Trust me, guys, you'll be surprised to see how much Liara has changed in ME2.
Let's hate on Liara...
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#202
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*
Posté 21 janvier 2010 - 10:09
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DPSSOC wrote...
Ah you think intelligence has something to do with military rank...that's kinda sad.
Now Liara's knowledge is the result of intense study over at least half a century, that's not impressive. If she could work and understand prothean technology with little or no foreknowledge, that would be impressive. Anyone, who studies anything, will be a genius in their field if they do it for 50 years. Liara strikes me as being a lot like people I know who go to university. These people have extensive knowledge in their particular area of study but none in anything else. Now Liara's particular field of knowledge is useful in-game, but in everyday life it's pretty useless.
Ash on the other hand demonstrates no particular genius in any particular field but neither does she come across as being particularly stupid. Furthermore her NCO status is most likely the result of the black listing of her family rather than any particular failing on her part considering, according to Shepard, her "technical scores are amazing".
Now I don't like Liara, her voice is mildly annoying and her Space Mage status angers me. However I'd never say Ash was better than Liara or vice versa.
Footsoldiers tend to be on the low end as far as intelligence goes, at the lowest level. I'll give her the benefit of being a Gunnery Sergeant and having responsibility over a group of 100+ and having a moderate/high tactical capability.
Oh, and have you ever wondered why the officer commision system in the US requires a university degree? It's because people who are capable of high-intellect, critical thinking, analytical thinking, etc are usually quick learners and are rather adaptable.
I think you'll be surprised at how Liara has adapted to her new line of work.
Modifié par Crawling_Chaos, 21 janvier 2010 - 10:15 .
#203
Guest_PureMethodActor_*
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 12:20
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Here is MY whole shpiel on why I don't like Liara, and why I find her overrated:
She has that whole "damsel-in-distress" thing at the beginning of it, which is typical of all fiction. Now, that fades, but at the same time, one can see when talking to her that she's wishy-washy, doesn't commit to beliefs, and isn't interested in fighting for what she wants. As a love interest, she's a weak female, perfect for strong Shepards (knight-in-shining-armor types) or people who play Shepard as an **** who takes advantage of Liara's schoolgirl-like fascination of him/her, and the first scenario annoys me now (the second scenario I've played out in my 3rd Shepard). This may just be because I'm attracted to stronger, more confident, more aggressive women in real life, but I find Ashley to be much more attractive because she is firm in her beliefs and desires. Ashley was a perfect match for my ultra-Paragon Shepard (he was kind, compassionate, noble, and serene, while she added the necessary fire and strength in the relationship).
Honestly, in Mass Effect 1, Liara's only valid appeal was that she is an Asari, a race of feminine mono-gendered alien unlike any other in fiction before, and that marketing ploy worked, considering how popular the Mass Effect series is, and how popular she is, as well as many of the Asari in the series.
In Mass Effect 2, she presents the ILLUSION of newfound strength, confidence, and resolve, but its an illusion at most. While she talks of hoping to hunt down and kill the Shadow Broker for kidnapping her friend and for the whole Shepard's body/Collector mess, there isn't really a sense of duty or principle behind it. Basically she's obsessed, her personal vendetta being the guide to the rest of her life. She's so obsessed she can't put her feelings aside to give Shepard a proper hello if romanced in ME1. Oh, and heres another thing, if your Shepard was anti-Cerberus:
SHE BETRAYED YOU!!!! She decided that rather than let Shepard's body rest with honor or hand his body to another faction, she gives your body to the very people you tried to destroy, the very group that got "Sole Survivor Shepard"'s squad killed on Akuze. I personally found this insulting and wished that I could really rip into Liara for doing that, more so than the "So am I" option presented. True there wouldn't be a sequel if this didn't happen, and Shepard is necessary to defeat the Reapers, but that still doesn't change the fact that Liara helped ruin Shepard's life through the relationships he cultivated with those within the Alliance and Council (especially if one of the LI was Kaidan or Ashley).
My 2nd Shepard, the full-Paragon Shepard, really displays all of Liara's flaws as a person. This particular Shepard I played out as such that he was absolutely sickened to have to work with Cerberus, and felt betrayed by Liara for what she did. And in this playthrough, while I romanced Ashley in ME1, I romanced Tali in ME2. Both Ashley and Tali are much better than Liara for different reasons; Ashley because of her tough, aggressive, uncompromising personality, and Tali because she's a strong person when she needs to be yet extremely kind, and she doesn't compromise her values and is loyal to the causes she joins till death.
