117 réponses à ce sujet

[Vit246]

-Skorpious- wrote...

It'll probably get hand-waved away, but it would at least be nice if said torture happened off-screen. Something like -

Guard: "Inquisitor, we captured this Red Templar and he refuses to disclose the location of their stronghold. Your command?"

*game gives player several options, torture being one of them*

Next time you visit that particular keep, the guard will return with the results of your choice. Those who are seeking a more authentic inquisition get their torture, and BioWare can avoid the fallout by having it occur behind the scenes.

BioWare doesn't need to shove torture it in our faces to have it included in the game.

This would be acceptable.
I just hope the game and the setting doesn't pretend that torture doesn't even exist. This is a dark fantasy for crying out loud.

[Fredward]

Vit246 wrote...
 This is a dark fantasy for crying out loud.

It is?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Vit246 wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

It'll probably get hand-waved away, but it would at least be nice if said torture happened off-screen. Something like -

Guard: "Inquisitor, we captured this Red Templar and he refuses to disclose the location of their stronghold. Your command?"

*game gives player several options, torture being one of them*

Next time you visit that particular keep, the guard will return with the results of your choice. Those who are seeking a more authentic inquisition get their torture, and BioWare can avoid the fallout by having it occur behind the scenes.

BioWare doesn't need to shove torture it in our faces to have it included in the game.

This would be acceptable.
I just hope the game and the setting doesn't pretend that torture doesn't even exist. This is a dark fantasy for crying out loud.

*Looks at Howe's torture room in Origins*

I think they acknowledge such draconian methods as existing.

[Vit246]

Oh yeah I forgot. Silly me.

Modifié par Vit246, 20 février 2014 - 06:31 .

[ElitePinecone]

Banxey2 wrote...

I think the problem is that while there is a justified and intelligent argument as to why it would add depth to the game given the setting, there is also an argument to be made for not including it because of how it would be utilised by users.

The "slap Morrigan" mod is a pretty good indication of where a feature like this would lead.

holy hell people are weird

[Maria Caliban]

Taleroth wrote...

I'm pretty sure you can't be a serial killer, either. Most murder knife prompts tend to at least pretend there's a reason for it. It's not like you were luring random townspeople into dark alleys.

Try as I might, I've never avoided being a serial killer in a BioWare game.

[BioWareM0d13]

There is no need for there to be a depiction of torture in DA:I. I get the impression that the Inquisitor is kind of big deal. Torture and execution was generally not carried out by the lords of the land, it was carried out by their jailers or headsmen.

If the Inquisitor gets to condemn certain characters to death or torment, it should just be a verbal order, with the condemned being led away by your guards, never to be seen again.

[karushna5]

I think the devs actually really hesitated making the name Inquisition because of what people might say or think. Because in this game you lead an inquisition in the literal sense, to look into, to question, to INQUIRE on the way of things.

that is why you are the Inquisitor, and why you lead the Inquisition because it sounds better than The person who looks into stuff and why they are that way and their followers.

[ElitePinecone]

karushna5 wrote...

I think the devs actually really hesitated making the name Inquisition because of what people might say or think. Because in this game you lead an inquisition in the literal sense, to look into, to question, to INQUIRE on the way of things.

that is why you are the Inquisitor, and why you lead the Inquisition because it sounds better than The person who looks into stuff and why they are that way and their followers.

Yeah. I don't think they wanted to strongly push the association with the (real-life, historical) Inquisition - they're different things. Taken literally, an inquisition is just something that inquires about things - it doesn't need to have religious overtones, and it certainly doesn't need to carry connotations of violence.

But if that name choice means we're going to see a procession of crazies on the forum talking about wanting to torture people in elaborate ways because that's what Inquisitions do, then maybe it was a mistake to pick this name.

[Commander Kurt]

The issues they reflect in the game, I'm sure there will be many, will be chosen by Bioware. I understand that some people like some issues more than others (and I'll refrain from guessing at why torture, rape, killing children and such are so popular), but it's the same as it always is;

Asking is reasonable. Demanding (or implying that it SHOULD be included) is silly and childish.

