332 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

Qistina wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote..
just because you don't like that writing style doesn't mean its "bad"

so can we learn to disagree?

it is not about what i like or don't like, most of my critics is not based on what i like and don't like...i am stating the art of writing itself...the narrative, the symbolic, the movie, the core story...

If want to talk about what i don't like, there are a lot of things i don't like in DA:O

No it is based on what you do not like, because others see it in a different way. You are voicing an opinion not a fact as others are voicing their opinions. There are many different ways to approach and tell a story. The approach you like is just one of those. The approach I like is equally as valid. That is why we will have to agree to disagree.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 20 février 2014 - 06:21 .

[CybAnt1]

Duncan is the narrator of DA:O and he's dead, so?

Actually, the only thing I think Duncan "narrates" is your Origin story, because in all cases, that story is the one of how you met him and got "drafted" for the Gray Wardens.

He isn't narrating anything past his own death early on in the story; post-Origin/Duncan, as I said, the game uses an omniscient narrator.

http://narrative.geo...scient_narrator

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I think being attacked by Zevran witrhout prior knowledge would add more shock value. The fact that the player is already forewarned that Zervan would be attacking in the future allows the player to be ready for it.

I agree it would be much more startling to have Zevran attack you and then while interrogating him he reveals he was hired by Howe and Loghain. It would set an extra tone of caution as now the Warden, and you as the player, are being observed by the enemy.

[Silfren]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Duncan is the narrator of DA:O and he's dead, so?

Actually, the only thing I think Duncan "narrates" is your Origin story, because in all cases, that story is the one of how you met him and got "drafted" for the Gray Wardens.

He isn't narrating anything past his own death early on in the story; post-Origin/Duncan, as I said, the game uses an omniscient narrator.

http://narrative.geo...scient_narrator

I'm pretty sure she's referring to the fact that Duncan has a voiceover at the very end as well.  Though I would agree that I wouldn't really call this a true case of narration. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Qistina wrote...

using City elf as example, i give you guys the difference between DA:O and DA2 story...and how good DA:O is

 And here is where I stopped reading seriously. Not because I disagree about DAO being good, but when the opening sentence has such apparent bias, I knew the rest of the post would follow suit.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Qistina wrote...

DA2 is a bad story from the begining

In your opinion. One which I personally disagree with.

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

From the beginning, comparing City Elf origin and Hawke intro, it is like heaven and earth...DA2 is tooooo cheap to begin with. The premise of Hawke compared with City Elf female is too cheap

can you say what defintion of cheap your using cause I get the feeling it's not the same one I use...

[TheKomandorShepard]

I didn't like story in da 2 it was just bad i mean first act was collecting fortune to get fortune... story was just in 90 % drama where our hero always fails no what decysions you will take you always fail ,you hero is already defined to add more you can choose only between 3 ready sets of personalities...

Dragon age 2 was was jurney from failure to failure after ending game you don't have any sense accomplishment and ultimately our protagonist brings apocalypse onto world don't mention that story forces us to take side in conflict that simple we can don't care to add fire to that both of that side are nuts there is no absolutly reason to side with mages unless you are naive and soft when templars have many right points they are lead by nuts woman so i m forced to choose between fanatics that want save world with insane woman as leader or corrupted and unsympathetic walking bombs that are threat for entire world and are endless mine of disasters and there is no reason why i shouldn't be able say "screw that im outta here" in the ending choice...

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...
can you say what defintion of cheap your using cause I get the feeling it's not the same one I use...

The definition of cheap here is that kind of intro is taken from old files eaten by cockroaches in the drawer as the last resort

so it's "cheap" because you don't like it... that not what that word means.

you can't mean generic because as much as we all love it da: o was very generic. it was very well done but it's like they went down a check list for what make a good old school western rpg.

[KaiserShep]

CybAnt1 wrote...

In reality, it's Varric who's telling the story, so theoretically it simply never shows you anything that Varric could never have seen.

The story does have quite a few moments that Varric could not have possibly seen, like whatever goes on inside Gamlen's house or the Hawke estate, and whatever private moments Hawke may have with whichever love interest he/she is involved with. I doubt Cassandra really wants to hear about that anyway...or does she?

[KaiserShep]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

I didn't like story in da 2 it was just bad i mean first act was collecting fortune to get fortune... story was just in 90 % drama where our hero always fails no what decysions you will take you always fail ,you hero is already defined to add more you can choose only between 3 ready sets of personalities...

Dragon age 2 was was jurney from failure to failure after ending game you don't have any sense accomplishment and ultimately our protagonist brings apocalypse onto world don't mention that story forces us to take side in conflict that simple we can don't care to add fire to that both of that side are nuts there is no absolutly reason to side with mages unless you are naive and soft when templars have many right points they are lead by nuts woman so i m forced to choose between fanatics that want save world with insane woman as leader or corrupted and unsympathetic walking bombs that are threat for entire world and are endless mine of disasters and there is no reason why i shouldn't be able say "screw that im outta here" in the ending choice...

