25 réponses à ce sujet

[Arcanis]

 Good day!
After overthinking a bit I came up with a theory about red Lyrium:
It turns your mind into that of a Spirit.

What do we know about Lyrium itself?
1. It is used to gain acces to the Fade and it is used for magic
    abilities (the standart use for Mages and Templers)

2. You get dependent on it - as told by Alistair (DA:O), hinted by Samson (DAII) and told in other circumstances.

What do we know about the special red version?

It made Bartrand mad and Meredith paranoid and that Bartrand wanted it back.
Also that Varric said he "needed" the splinter.

What do we know about Spirits?
..A couple of things, but most importantly that they aspire a virtue/vice and try to fulfill
this specific aspect.


So, let's try to find out what we (or at least myself) can make out of this:

If you drink Lyrium you will become dependent on it -but we don't know how long that takes.
Bartrand seems to suffer from a psycological version of withdrawl since he sold is idol.
Varrics mind -weakend because he wants an explanation (or help) for his brothers state of mind-
succumbs extremly easily (though the effect stops once you take it away from him).

Now, let us look closer at the other effect of the Lyrium idol:
I will start with Meredith.
According to what is told about her during DAII she tends to be paranoid about mages.
When we meet her, she is getting more and more paranoid - thanks to the idol.
So the idol amplified her paranoia because - and here starts my spirit-theory - that was the strongest
"aspect" of her personality. So the Lyrium would have amplified her until her mindset would be similiar
to a Spirit, she would become a Spirit of paranoia - trapped into a mortal body, more about that later.

Bartrand. I would say he was a rather greedy man, as much is implied through Varric. I think
he alread thought about sacrificing his brother for profits, but the idol weakened his moralic doubts.
We don't see much of his development -aside from the withdrawl symptoms- but I'm willing to
argue that his greed was the only thing that allowed him to sell the idol, but I can't proof much with him here, sorry.


The last aspect that I noticed was Meredith transformation into stone.
The dwarven Thaig we visit earlier is full of red Lyrium and in it we are fighting sentinent stone..thingies.
The demon there mentioned that he was drawn by their hunger, which means that he has nothing
to do with their creation. So, after Meredith turned to stone I began to wonder if the Profane are in fact
what remains of the dwarves that once lived in the Thaig. Dwarves that lost their minds to eternal hunger?
So, could it be that the Profane are nothing more than possesed rocks (even if these stones are the remnants
of their mortal bodies)? 

Well, please discuss ^^
Feel free to dismiss the theory if I have overlooked something, of course =P

[CybAnt1]

Red lyrium, as I noted before, seems to pose a bit of a puzzle.

Everyone worries about mages losing control and becoming abominations.

Well, red lyrium appears to grant - at least so far as we've seen - humans like Meredith, semi-magical abilities (animating statues, flying through the air). Thereby breaking the monopoly we've seen in the game world, so far, that "non mages don't use magic" (except templars do, but that's through blue lyrium use.)

However, it also appears to have a 'corrupting' effect on everybody - causing weird addictive behavior, hallucinations, general craziness - including, interestingly, dwarves like Bartrand and Varric. Who should be immune.

Which hints to me that the 'susceptibility' problem of mages, may become a more general problem for everyone who comes into contact with red lyrium.

It seems the red templars are using it, to give themselves magical abilities like mages and beyond that of ordinary templars. But I really don't see that ending very well, seeing what red lyrium so far has done to the three people who've come into contact with it.

[TheLastAwakening]

I agree with some aspects however, I would term the effects differently. That is, I think instead of saying that red Lyrium turns your mind to that of a spirit, I would say it amplifies a specific characteristic akin to the purpose that spirits attempt to fulfill.
 

Modifié par TheLastAwakening, 19 février 2014 - 02:20 .

[Nuloen]

CybAnt1 wrote...
Everyone worries about mages losing control and becoming abominations.

