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writing style similar to Da2?


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#76
TheKomandorShepard

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Nah lets see who help brought red lyrium on the surface?
Hawke
Who was helping/protecting abomnation for all this years that later blow up chantry
Hawke
Who let corypheus escape
Who gave talis list of qunari spys and let her go helping qunari in the future conquer thedas
Hawke
Oh who lead to tensions between orlais and kirkwall
Hawke

1) Happens regardless of Hawke.
2) Hawke never protects Anders from Templar investigations unless Anders is romanced.
3) Prison was weakening anyway.
4) Tallis takes them regardless.
5) Nobody, since nothing becomes of it. 

1.Lol no see above
2.Yes he does bring him to meredith and supprot templars on the end of first quest for meredith...
3.Yep but it would last for a while hawke let him escape with new body...
4.And who helped her genius...
5.Not rly because hawke killed duke...

#77
Grieving Natashina

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On a serious note, I would substitute E with either Duke Prosper, Tallis or Salit.

#78
Hanako Ikezawa

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Nah lets see who help brought red lyrium on the surface?
Hawke
Who was helping/protecting abomnation for all this years that later blow up chantry
Hawke
Who let corypheus escape
Who gave talis list of qunari spys and let her go helping qunari in the future conquer thedas
Hawke
Oh who lead to tensions between orlais and kirkwall
Hawke

1) Happens regardless of Hawke.
2) Hawke never protects Anders from Templar investigations unless Anders is romanced.
3) Prison was weakening anyway.
4) Tallis takes them regardless.
5) Nobody, since nothing becomes of it. 

1.Lol no see above
2.Yes he does bring him to meredith and supprot templars on the end of first quest for meredith...
3.Yep but it would last for a while hawke let him escape with new body...
4.And who helped her genius...
5.Not rly because hawke killed duke...

1.Bartrand would find another partner.
2. Anders also has Mage Underground to hide him.
3. Prison was nearly about to break, as in within DA2's time frame.
4. She does the entire mission alone if you don't do the DLC.
5. A duke who was about to start genocide, so Orlais keeps incident under wraps.

#79
TheKomandorShepard

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n7stormrunner wrote...

red lyrium? did you miss the part were bartrand takes the idol and leaves you to die?

did you miss the part were anders had helpers before hawke.. like the one who told you were he was, and was still there by the end?

corpheus... well assuming hawke's family dies if hawke die that one is true

did you miss the part where he was basically a hired hand? she could have done the same with some else.

tension between orlais and kirkwall? well I suppose it orlais and somewhere else if without hawke.. maybe. 



Omg if i was talking to...
1.As i said answer is above...
2.Not rly meredith said that he have protection only thanks to champion of kirkwall... and if you talk about varric and other without hawke they wouldn never meet...
3.Well he would or not be stoped hawke freed him and gave him new body...
4.Yeah they would kill entire orlesian army like hawke and ups that hawke had invitation and was only guy that talis would trust and only ****** he would trust her...
5.It happened because hawke killed duke...

#80
KaiserShep

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MevenSelas wrote...
I don't know...

I just found Varric to be a really bland character, so having him be the narrator ruined the (otherwise interesting) frame narrative for me.


The game actually makes a pretty clear distinction between the regular story and Varric's exaggeration. Whether or not this is all some kind of tall tale conjured up by a liar is entirely up to BioWare, but I don't see them going out of their way to cancel out the entire game, much as it might please its detractors and deception theorists alike.

As for the narrator. It could have been worse; it could have been Oghren.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 20 février 2014 - 08:36 .


#81
TheKomandorShepard

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...




1.Bartrand would find another partner.
2. Anders also has Mage Underground to hide him.
3. Prison was nearly about to break, as in within DA2's time frame.
4. She does the entire mission alone if you don't do the DLC.
5. A duke who was about to start genocide, so Orlais keeps incident under wraps.


My gosh...

1.Hawke delivered maps , money and was only able to go through darkspawn when bartrand expedition wasn't able go further... even if he somehow got money and he couldn't , thats why he desperatly required hawke he still wouldn't have map or forces to get trough legions of darkspawn...
2.Not rly mage underground was destroyed even anders said that...
3.Not rly devs never stated that so you are making that up...
5.What guy wanted weapon from qunari i guess he would kill agents but for thedas that would be salvation...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 20 février 2014 - 08:38 .