Liara, in my opinion, doesn't share that strength at all, which is why I can never really think highly of her in the Mass Effect series. Hell, to me, the whole Asari allure is overrated. Asari are much like females of any other race: as Alenko says about Vyrnus "Aliens are just like us... they're saints and jerks". Asari can either be angels or ****es or anything in-between, absolutely nothing special about that. That said, some other Asari, such as Samara and Aria T'Loak, I find MUCH MORE attractive because they're just as uncompromising in their particular morals and values as examples of non-asari I gave, regardless of what those particular morals are.
The only way I could respect Liara as a character in ME3 is if she fully betrayed Shepard and became a villian, and maybe with that, I might be more interested in her.
She has that whole "damsel-in-distress" thing at the beginning of it, which is typical of all fiction. Now, that fades, but at the same time, one can see when talking to her that she's wishy-washy, doesn't commit to beliefs, and isn't interested in fighting for what she wants. As a love interest, she's a weak female, perfect for strong Shepards (knight-in-shining-armor types) or people who play Shepard as an **** who takes advantage of Liara's schoolgirl-like fascination of him/her, and the first scenario annoys me now (the second scenario I've played out in my 3rd Shepard). This may just be because I'm attracted to stronger, more confident, more aggressive women in real life, but I find Ashley to be much more attractive because she is firm in her beliefs and desires. Ashley was a perfect match for my ultra-Paragon Shepard (he was kind, compassionate, noble, and serene, while she added the necessary fire and strength in the relationship).
Honestly, in Mass Effect 1, Liara's only valid appeal was that she is an Asari, a race of feminine mono-gendered alien unlike any other in fiction before, and that marketing ploy worked, considering how popular the Mass Effect series is, and how popular she is, as well as many of the Asari in the series.
In Mass Effect 2, she presents the ILLUSION of newfound strength, confidence, and resolve, but its an illusion at most. While she talks of hoping to hunt down and kill the Shadow Broker for kidnapping her friend and for the whole Shepard's body/Collector mess, there isn't really a sense of duty or principle behind it. Basically she's obsessed, her personal vendetta being the guide to the rest of her life. She's so obsessed she can't put her feelings aside to give Shepard a proper hello if romanced in ME1. Oh, and heres another thing, if your Shepard was anti-Cerberus:
SHE BETRAYED YOU!!!! She decided that rather than let Shepard's body rest with honor or hand his body to another faction, she gives your body to the very people you tried to destroy, the very group that got "Sole Survivor Shepard"'s squad killed on Akuze. I personally found this insulting and wished that I could really rip into Liara for doing that, more so than the "So am I" option presented. True there wouldn't be a sequel if this didn't happen, and Shepard is necessary to defeat the Reapers, but that still doesn't change the fact that Liara helped ruin Shepard's life through the relationships he cultivated with those within the Alliance and Council (especially if one of the LI was Kaidan or Ashley).
My 2nd Shepard, the full-Paragon Shepard, really displays all of Liara's flaws as a person. This particular Shepard I played out as such that he was absolutely sickened to have to work with Cerberus, and felt betrayed by Liara for what she did. And in this playthrough, while I romanced Ashley in ME1, I romanced Tali in ME2. Both Ashley and Tali are much better than Liara for different reasons; Ashley because of her tough, aggressive, uncompromising personality, and Tali because she's a strong person when she needs to be yet extremely kind, and she doesn't compromise her values and is loyal to the causes she joins till death.
Liara, in my opinion, doesn't share that strength at all, which is why I can never really think highly of her in the Mass Effect series. Hell, to me, the whole Asari allure is overrated. Asari are much like females of any other race: as Alenko says about Vyrnus "Aliens are just like us... they're saints and jerks". Asari can either be angels or ****es or anything in-between, absolutely nothing special about that. That said, some other Asari, such as Samara and Aria T'Loak, I find MUCH MORE attractive because they're just as uncompromising in their particular morals and values as examples of non-asari I gave, regardless of what those particular morals are.