What the heck are you on about? Hawke brought about the apocalypse? Did he slit his wrists and howl in the moonlight? Did he sacrifice a goat to the great demon, doing demon-y things? 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 20 février 2014 - 08:00 .

[Iron Fist]

KaiserShep wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

In reality, it's Varric who's telling the story, so theoretically it simply never shows you anything that Varric could never have seen.

The story does have quite a few moments that Varric could not have possibly seen, like whatever goes on inside Gamlen's house or the Hawke estate, and whatever private moments Hawke may have with whichever love interest he/she is involved with. I doubt Cassandra really wants to hear about that anyway...or does she?

The frame narrative was a terrible way of telling the story.

I still believe that "Hawke" was created and propogated by the Dwarven Merchants Guild with the Amells (discredited nobles) and the DA2 companions (all criminals, including Aveline) being associates of the Guild.

I'm sure there was an individual who portrayed "Hawke" in the Kirkwallian public, but this individual was not the character that we played in DA2.

Modifié par MevenSelas, 20 février 2014 - 08:02 .

[Dio Demon]

KaiserShep wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

In reality, it's Varric who's telling the story, so theoretically it simply never shows you anything that Varric could never have seen.

The story does have quite a few moments that Varric could not have possibly seen, like whatever goes on inside Gamlen's house or the Hawke estate, and whatever private moments Hawke may have with whichever love interest he/she is involved with. I doubt Cassandra really wants to hear about that anyway...or does she?

Varric in detail tells Cassandra EVERY moment of Hawke's life. Hawke sits down and eats food, Hawke washes themselves, Hawke goes to the toilet.

Remember Varric is always watching 

[TheKomandorShepard]

KaiserShep wrote...

What the heck are you on about? Hawke brought about the apocalypse? Did he slit his wrists and howl in the moonlight? Did he sacrifice a goat to the great demon, doing demon-y things? 

LoL at least half of that mess was because hawke was there even cassandra pointed that if there was no hawke this would not happen hawke led to world war with walking bombs i would tell that divine more than him but still hawke was catalyst events in kirkwall what lead to events in asunder another thing that hawke let corypheus super powerful darkspawn escape and even freed him joker would be proud

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 20 février 2014 - 08:07 .

[n7stormrunner]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

What the heck are you on about? Hawke brought about the apocalypse? Did he slit his wrists and howl in the moonlight? Did he sacrifice a goat to the great demon, doing demon-y things? 

LoL at least half of that mess was because hawke was there even cassandra pointed that if there was no hawke this would not happen hawke led to world war with walking bombs i would tell that divine more than him but still hawke was catalyst events in kirkwall what lead to events in asunder another thing that hawke let corypheus super powerful darkspawn escape and even free him joker would be proud

... half aren't you giving hawke to much credit? everything except maybe corypheus wpuld have happened without hawke. that was the flaw of the story, hawke did almost nothing to affect it...  as painful as it may be for you, you may have to go do another play though.

[KaiserShep]

MevenSelas wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

In reality, it's Varric who's telling the story, so theoretically it simply never shows you anything that Varric could never have seen.

The story does have quite a few moments that Varric could not have possibly seen, like whatever goes on inside Gamlen's house or the Hawke estate, and whatever private moments Hawke may have with whichever love interest he/she is involved with. I doubt Cassandra really wants to hear about that anyway...or does she?

The frame narrative was a terrible way of telling the story.

I still believe that "Hawke" was created and propogated by the Dwarven Merchants Guild with the Amells (discredited nobles) and the DA2 companions (all criminals, including Aveline) being associates of the Guild.

I'm sure there was an individual who portrayed "Hawke" in the Kirkwallian public, but this individual was not the character that we played in DA2.

I actually liked the frame narrative, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, but anyway, it's doubtful that BioWare is going to pull a deception twist a la Verbal Kint or something.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

KaiserShep wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

In reality, it's Varric who's telling the story, so theoretically it simply never shows you anything that Varric could never have seen.

The story does have quite a few moments that Varric could not have possibly seen, like whatever goes on inside Gamlen's house or the Hawke estate, and whatever private moments Hawke may have with whichever love interest he/she is involved with. I doubt Cassandra really wants to hear about that anyway...or does she?

She did say tell her everything. I like though how in some unused files she does comment on that by saying she didn't need to know certain things but Varric brings up what I did.

[TheKomandorShepard]

n7stormrunner wrote...