#82
Dio Demon

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

red lyrium? did you miss the part were bartrand takes the idol and leaves you to die?

did you miss the part were anders had helpers before hawke.. like the one who told you were he was, and was still there by the end?

corpheus... well assuming hawke's family dies if hawke die that one is true

did you miss the part where he was basically a hired hand? she could have done the same with some else.

tension between orlais and kirkwall? well I suppose it orlais and somewhere else if without hawke.. maybe. 



Omg if i was talking to...
1.As i said answer is above...
2.Not rly meredith said that he have protection only thanks to champion of kirkwall... and if you talk about varric and other without hawke they wouldn never meet...
3.Well he would or not be stoped hawke freed him and gave him new body...
4.Yeah they would kill entire orlesian army like hawke and ups that hawke had invitation and was only guy that talis would trust and only ****** he would trust her...
5.It happened because hawke killed duke...

1) See LDS Dark Revan's answer

2) Yeah he had protection. Doesn't mean they could catch him. There's a short story by Jennifer Hepler (I think) that shows how Ander's joined with Justice and he wiped out a group of Templars and Wardens.

3) Hawke weakened Corypheus.

#83
TheKomandorShepard

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Crazy Eyed One wrote...


1) See LDS Dark Revan's answer

2) Yeah he had protection. Doesn't mean they could catch him. There's a short story by Jennifer Hepler (I think) that shows how Ander's joined with Justice and he wiped out a group of Templars and Wardens.

3) Hawke weakened Corypheus.




1)answered that above 100 times before as well

2)as i said mage underground was destroyed and anders was next he even knew that in second act then hawke became champion and meredith stated that only why anders wasn't captured is because of his friendship with champion (even if you are not friend hawke still protect him).Even if templars didn't menage capture him he would escape from kirkwall.
3) not rly...

#84
Dio Demon

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KaiserShep wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...
I don't know...

I just found Varric to be a really bland character, so having him be the narrator ruined the (otherwise interesting) frame narrative for me.


The game actually makes a pretty clear distinction between the regular story and Varric's exaggeration. Whether or not this is all some kind of tall tale is really up to BioWare, but I don't see them going out of their way to cancel out the entire game in such a ridiculous fashion.

As for the narrator. It could have been worse; it could have been Oghren.

Oghren: Then Seeker,  her and Merill went into their room licking, legs entwined all over their bed *ahem* 'cuse me Seeker.

Cassandra: :blink: I thought Hawke was a male?

#85
KaiserShep

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Hawke also crossed over into another universe and gave Morgoth political advice.

#86
TheKomandorShepard

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KaiserShep wrote...

Hawke also crossed over into another universe and gave Morgoth political advice.


Not rly because after dragon age 2 hawke was victiom of time anomaly and was send thousands of years before he was born he dug up old gods and created first tevinter empire and he is responsible for all this crap to this point :lol:

#87
Iron Fist

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KaiserShep wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...
I don't know...

I just found Varric to be a really bland character, so having him be the narrator ruined the (otherwise interesting) frame narrative for me.


The game actually makes a pretty clear distinction between the regular story and Varric's exaggeration. Whether or not this is all some kind of tall tale conjured up by a liar is entirely up to BioWare, but I don't see them going out of their way to cancel out the entire game, much as it might please its detractors and deception theorists alike.

I think "canceling out" the events of DA2 would actually be a great twist, not just a ploy to appease some people.

It might make Varric an interesting character.

#88
Hanako Ikezawa

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...




1.Bartrand would find another partner.
2. Anders also has Mage Underground to hide him.
3. Prison was nearly about to break, as in within DA2's time frame.
4. She does the entire mission alone if you don't do the DLC.
5. A duke who was about to start genocide, so Orlais keeps incident under wraps.


My gosh...