CybAnt1 wrote... 

Of course, well, I don't know how to put this diplomatically, so maybe I'll go for direct, maybe this new Bioware studio isn't interested in dealing with "issues" so much anymore.

I mean, look, take away the trappings and the perennial, thread-spanning mage vs. templar debate is really the both old and modern debate of order vs. liberty. Heck, they've even named one mage faction "the libertarians".

You haven't been paying attention then. Apparently having a gay man hit on you in a game is a major issue for many people. Females "ruling the world" (you know, being treated equally, sort of) is another.

My personal favourite in DA2 was dealing with a murderer that was mentally ill. Very interesting.

[Ryzaki]

While I do understand why people would want the option for torture. It's not something the devs seem interested in for DAI.

Why not just leave it be?

Torture isn't really intergral to anyone's enjoyment of the game. (And indeed to have it even remotely believable would entail a bunch of resources thrown at it.)

I mean SWTOR has torture in it (Mostly of the I shock you til you give me what I require variety) so it's not like they haven't done it and will never do it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2014 - 06:57 .

[NRieh]

Inquisition without torture is like shoemaker without shoes...
They shouldn't`t name the game like that. It`s like you name your army SS
and then tell everybody that they are going to pick flowers..

To be honest, I still do not understand what they were thinking. It's impossible to hear the title and not to think of real historical background. Even someone who never studied history is going to have all sorts of associations based on films, books and other sources. Which are typically tortures, brutality, injustice etc.

Imo, they should've used some sort of fictional title for the order, same as they did with Grey Wardens, Seekers, Templars etc. Well, Templars could potentially also remind of Knights Templar, but that title is rather descriptive, and their role is different enough.

I don't think that tortures are needed, at least not as some sort of direct action.

I mean SWTOR has torture in it

SWTOR is 12+. If we call that 'torture' we might as well call its 'love scenes' porn. Still, that was one of reasons I could never play imp side. There is only as much maniacs, sadists and psychos a person can endure per hour of story content...)) Disbelieve said 'no'.

[Vit246]

Its not because the organization is called "Inquisition". At least for me.
Its just that the organization that we are the leader of would seem to be the type to have torture as one of many methods for making an inquiry into things.

Modifié par Vit246, 20 février 2014 - 09:08 .

[x-aizen-x]

actually your wrong... I have tons of secrets

[Ryzaki]

Nrieh wrote...

SWTOR is 12+. If we call that 'torture' we might as well call its 'love scenes' porn. Still, that was one of reasons I could never play imp side. There is only as much maniacs, sadists and psychos a person can endure per hour of story content...)) Disbelieve said 'no'.

So electrocuting someone til they blubber their secrets while screaming from the pain isn't torture now?  It's gore free torture mind but it's still torture. (and no it's not all cartoony lvl HAHA look how evil I am in the IA story which involves the PC being tortured).

And love scenes aren't porn because porn implies a lvl of explicit sexual content. If it's not explicit it just becomes a romance/sex scene. So...bad analogy. You don't have to show blood and guts for something to count as torture.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2014 - 09:27 .

[karushna5]

Vit246 wrote...

Its not because the organization is called "Inquisition". At least for me.
Its just that the organization that we are the leader of would seem to be the type to have torture as one of many methods for making an inquiry into things.

I think that is the name again, most of the Inquiring we have been led to believe so far is more the general, how do we solve the tears in the fade, and while we are inquiring about that over coincedence has lots of other chaos at the same time.

Unless we just assume blood mages did it on purpose instead of symptoms it makes more sense to look into history, local problems because the fade reacts to the area around it than torture people about something 90% of them had never understood wase ven possible before.

[Vit246]

karushna5 wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

Its not because the organization is called "Inquisition". At least for me.
Its just that the organization that we are the leader of would seem to be the type to have torture as one of many methods for making an inquiry into things.

I think that is the name again, most of the Inquiring we have been led to believe so far is more the general, how do we solve the tears in the fade, and while we are inquiring about that over coincedence has lots of other chaos at the same time.