Well, red lyrium appears to grant - at least so far as we've seen - humans like Meredith, semi-magical abilities (animating statues, flying through the air). Thereby breaking the monopoly we've seen in the game world, so far, that "non mages don't use magic" (except templars do, but that's through blue lyrium use.)

it is quite paradox that templars use magic to defeat mages(so they are confirming every day that strength and religion is not enough to win over magic)
the same thing as with phylactery(using forbidden magic, to hunt down someone who is also using forbidden magic)

CybAnt1 wrote..
However, it also appears to have a 'corrupting' effect on everybody - causing weird addictive behavior, hallucinations, general craziness - including, interestingly, dwarves like Bartrand and Varric. Who should be immune.

i think those psychical problems were caused by statue(or whatever possessed it{remember that room full of lyrium where demon was able to survive}, probably demon of madness), becouse templars that touch lyrium theyre whole life still seem to be normal

[LinksOcarina]

I look at it as sort of a drug, much like the regular lyrium.

The difference is the potency being much stronger, but also more dangerous and unpredictable. Heck, I bet red lyrium was one of the causes for the tears in the veil, or at least indirectly linked to it somehow.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nuloen wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...
Everyone worries about mages losing control and becoming abominations.

Well, red lyrium appears to grant - at least so far as we've seen - humans like Meredith, semi-magical abilities (animating statues, flying through the air). Thereby breaking the monopoly we've seen in the game world, so far, that "non mages don't use magic" (except templars do, but that's through blue lyrium use.)

it is quite paradox that templars use magic to defeat mages(so they are confirming every day that strength and religion is not enough to win over magic)
the same thing as with phylactery(using forbidden magic, to hunt down someone who is also using forbidden magic)

I doubt that that templars would have big problems with defating mages they already proved many times they can crush mages like nothing i can bet it is rather about addiction and lack of lyrium...

If it isn't about some templars getting power hungry and seeing red lyrium as road to power it is thedas after all if most mages are corrupted i don't see why some templars wouldn't be after geting power...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 19 février 2014 - 03:35 .

[Bond]

I bet will have big role and further explanation in DAI. With the Red Templars and stuff.

[Nuloen]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Nuloen wrote...
it is quite paradox that templars use magic to defeat mages(so they are confirming every day that strength and religion is not enough to win over magic)
the same thing as with phylactery(using forbidden magic, to hunt down someone who is also using forbidden magic)

I doubt that that templars would have big problems with defating mages they already proved many times they can crush mages like nothing i can bet it is rather about addiction and lack of lyrium...

If it isn't about some templars getting power hungry and seeing red lyrium as road to power it is thedas after all if most mages are corrupted i don't see why some templars wouldn't be after geting power...

you said it again "I doubt that that templars would have big problems with defating mages they already proved many times" templars use lyrium
all lyrium is magical not just red lyrium(and in pax demo it is hightly visible that it is some kind of magic)

if you would say group of fanatics slauthered mages many times without using lyrium, then i would accept it

so I it works like this
if mages use lyrium to cast spells and templars use lyrium to negate spells(magic=forcing energy to do something), which is basically dispel spell but in better form
and when templar take lyrium into his body, lyrium will become part of his body and thats why he feels exhausted(it drains stamina) when he is using his abilities(so templar will take power from lyrium and use it for anti magic spell and then automatically replace that lost energy with his stamina, or lyrium will take it)

Modifié par Nuloen, 19 février 2014 - 08:10 .

[Nuloen]

but very important question that is missing here is "why is red lyrium red and why its more powerful?"

[Uccio]

I think it is a cheap way out of showing bad templars. Now its the red lyrium, not the templars themselves which is the bad guy.

[ReadingRambo220]

I'm not sure what red lyrium is, but I'd  like to add a few observations. In the primeval thaig, it seems to have "grown" into the architecture, like roots from a tree. It also shows this curious property during the stylized cutscenes during Varrics narration.