1.Hawke delivered maps , money and was only able to go through darkspawn when bartrand expedition wasn't able go further... even if he somehow got money and he couldn't thats why he desperatly required hawke he still wouldn't map or forces to get trough legions of darkspawn...
2.Not rly mage underground was destroyed even anders said that...
3.Not rly devs never stated that so you are making that up...
5.What guy wanted weapon from qunari i guess he would kill agents but for thedas that would be salvation...


My gogh what? Somebody not agreeing with you?

1. Money would come from the dwarf who funds Hawke if they don't have enough by the end of Act 1. Anders isn't the only person with a map, plus there's alays looking for the entrances. And skilled fighters can get through Darkspawn just as easy as Hawke and Co did. Bartrand was obsessed with this venture. He was not going to give up until he succeeded. 

2. The group being destroyed does not mean fractions do not still exist. If that's the case, then Templars no longer exist because they are no longer a single group. Plus Hawke can report Anders, showing they do not care what happens to Anders, yet nothing becomes of it.

3. Toushe. However by same token, they never said it wasn't.

5(because 4 was skipped for some reason). When "weapon" equaled "names of all Qun followers in Orlais and their families, yes he would cause genocide. Which would result in Qunari attacking Orlais and killing countless people on both sides. Hawke actually did the world a favor there.

#89
TheKomandorShepard

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...


My gogh what? Somebody not agreeing with you?

1. Money would come from the dwarf who funds Hawke if they don't have enough by the end of Act 1. Anders isn't the only person with a map, plus there's alays looking for the entrances. And skilled fighters can get through Darkspawn just as easy as Hawke and Co did. Bartrand was obsessed with this venture. He was not going to give up until he succeeded. 

2. The group being destroyed does not mean fractions do not still exist. If that's the case, then Templars no longer exist because they are no longer a single group. Plus Hawke can report Anders, showing they do not care what happens to Anders, yet nothing becomes of it.

3. Toushe. However by same token, they never said it wasn't.

5(because 4 was skipped for some reason). When "weapon" equaled "names of all Qun followers in Orlais and their families, yes he would cause genocide. Which would result in Qunari attacking Orlais and killing countless people on both sides. Hawke actually did the world a favor there.


Because it is like arguing with wall simple it wouldn't happened without hawke even cassandra have that thought as well varric...

1.No he didn't wanted deal with him as it is said... only grey wardens have map anders had that because he stole that as he was grey warden.... and no all money went on expedition bartrand didn't had any mercenaries and it would be take a lot more than simple trained warrior on deep roads... even if he was successful (and it is very doubtfull) it would take a long time before he would touch red lyrium

2.Yes it was destroyed perhaps in other cities not but in kirkwall yes templars did good job underground was done and templars was after mages then hawke became champion and give anders protection... cullen was an idiot... i doubt that meredith would let anders go she knew about him in third act but she would ****** off hawke who was popular in kirkwall...

3.Knowing laziness of devs it would be possible to have such scenario but i doubt she would do that she needed invitation and hawke help to fight duke but again tallis =black hole sue

4.Huh what you are talking about he would kill qunari spies hawke screwd entire thedas because now qunari have spies and they will attack thedas so no hawke screwd up this is obvious they will attack and better is not to have spies in your ranks who will inform qunari and dig over you...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 20 février 2014 - 09:01 .


#90
Grieving Natashina

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When it comes to #3: It's not like Hawke had any choice in the matter whatsoever. If anything, we can thank the Grey Wardens for hiring the Carta to drag Hawke out to the middle of nowhere.

I think the reason why people infer that Coryphesus' prison is breaking is because we see Wardens trying to bust through there. Most of the Carta dwarves are in Cory's thrall, and there is codex laying around that implies the prison is weakening.

When it comes to #4: Look, I'll be the first to say that Hawke (especially some of Hawke's companions) were great at screwing things up royally. However, MotA was one of the few times that his/her presence prevent things from getting worse.

A mass genocide of anyone Qun, lead by a noble from Orlais? Imagine if some of those agents were in Ferelden. Many nobles in Ferelden are jumpy, and not everyone would believe that soliders from Orlais were there just to route out Qunari agents.  
As (King) Alistair says, Orlais is itching to "get its lost province back."  If Prosper has figured out what that scroll meant, he would've triggered a huge war.  Gods know that Thedas has enough wars (big and small) going on at the moment without adding more fuel to the raging fires.