Unless we just assume blood mages did it on purpose instead of symptoms it makes more sense to look into history, local problems because the fade reacts to the area around it than torture people about something 90% of them had never understood wase ven possible before.

And if we capture an enemy prisoner who knows things but refuses to talk? What then?

[ElitePinecone]

Vit246 wrote...

Its not because the organization is called "Inquisition". At least for me.
Its just that the organization that we are the leader of would seem to be the type to have torture as one of many methods for making an inquiry into things.

Considering we know literally nothing about the organisation that we're the leader of, isn't this more a case of people expecting wish-fulfillment out of the fictional Inquisition?

We've never seen the Chantry use torture, Cassandra never used torture on Varric, and the only character who ever did use it in the games, Arl Howe, was about as obvious a villain as you can get. On the whole, torture as a tool for investigation seems FAR less common in Thedas than in medieval Europe - and it was always portrayed in a negative light.

If the tone of the Inquisition's methods comes from the player character, and the player character isn't allowed to believe torture is a solution, then why should anyone expect torture to be possible in DA:I? There are limits to roleplaying, and I don't blame Bioware if they don't want to cater to fans who probably need to see a professional psychologist.

[Arcanis]

I think torture is far less accepted in Thedas than in ancient/medieval Europe as far as
I can tell. But that makes actually sense, considering that forensic investigations are a
rather new development. The medieval judges based their sentence on "vocal" evidence
(sorry, can't find a better word for it x_x), the one that wants to see you sentenced will do so
through witnesses as will you own defence. Physical evidence was not really in use since
they couldn't really analyse it. Torture was sometime used to get the information out of
someone unwilling -but it was actually surprisingly rare, torture as a punishment was used more.

The spanish inquisition -which was actually controlled by the monarchy- tortured when they
where sure that the person was guilty and wanted to force it to confess.As twisted as it may
be, but the confession and the following burning was actually an attempt to save their soul
-as far as I know.

Anyways, my point is: Thedas has mages, they can be used to find evidence, so torture as a method of inquiring (as uncommon as it was in medieval times) is not necessary.

So.. no, torture is not needed in the game and as far as I could tell, it is actually as
forbidden in Thedas as it is (and was) in our world. Just because it is used despite this,
does not mean we need to be allowed to do it -especially considering that suffering
weakens the Veil...

[Banxey]

Sentinel358 wrote...

Banxey2 wrote...

I think the problem is that while there is a justified and intelligent argument as to why it would add depth to the game given the setting, there is also an argument to be made for not including it because of how it would be utilised by users.

The "slap Morrigan" mod is a pretty good indication of where a feature like this would lead.

I've mentioned this in another thread but, fix that by making it a specific moment during the game where it becomes a moral dilemma, your companions and troops react accordingly and there you go. Its no different than any other dilemma in the series and it fits the Dark medieval fantasy setting especially one thats being headlined as an "Inquisition" but apparently any notion that suggests this is branded as someone who enjoys "torture porn". 
Regardless its confirmed not to be in the game so we'll leave it at that

I agree with you that in that context it seems like something that could be done tastefully (for lack of a better word). Though knowing how brutal medieval torture was I doubt you could do it without a fade to black. Yet even in that situation, unless the game is (and stays) unmoddable, Bioware could still be opening a can of worms.

To be blunt, I don't think Bioware's largest audience is overwhelmingly capable of handling the content with the seriousness it demands. It shouldn't be fun, people shouldn't look forward to it. And if I were a dev at Bioware I would shudder at the thought of the "lol torture" vids which would inevitably show up on youtube.

[RobRam10]

Here hoping that we can atleast hang people.

[Maria Caliban]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Torture was, under very specific circumstances, permitted ONLY under the condition that the victim does not suffer any permanent bodily harm.

Except those tortured did suffer permanent bodily harm.

The hanging rack broke peoples' arms and shoulders and tore their joints, whether it healed properly was a matter of luck. Flesh and skin was burned and mutilated. Perforated eardrums often led to partial deafness.

Torture victims didn't benefit from medical treatment and the Inquisition's take on what 'permanent bodily harm' looks like was far different from our own.