The only way I could respect Liara as a character in ME3 is if she fully betrayed Shepard and became a villian, and maybe with that, I might be more interested in her.
#204
Guest_Shavon_*
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 12:25
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Liara is awesome! definitely in my top five list.
Seriously, tho. why does Bioware continue allowing hate threads like this?
Seriously, tho. why does Bioware continue allowing hate threads like this?
#205
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 12:40
Yana Montana
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How could anyone hate a beautiful blue lady who risked her life to bring Shepard back into life? O.o
She is the only one who was ready to go against all principles so Shepard can breathe again. This devotion cannot be forget. I love Liara.
She is the only one who was ready to go against all principles so Shepard can breathe again. This devotion cannot be forget. I love Liara.
#206
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 12:49
Dinkamus_Littlelog
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Yes, lets all hate on one of the few decent characters left in the ME universe. After ME2s pathetic display of character development in that moronic suicide squad (who I hope all get cameod in ME3), things cant get much worse.
#207
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 12:57
DPSSOC
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Shavon wrote...
Seriously, tho. why does Bioware continue allowing hate threads like this?
Because it's a testament to their work. If their characters can spark a strong emotional reaction, and it doesn't matter which, then it shows they've done a good job.
That and there's no real way to stop them. There's only so many times you can lock a thread only for another, identical thread to pop up before it just isn't worth the effort anymore.
#208
Guest_Shavon_*
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:01
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Yes, I don't mean we should squash people's freedom of speech or anything, I just think most of the answers given on this thread are based on a misunderstanding of Liara's character.
But you're right, it's probably better to not ask devs to go on a locking spree. i'll just have to spam hate threads with love instead!
But you're right, it's probably better to not ask devs to go on a locking spree. i'll just have to spam hate threads with love instead!
#209
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:02
SurfaceBeneath
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This thread is Glorious! Yes... feel the hate for Liara flow through you!
#210
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:10
falco117
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DPSSOC wrote...
Shavon wrote...
Seriously, tho. why does Bioware continue allowing hate threads like this?
Because it's a testament to their work. If their characters can spark a strong emotional reaction, and it doesn't matter which, then it shows they've done a good job.
That and there's no real way to stop them. There's only so many times you can lock a thread only for another, identical thread to pop up before it just isn't worth the effort anymore.
This is wisdom at its finest, I congratulate you DPSSOC:)
Modifié par falco117, 08 mars 2010 - 01:11 .
#211
Guest_jynthor_*
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:11
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Why should I hate her?
She's the only character I can have lesbian sex with.
She's the only character I can have lesbian sex with.
#213
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:13
Pannamaslo
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Huurrrray! Necroposting. XD
She was boring, socially challenged and annoying, whining damsel in distress. But that's not what made me dislike her - the high possibility of unintended romance was the main reason. I told her to GTFO more than once after Virmiring Kaidan and it was still not enough. But to hate her? Nah, too strong word for a pixelized character... More like indifference/ slight dislike.
She was boring, socially challenged and annoying, whining damsel in distress. But that's not what made me dislike her - the high possibility of unintended romance was the main reason. I told her to GTFO more than once after Virmiring Kaidan and it was still not enough. But to hate her? Nah, too strong word for a pixelized character... More like indifference/ slight dislike.
Modifié par Pannamaslo, 08 mars 2010 - 01:14 .
#214
Guest_Shavon_*
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:21
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Pannamaslo, have you met Tali? Apart from the whining 
If damsel in distress is your main complaint, you get to be the white knight twice for Tali. Liara clearly can handle herself.
If damsel in distress is your main complaint, you get to be the white knight twice for Tali. Liara clearly can handle herself.
#215
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:21
falco117
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Pannamaslo wrote...
But to hate her? Nah, too strong word for a pixelized character... More like indifference/ slight dislike.
NOW THIS IS WISDOM:O
#216
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:28
Pannamaslo
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Shavon wrote...
Pannamaslo, have you met Tali? Apart from the whining
Tali doesn't whine so much in conversations. You may be a knight for her, but at least she won't whine. Tali isn't my favourite either. From female characters I would say I find Jack, Samara and Ash very interesting. LIara was bland comparing to justicar IMO. But that's very subjective. I know people find Liara's akwardness cute, but I just don't swing that way.