Modifié par Starsyn, 20 février 2014 - 09:08 .


#91
Bond

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CybAnt1 wrote...

Just a warning, the last thread on this topic was not just locked, but vanished.

And I'm not doing the "inb4" thing.


If you mean my thread, it is alive and well. Just on second page, no lock or w/e. No one wants DA2 system all over again, but we cant do much, besides complaining. 

Modifié par LoyalFan, 20 février 2014 - 09:08 .


#92
Hanako Ikezawa

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Because it is like arguing with wall simple it wouldn't happened without hawke even cassandra have that thought as well varric...

People have different opinions than you, so accept that. And saying things like "it is like talking to a wall" does not help your case, but just makes you look like an immature, closeminded jerk.

Because of that comment, I see there is no further point in trying to have a discussion with you. Farewell.

#93
Ieldra

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 *Reads the thread*

Really, I wish people would learn the distinction between "It's bad" and "I hate it". I understand that some people don't like DA2's story, but while DA2 had more or less "objective" flaws like the re-used map parts and the airdropping enemies, the story was fine with the exception of the extreme presentation of the mages just to make more people side with the templars and the omnipresent insanity. It was just a different kind of story with a smaller scope than we're used to in fantasy games. Personally, I think this made our Hawkes very relatable as characters and their story more grounded than the Warden's. I understand why people didn't like that, and I wouldn't want DAI to follow in the same path either, but IMO, DA2 was a refreshing change from the "standard fantasy video game plot".

Also, DA2's writing, in general, was actually quite good, at least by videogame standards. Still too much contrived drama here and there and a few instances of contrived stupidity, but there's a world of difference compared to ME3. Apart from that, comparing DAO's and DA2's writing is bound to fail, since DA2's style is more like screenwriting while DAO's is more like literary writing, due to the voiced protagonist and the cinematic presentation of DA2. Screenwriting has its pitfalls, most notably the temptation for contrived drama and a difficulty with presenting complex issues, but it isn't necessarily worse than literary writing (though specific instances are more often than not, in my opinion). It's also significantly harder to do than literary writing.

Personally, I do prefer DAO's style, but only because I hate contrived drama at the expense of common sense far more than any possible benefit could balance (once reason for that is that I like to play more emotionally detached characters, and being forced into drama with them is annoying), and even though DA2 suffered from this far less than ME3, I still think the writers thought too much about drama and too little about plot, character and world consistency. Still, these flaws are not a necessary consequence of the way DA2 was written, only a common one. If DAI's writing starts with DA2's and aims to improve, the result can be very good. Whether it will be, that remains to be seen.

Edit:
About Hawke: Hawke was a catalyst for greater events he could do nothing about. They did the best they could with the knowledge they had, that's really all you can expect from anyone. They couldn't know some of the consequences of their actions. That does reflect badly on them.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 février 2014 - 09:19 .


#94
Grieving Natashina

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Because it is like arguing with wall simple it wouldn't happened without hawke even cassandra have that thought as well varric...

People have different opinions than you, so accept that. And saying things like "it is like talking to a wall" does not help your case, but just makes you look like an immature, closeminded jerk.

Because of that comment, I see there is no further point in trying to have a discussion with you. Farewell.

Just remember this quote, LDS:

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."— Winston Churchill

Modifié par Starsyn, 20 février 2014 - 09:09 .


#95
TheKomandorShepard

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

People have different opinions than you, so accept that. And saying things like "it is like talking to a wall" does not help your case, but just makes you look like an immature, closeminded jerk.

Because of that comment, I see there is no further point in trying to have a discussion with you. Farewell.


You can have different opinions but opinions may be stupid , naive or di**** some of my opinions are di****** and i know that...

Bartrand couldn't handle that expedition without hawke we could see that during game when he couldn't go pass through obstacle then hawke let him pass further...

I can understand that other have different opinions but if that opinion is all peoles are pure good just sorry i will call that naive...

#96
Bond

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Ieldra2 wrote...