... half aren't you giving hawke to much credit? everything except maybe corypheus wpuld have happened without hawke. that was the flaw of the story, hawke did almost nothing to affect it...  as painful as it may be for you, you may have to go do another play though.

Nah lets see who help brought red lyrium on the surface?
Hawke
Who was helping/protecting abomnation for all this years that later blow up chantry
Hawke
Who let corypheus escape
Who gave talis list of qunari spys and let her go helping qunari in the future conquer thedas
Hawke
Oh who lead to tensions between orlais and kirkwall
Hawke

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

Human Noble origin is considered as the weakest and boring origin of all origins, but it is actually far good than DA2 Hawke intro

A narrator that is "Duncan" tell us about Cousland family, the movie show guards marching with heraldic shield, a boy sitting on a roof...then a noble looking guy talking with other noble looking guy about preparation of war...

Then we got introduced with our character we just created...she walk in, greet her father and the other noble man talking about matching us with his son. Then we are introduced to Duncan "the narrator" and a Grey Warden...get orders from the father. Then we can learn a bit about the world we are living in by asking those dudes...we learn about King Maric, King cailan, grey Warden, Darkspawn, conscription ect ect...

Then we are free to explore a bit the castle we living in...going to the small church learn about God...going to armory seeing the guards playing cards...going to library learning the history of our family....meet with a handsome knight guy, chat with him...then pick up our buddy the dog...then meet with mother who doing the typical noble woman thing with other noble woman...then meet with our big bro with his wife and son...our big bro is about to join the war campaign...in short we are exposed to the world we living in through their dialogues

Then we wake up...this is the turning point of our life in which will change forever. We wake up either with our secret lover or not...seeing our servant get shot from the back, Howe army trying to beat the door to our mom's room, just imagine what they want to do to our mom...we fight them. Then we check on our sister in law...dead with her son....

We must find our daddy, we know there is no hope to survive because of the surprise attack..so we fight our way, save whatever we can...we saw our old librarian lying on the ground, the church sister is no where to be found, assumed dead or raped, then we meet with our knight guy who try to hold the door with only two guards...

Cut the story short, we saw our daddy bloodied, cannot stand up...we know he got back stabbed somehow...the narrator come in and offer his help...with a price...we have to abandon our mom and dad in that condition to seek our big bro and bring him the bad news...we lost everything, our home, status and family....

Even it is the weakest into of all intros in which the common "castle under siege, a noble guy/girl saved using secret passage" trope, it is still far better than DA2 into. We learn about our world, our family, the background, the environment, the sentiment....we are introduced to the game in few minutes of the intro. That is why it is called "INTRODUCTION" in writing lesson...

I've played it... why are you giving a recap? then repeating your opinion? I may have bad memory but it's not that bad.

[Dio Demon]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

What the heck are you on about? Hawke brought about the apocalypse? Did he slit his wrists and howl in the moonlight? Did he sacrifice a goat to the great demon, doing demon-y things? 

LoL at least half of that mess was because hawke was there even cassandra pointed that if there was no hawke this would not happen hawke led to world war with walking bombs i would tell that divine more than him but still hawke was catalyst events in kirkwall what lead to events in asunder another thing that hawke let corypheus super powerful darkspawn escape and even freed him joker would be proud

Let's understand this someone would've eventually got Hawke blood and unleashed Corypheus in his FULL POWER. All Hawke did was speed up the inevitable and weaken Corypheus.

Deep Roads trip would've still went down, Bartrend could've still gotten the idol without Hawke just with a lot more deaths.

Qunari invasion would've still went down and if it wasn't for Hawke. Qunari would have Kirkwall under their control.

Mage Templar conflict, Hawke was not a major contributing factor to the fires, Orsino, Meredith and Anders were.

But I've read your posts Komandor you're not going to listen to me. I have a feeling after DA:I comes out you're going to be complaining about how the Inquisitor was incompetent.

[Iron Fist]

KaiserShep wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

In reality, it's Varric who's telling the story, so theoretically it simply never shows you anything that Varric could never have seen.

The story does have quite a few moments that Varric could not have possibly seen, like whatever goes on inside Gamlen's house or the Hawke estate, and whatever private moments Hawke may have with whichever love interest he/she is involved with. I doubt Cassandra really wants to hear about that anyway...or does she?

The frame narrative was a terrible way of telling the story.

I still believe that "Hawke" was created and propogated by the Dwarven Merchants Guild with the Amells (discredited nobles) and the DA2 companions (all criminals, including Aveline) being associates of the Guild.

I'm sure there was an individual who portrayed "Hawke" in the Kirkwallian public, but this individual was not the character that we played in DA2.

I actually liked the frame narrative, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, but anyway, it's doubtful that BioWare is going to pull a deception twist a la Verbal Kint or something.

I don't know...