#219
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:32
Vena_86
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I don't really like either of them. Liara is too much of a child and Ash is a redneck by design.
#220
Guest_Shavon_*
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:33
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Pann, I said apart from the whining 
And besides, Liara doesn't whine,at least, to my recollection, and I've romanced her a few times now. I love that Asari
This is a very subjective issue, though, you're right. I lean towards Tali, Liara and Miranda being the most interesting, as they are all very strong in their own ways. Add Ash to that list! As for romance, however, Liara is the most appealing to me.
Not so much the awkwardness (which I do find cute) so much as her sweetness, intellingence and independence.
And besides, Liara doesn't whine,at least, to my recollection, and I've romanced her a few times now. I love that Asari
This is a very subjective issue, though, you're right. I lean towards Tali, Liara and Miranda being the most interesting, as they are all very strong in their own ways. Add Ash to that list! As for romance, however, Liara is the most appealing to me.
Not so much the awkwardness (which I do find cute) so much as her sweetness, intellingence and independence.
#221
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:38
Nozybidaj
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This thread is clearly great feedback for BW and serves a vital purpose here on the forums outside of complete trolling. I am glad the devs have allowed it to be open for over a month. I think I'll go start a Tali or Miranda hate thread and see how long the devs let that one float around.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/1621306
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/1621306
Modifié par Nozybidaj, 08 mars 2010 - 02:14 .
#222
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:40
Barquiel
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falco117 wrote...
too bad u cant romance samara
There is Morinth;)
...and Liara whines? Look at how she handles her mother's death in ME1: no "whining"
#223
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:47
Pannamaslo
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Barquiel wrote...
falco117 wrote...
too bad u cant romance samara
There is Morinth;)
...and Liara whines? Look at how she handles her mother's death in ME1: no "whining"
Shavon wrote...
Pann, I said apart from the whining
And besides, Liara doesn't whine,at least, to my recollection, and I've romanced her a few times now. I love that Asari
This
is a very subjective issue, though, you're right. I lean towards Tali,
Liara and Miranda being the most interesting, as they are all very
strong in their own ways. Add Ash to that list! As for romance,
however, Liara is the most appealing to me.
Not so much the awkwardness (which I do find cute) so much as her sweetness, intellingence and independence.
Ooo. I have a headache. Oooo I have to rest. Boooo. Every freaking time! I am sorry, I am socially challanged and didn't talk to people....Bleh...
As I said. I don't find her attractive to romance, I didn't find nothing appealing in her character profile. Maybe she is a good romance option, but apart from that she is just boring. It's like she was created only to bang her and this all you can like about her. I found others female characters much more interesting to interact with. Just an opinion here, so don't hit me.
#224
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 01:53
BigBody26
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I do not hate Liara, but I do feel she is the most boring character of the two games so far. In ME1 all she ever wants to do is talk about you...trying to have a normal conversation with her is impossible. It gets kind of creepy after a bit.
Shep: I enjoy talking to you Liara. It doesn't matter what we talk about.
Liara: In that case let's talk about you.
Ugh! Seriously? Again? Haven't we covered the subject of me? At least with Ashley you see her character grow. She had never worked closely with aliens before and her grandfather fought in the First Contact Wat. So yes, she is a bit prejudice. By the end of the game though she is much more accepting of aliens if you handle your decisions correctly.
For me, Ash is just a much deeper and much more interesting character than Liara is. Again, I don't hate Liara. Just find her to be rather boring.
Shep: I enjoy talking to you Liara. It doesn't matter what we talk about.
Liara: In that case let's talk about you.
Ugh! Seriously? Again? Haven't we covered the subject of me? At least with Ashley you see her character grow. She had never worked closely with aliens before and her grandfather fought in the First Contact Wat. So yes, she is a bit prejudice. By the end of the game though she is much more accepting of aliens if you handle your decisions correctly.
For me, Ash is just a much deeper and much more interesting character than Liara is. Again, I don't hate Liara. Just find her to be rather boring.
#225
Posté 08 mars 2010 - 02:00
falco117
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Barquiel wrote...
falco117 wrote...
too bad u cant romance samara
There is Morinth;)
...and Liara whines? Look at how she handles her mother's death in ME1: no "whining"
MORINTH?! i dont want ot die while doing the most pleasurable thing known to man