 *Reads the thread*

Really, I wish people would learn the distinction between "It's bad" and "I hate it". I understand that some people don't like DA2's story, but while DA2 had more or less "objective" flaws like the re-used map parts and the airdropping enemies, the story was fine with the exception of the extreme presentation of the mages just to make more people side with the templars and the omnipresent insanity. It was just a different kind of story with a smaller scope than we're used to in fantasy games. Personally, I think this made our Hawkes very relatable as characters and their story more grounded than the Warden's. I understand why people didn't like that, and I wouldn't want DAI to follow in the same path either, but IMO, DA2 was a refreshing change from the "standard fantasy video game plot".

Also, DA2's writing, in general, was actually quite good, at least by videogame standards. Still too much contrived drama here and there and a few instances of contrived stupidity, but there's a world of difference compared to ME3. Apart from that, comparing DAO's and DA2's writing is bound to fail, since DA2's style is more like screenwriting while DAO's is more like literary writing, due to the voiced protagonist and the cinematic presentation of DA2. Screenwriting has its pitfalls, most notably the temptation for contrived drama and a difficulty with presenting complex issues, but it isn't necessarily worse than literary writing (though specific instances are more often than not, in my opinion). It's also significantly harder to do than literary writing.

Personally, I do prefer DAO's style, but only because I hate contrived drama at the expense of common sense far more than any possible benefit could balance, and even though DA2 suffered from this far less than ME3, I still think the writers thought too much about drama and too little about plot, character and world consistency. Still, these flaws are not a necessary consequence of the way DA2 was written, only a common one. If DAI's writing starts with DA2's and aims to improve, the result can be very good. Whether it will be, that remains to be seen.

Edit:
About Hawke: Hawke was a catalyst for greater events he could do nothing about. They did the best they could with the knowledge they had, that's really all you can expect from anyone. They couldn't know some of the consequences of their actions. That does reflect badly on them.


I enjoyed Mass Effect 3 conversations between 160-450 times more than DAII. Writing in Mass Effect 3 is way better, even though last game was simplified, just like most bioware games tend to do as they progress. DAII was just obnoxious.
Never forget: Anders"out of no f where: I love you and you have three optons 1. I love you, 2. Me 2, 3, Sorry Anders not interested. By choosing third one it gets you 10 rivalry. Dumbest moment i had in a game by far.

Modifié par LoyalFan, 20 février 2014 - 09:17 .


#97
Hellion Rex

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I actually kind of like how DA2 made me care more about the stories of my individual companions, which I wasn't quite as interested in when I played DAO. Even now, I find myself actually growing to like some of their stories even more. Heck, I find myself kind of understanding Meredith even more (even if she is still batsh*t crazy). While the plot itself might have suffered, I was far more compelled by many of the characters within DA2.

Modifié par eluvianix, 20 février 2014 - 09:17 .


#98
KaiserShep

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MevenSelas wrote...
I think "canceling out" the events of DA2 would actually be a great twist, not just a ploy to appease some people.

It might make Varric an interesting character.


I'm of the opinion that this would only serve to the series' detriment. The last thing it needs is big deception twists, because far too often they turn out to be cheap gotcha tactics. I do not want BioWare to go M. Night Shyamalan on Dragon Age.

#99
Hellion Rex

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KaiserShep wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...
I think "canceling out" the events of DA2 would actually be a great twist, not just a ploy to appease some people.

It might make Varric an interesting character.


I'm of the opinion that this would only serve to the series' detriment. The last thing it needs is big deception twists, because far too often they turn out to be cheap gotcha tactics. I do not want BioWare to go M. Night Shyamalan on Dragon Age.

DO NOT SPEAK THAT FOUL CREATURE'S NAME.

#100
Ieldra

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@LoyalFan:
The best parts of ME3 were very good, but the prevalence of stupidity and contrived drama in other places determined the impression of the whole for me. At least, when DA2 failed, it was mostly in small things. Also, in my personal experience, there are times when DA2 made me facepalm, but ME3 made me walk up the walls, let my head explode and induced a temptation to hit the writers, and not just because the things I hate but which aren't necessarily bad, of which there were many as well. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 février 2014 - 09:25 .