I just found Varric to be a really bland character, so having him be the narrator ruined the (otherwise interesting) frame narrative for me.

[Dio Demon]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...


... half aren't you giving hawke to much credit? everything except maybe corypheus wpuld have happened without hawke. that was the flaw of the story, hawke did almost nothing to affect it...  as painful as it may be for you, you may have to go do another play though.

Nah lets see who help brought red lyrium on the surface?
Hawke
Who was helping/protecting abomnation for all this years that later blow up chantry
Hawke
Who let corypheus escape
Who gave talis list of qunari spys and let her go helping qunari in the future conquer thedas
Hawke
Oh who lead to tensions between orlais and kirkwall
Hawke

A) Varric, Bartrand, bunch of other workers.

Varric, Aveline, Sebastian, Fenris, Merill, Isabela.

C) Inevitable

D) Can't remember the scene so I'll pass the torch.

E) The ham from the Anderfells. It tasted like despair.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Crazy Eyed One wrote...


Let's understand this someone would've eventually got Hawke blood and unleashed Corypheus in his FULL POWER. All Hawke did was speed up the inevitable and weaken Corypheus.

Deep Roads trip would've still went down, Bartrend could've still gotten the idol without Hawke just with a lot more deaths.

Qunari invasion would've still went down and if it wasn't for Hawke. Qunari would have Kirkwall under their control.

Mage Templar conflict, Hawke was not a major contributing factor to the fires, Orsino, Meredith and Anders were.

But I've read your posts Komandor you're not going to listen to me. I have a feeling after DA:I comes out you're going to be complaining about how the Inquisitor was incompetent.

Not rly when seal would eventually vanish he would stay in prison for a while then hawke let him escape in damn grey warden body thanks hawke.

Not rly bartrand didn't had money and even if somehow he would get that and it would take long time he would still end with problems as they without hawke couldn't get any further avoiding that they didn't had map that they got thanks to hawke help...

I agree on half of that but qunari wouldn't take over kirkwall templars would crush them it is stated that templars have enough to do that...

And who protected Anders for years and brought idol?

If inquisitor will be walking failure like hawke and he will cause more problems and solve nothing i will complain...

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...


...
half aren't you giving hawke to much credit? everything except
maybe corypheus wpuld have happened without hawke. that was the flaw of
the story, hawke did almost nothing to affect it...  as painful as it
may be for you, you may have to go do another play though.

Nah lets see who help brought red lyrium on the surface?
Hawke
Who was helping/protecting abomnation for all this years that later blow up chantry
Hawke
Who let corypheus escape
Who gave talis list of qunari spys and let her go helping qunari in the future conquer thedas
Hawke
Oh who lead to tensions between orlais and kirkwall
Hawke

A) Varric, Bartrand, bunch of other workers.

Varric, Aveline, Sebastian, Fenris, Merill, Isabela.

C) Inevitable

D) Can't remember the scene so I'll pass the torch.

E) The ham from the Anderfells. It tasted like despair.

1.^ above
2.Not rly meredith stated that anders wasn't captured yet because his connection to champion of kirkwall if you bring him to meredith in first quest in act 3...
3.Not rly
4.ok..
5.???

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 20 février 2014 - 08:24 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Nah lets see who help brought red lyrium on the surface?
Hawke
Who was helping/protecting abomnation for all this years that later blow up chantry
Hawke
Who let corypheus escape
Who gave talis list of qunari spys and let her go helping qunari in the future conquer thedas
Hawke
Oh who lead to tensions between orlais and kirkwall
Hawke

1) Happens regardless of Hawke.
2) Hawke never protects Anders from Templar investigations unless Anders is romanced.
3) Prison was weakening anyway.
4) Tallis takes them regardless.
5) Nobody, since nothing becomes of it. 

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 20 février 2014 - 08:23 .

[n7stormrunner]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...


... half aren't you giving hawke to much credit? everything except maybe corypheus wpuld have happened without hawke. that was the flaw of the story, hawke did almost nothing to affect it...  as painful as it may be for you, you may have to go do another play though.

Nah lets see who help brought red lyrium on the surface?
Hawke
Who was helping/protecting abomnation for all this years that later blow up chantry
Hawke
Who let corypheus escape
Who gave talis list of qunari spys and let her go helping qunari in the future conquer thedas
Hawke
Oh who lead to tensions between orlais and kirkwall
Hawke

red lyrium? did you miss the part were bartrand takes the idol and leaves you to die?

did you miss the part were anders had helpers before hawke.. like the one who told you were he was, and was still there by the end?

corpheus... well assuming hawke's family dies if hawke die that one is true

did you miss the part where he was basically a hired hand? she could have done the same with some else.

tension between orlais and kirkwall? well I suppose it orlais and somewhere else if without hawke.. maybe.