready for that, based on how these threads typically go. But just a heads up ... I think he's hinted more than once that a character like that may be coming in DAI. 

Hmmm, interesting. I think that's definitley something that could help with character development or more importantly, anyone playing the game in a similar situation. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

eluvianix wrote...

I think she was mostly referring to DA2 for that post.

Maybe, but Isabela still stands

[Silfren]

Shinian2 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...
I'm not defending the person you replied to or anything, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of that line of rebuttal.

Romances are real things existing in the real world. Dragons, Darkspawn, blood magic and Qunari are not. As such, the magical/ imaginary things get a pass when talking about realism. Or at least they should, IMO.

Touche. But nonetheless, is it honestly that unrealistic to have 4 bisexual characters in your party?

Like I said, I wasn't defending his point. I stated my opinion on the topic at the top of this page.

But since you asked, yes I think it's unrealistic, but probably for different reasons than the other poster. I just think it's lazy writing at worst, or perhaps it was forced on them by the budget and rushed timeline at best.  Diversity is good.

Anyway, not all the romances were bisexual if you count Sebastian and the attempted flirting with Aveline (which was seriously amusing, but for some reason they left female Hawkes out of it).

You've a point on Sebastian, which I never personally understood why Bioware did that after making all the other LIs playersexual.  However, 1) Aveline was NOT a LI so she doesn't count, and 2) yes you CAN flirt with her as a fem!Hawke.

[Navasha]

As long as they only have a couple different LIs to choose from, then yes, they are going to have to make them "player-sexual".

The "realism" argument isn't even valid, because in "reality" there are millions of people to interact with and choose a partner.

[mikeymoonshine]

Well the ME3 way is preferable although I would prefer that the gay characters aren't just both minor characters that aren't even companions.

However I don't mind the playersexual (or whatever) thing so if it's easier for them to do that them I am fine with it.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Silfren wrote...


You've a point on Sebastian, which I never personally understood why Bioware did that after making all the other LIs playersexual.  However, 1) Aveline was NOT a LI so she doesn't count, and 2) yes you CAN flirt with her as a fem!Hawke.

Oh? Huh, I never noticed.

[Br3admax]

Silfren wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

AnonymousLamppost wrote...

Also, I have only heard men complain about Anders hitting on them, but no women complain about Isabela hitting on them. Why are men so threatened when it comes to their sexuality?

We don't have enough time for this conversation, unfortunately. Anyway, you're misinturpreting a few things. 

No, they're not actually.  Nearly all the complaints men have raised about this issue can be boiled down to "OMFG ANDERS HIT ON MY MALE PC OMG WHY U MAKE THIS A SAUSAGE FEST BIOWARE????"  That infamous tweet Gaider received the other day is EXACTLY what most of men's gripes have amounted to.

This statement implies that all men think the same. We don't. That all men can be compared to gamers, especially BioWare gamers. They can't. And that all men, hell, even the majority of the men complained. We didn't. 
Most people put the game down after four hours. Most people don't go on the internet and complain. This is the vocal minority, and it's not fair to compare them to everyone. 

[Silfren]

Shinian2 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...
I'm not defending the person you replied to or anything, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of that line of rebuttal.

Romances are real things existing in the real world. Dragons, Darkspawn, blood magic and Qunari are not. As such, the magical/ imaginary things get a pass when talking about realism. Or at least they should, IMO.

Touche. But nonetheless, is it honestly that unrealistic to have 4 bisexual characters in your party?

Add to this the fact that the way the LIs are written, they are *never* de facto bi.  They could easily be construed as gay for one playthrough or straight for another. 

But yeah, I'll go ahead and say it:  All this ridiculous hand-wringing over the idea that it's not realistic.  Mmmhmm.  It's just as stupid as the argument against including more PoCs because doing so wouldn't be realistic. 

It's an excuse, and a bad one.  Nothing more.

I'd have to play again, but I think isabela and zevran, at least, would be counter-examples.

As was pointed out, I was referring to the DA2 characters.  I should've been clear on that.  Much as I liked Origins, I find DA2's handling of LIs MUCH better.  I don't think players should ever be cut off from the LI they want over something like this.  Especially after removing all such gender-based restrictions in DA2, it would be a woefully backwards move to go back to Origins after giving us DA2 in the first place.

[Br3admax]

Sjofn wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Sjofn wrote...

You heard it here first: gay romance is unrealistic.

Yep that's exactly what they said. Oh wait...it isn't. 

The complaint that ME3 "threw it in our faces" and going on to complain about "realism" pretty much indicates their problem is how gay is "too gay." I thought ME3 handled it the MOST realistically, with gay, straight AND bi options. You know, how people tend to categorize themselves. But apparently it was Bad, because ... reasons? I gave it the glib response it deserved.

Yes, it was a bad response. But they didn't say that gay romance was unrealistic. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

mikeymoonshine wrote...

Well the ME3 way is preferable although I would prefer that the gay characters aren't just both minor characters that aren't even companions.

However I don't mind the playersexual (or whatever) thing so if it's easier for them to do that them I am fine with it.

Honest question, what difference does it make if they aren't companions in ME3?

I can only picture this making a difference if it was like DAO and you could talk to them anywhere.

[Sjofn]

AnonymousLamppost wrote...

I think that the term "bisexual" should'nt apply unless the character says that. Such as Anders, When you are playing as a female Hawke he is heterosexual, and when you are a male he is homosexual. The two variations of Hawke exist in separate universes you cannot blend them by saying that Anders is bisexual because he will have sex with male and female Hawke, because only one Hawke exists at a time. Calling him bisexual is looking at both alternate timelines at the same time.

Anders isn't a great example, I'm pretty sure you are supposed to think of him as bisexual (pansexual, even). If you know him from Awakenings, you know he's expressed interest in ladies before, and he has a banter with Isabella regardless of who he's banging that indicates a more than passing familiarity with the ~ladies~ sexually. I can't remember if he tells LadyHawke he had a relationship with Karl off the top of my head though.

Still, you're not wrong that assuming they're all bisexual at all times is silly. Merrill is a good example, there's basically no indication outside the romance with Hawke she has a preference one way or another.

AnonymousLamppost wrote...

Also, I have only heard men complain about Anders hitting on them, but no women complain about Isabela hitting on them. Why are men so threatened when it comes to their sexuality?

They don't like being treated like women get treated is my guess.  My favorite thing about ZOMG ANDERS HIT ON ME is that I have done a lot of ManHawke playthroughs and I have never actually managed to get the dude to hit on me. I always forget which call/response makes it happen and I can't be bothered to go out of my way to figure it out. 

[mikeymoonshine]

Shinian2 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...
I'm not defending the person you replied to or anything, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of that line of rebuttal.

Romances are real things existing in the real world. Dragons, Darkspawn, blood magic and Qunari are not. As such, the magical/ imaginary things get a pass when talking about realism. Or at least they should, IMO.

Touche. But nonetheless, is it honestly that unrealistic to have 4 bisexual characters in your party?

Like I said, I wasn't defending his point. I stated my opinion on the topic at the top of this page.

But since you asked, yes I think it's unrealistic, but probably for different reasons than the other poster. I just think it's lazy writing at worst, or perhaps it was forced on them by the budget and rushed timeline at best.  Diversity is good.

Anyway, not all the romances were bisexual if you count Sebastian and the attempted flirting with Aveline (which was seriously amusing, but for some reason they left female Hawkes out of it).

I assumed aveline was bi (or whatever) coz of this She just wasn't into hawke. 

[General TSAR]

Hopefully not and hopefully they leave Varric the hell alone.