In addition, Justice said that lyrium sings to him when given a lyrium ring in awakening. The miner caste says similar things when searching for deposits. Red lyrium seems to sing much louder; a silly analogy would be that it's heavy death metal while normal lyrium is a lullaby. Is this singing somehow connected to the old god calling?  And why should dwarves hear this singing that only spirits hear?  Are they some kind of stone spirits cut off from the fade?

Modifié par GreyPouponWarden, 19 février 2014 - 08:56 .

[Nuloen]

GreyPouponWarden wrote...

I'm not sure what red lyrium is, but is like to add a few observations. In the primeval thaig, it seems to have "grown" into the architecture, like roots from a tree. It also shows this curious property during the stylized cutscenes during Varrics narration.

In addition, Justice said that lyrium sings to him when given a lyrium ring in awakening. The miner caste says similar things when searching for deposits. Red lyrium seems to sing much louder; a silly analogy would be that it's heavy death metal while normal lyrium is a lullaby. Is this singing somehow connected to the old god calling?  And why should dwarves hear this singing that only spirits hear?  Are they some kind of stone spirits cut off from the fade?

:o:omaybe its The Stone(old dwarven god) itself or other dwarven god probably his wife
elves also have legend where earth and sun are parents of theyre god

Modifié par Nuloen, 19 février 2014 - 09:01 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nuloen wrote...

you said it again "I doubt that that templars would have big problems with defating mages they already proved many times" templars use lyrium
all lyrium is magical not just red lyrium(and in pax demo it is hightly visible that it is some kind of magic)

if you would say group of fanatics slauthered mages many times without using lyrium, then i would accept it

so I it works like this
if mages use lyrium to cast spells and templars use lyrium to negate spells(magic=forcing energy to do something), which is basically dispel spell but in better form
and when templar take lyrium into his body, lyrium will become part of his body and thats why he feels exhausted(it drains stamina) when he is using his abilities(so templar will take power from lyrium and use it for anti magic spell and then automatically replace that lost energy with his stamina, or lyrium will take it)

Well i would call power that gives you normal lyrium as anti-magic but still yeap you are right here because it can be seen as magic when red lyrium gives more magical abilities judging by that what they show...
Well about templars seems pretty well handle mages in kirkwall with pure raw mages were slained like pesants.

Well can we rly put here gameplay mechanic as exaple how that works in reality i mean not that hp
reflects our characters real condition.

[ReadingRambo220]

What's the extent to the powers granted to Meredith? What if she had used some of that red lyrium power on an Eluvian. Would it have woken up like Merrill wanted?

[Zelanthair]

I'm so angry with myself. When I saw the red templars in the PAX video, I didn't connect the dots to the red lyrium. >_<

[Nuloen]

To fully understand red lyrium we first have to know how lyrium works

[Vulpe]

I don't think red lyrium has any connection to The Fade, reason why it can't syphon energy from it, like the blue one. Do to this, it developed a parasitic nature and uses the body of its victim to syphon energy from the Fade. Why do I say this?

 

We know that blood is more powerful than lyrium. I believe that every living being in Thedas is connected to The Fade (more or less) and their "life spark" as I call it ( it would be something like a soul) always syphons energy from The Fade to sustain itself. Remember that it's believed that once the real world and The Fade were connected, so I deducted from this that every living thing still needs to be connected to The Fade and absorb it's energy to survive.

As I said, this spark would syphon energy from The Fade to sustain itself and would store extra energy in the blood for dire situation (reason why blood is so potent in magic).

 

 

Now let's get back to red lyrium. Being altered ( by itself or someone ) and thus being disconnected to from The Fade, red lyrium extracts the energy from it's vitims blood while giving it acces to the one that is already stored inside. While it absorbs it's energy, it alters its users mind to use more of it's energy, thing that leads to giving it more access to it's victim energy, absorbing more power that it's user/victim can consume. After that it selfs replicates and the process repeats. 

I wont write more to justify why I believe this.I've already created a monster post. If you need more justification to why I think what I think here's an older theory of mine.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think red lyrium has any connection to The Fade, reason why it can syphon energy from it, like the blue one. Do to this, it developed a parasitic nature and uses the body of its victim to syphon energy from the Fade. Why do I say this?

 

We know that blood is more powerful than lyrium. I believe that every living being in Thedas is connected to The Fade (more or less) and their "life spark" as I call it ( it would be something like a soul) always syphons energy from The Fade to sustain itself. Remember that it's believed that once the real world and The Fade were connected, so I deducted from this that every living thing still needs to be connected to The Fade and absorb it's energy to survive.

As I said, this spark would syphon energy from The Fade to sustain itself and would store extra energy in the blood for dire situation (reason why blood is so potent in magic).

 

 

Now let's get back to red lyrium. Being altered ( by itself or someone ) and thus being disconnected to from The Fade, red lyrium extracts the energy from it's vitims blood while giving it acces to the one that is already stored inside. While it absorbs it's energy, it alters its users mind to use more of it's energy, thing that leads to giving it more access to it's victim energy, absorbing more power that it's user/victim can consume. After that it selfs replicates and the process repeats. 

I wont write more to justify why I believe this.I've already created a monster post. If you need more justification to why I think what I think here's an older theory of mine.

In the video today, it seems there is something that looks a lot like Red Lyrium in the Fade:

 

[Vulpe]

@Hanako Ikezawa

Hmm, interensting. The image isn't the best one, but there is indeed something red there. I'll have to keep my eyes on this.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Hanako Ikezawa

Hmm, interensting. The image isn't the best one, but there is indeed something red there. I'll have to keep my eyes on this.

Yeah, it was the only one I could find.

[Zelanthair]

 

Red Lyrium:

 

A more potent form of lyrium, red in color, was recently discovered in the Deep Roads. Its strength is such that possessors may be imbued with magic-like power, regardless of whether or not they are a mage. Contact comes at a cost, however, as the greater power presents greater dangers. Red lyrium's potency is such that it corrupts all minds eventually, even normally resistant dwarves. Red lyrium was first found during an expedition into a long-uninhabited thaig in 9:31 Dragon. The infamous Champion of Kirkwall, known as Hawke, led the expedition into the Deep Roads near Kirkwall, and discovered giant veins of the mineral pushing through cavern walls from some unknown source. An idol carved from the red lyrium was brought to the surface. The discovery played an important role in the templar-mage crisis in Kirkwall six years later. Templar Knight-Commander Meredith Stannard, already hostile towards mage activity in the city-state, used red lyrium to gain the strength to take on a mage rebellion following a rogue mage's destruction of the local chantry. It appeared as though the power of the lyrium corrupted Stannard's mind. She was killed in an ensuing battle with Hawke.

 

I cracked open my copy of "The World of Thedas Volume 1" just to copy it word for word for you to examine.

[WardenWade]

@Hanako Ikezawa

Hmm, interensting. The image isn't the best one, but there is indeed something red there. I'll have to keep my eyes on this.

 

Yeah, it was the only one I could find.

 

I was wondering a bit about this myself in the new "Discover the Dragon Age" video, as with the below image.

 

 

As with the image you linked to it is very hard to tell, but aside from the brazier here there appears to be...possibly?...some red object(s) on the table..?  The banners are Tevinter and it just made me wonder if both red templars and the Venatori/an extremist mage faction might both be using red lyrium?  If so, it might serve to balance them more in the story--as the devs have mentioned DAI setting a more balanced tone to the mage-templar conflict in general, I believe--and keep both extreme factions on more equal moral footing, and more "grey."  A supernatural arms race, perhaps.

[mousestalker]

Regular lyrium has a pleasant mint flavour. Red lyrium tastes of a blend of cinnamon and cloves, almost like pumpkin spice.

[EmissaryofLies]

Makes the templars easier to spot and better to drop.

[ReadingRambo220]

Regular lyrium has a pleasant mint flavour. Red lyrium tastes of a blend of cinnamon and cloves, almost like pumpkin spice.

"Spice!! Give me more red lyrium spice!!" - Meredith Harkonnen-Stannard