509 réponses à ce sujet

[dekarserverbot]

Sorry, but one person's opinion does not equal fact or The Truth. no matter the number of like opinions.

facts don't exist, neither the truth...

[Darkly Tranquil]

Sorry, but one person's opinion does not equal fact or The Truth. no matter the number of like opinions.

In this day and age, truth is determined by the number of "likes" an opinion gets.

[Pateu]

DA2 was a rushed mess that should be forgotten. A game that solely takes place in 1 city? I would be able to deal with that if the city had any life in it whatsoever. Re used environments? Enemy waves? From a $60 AAA title? Yea, no. That's a ****** joke.

 

Compare DA2 to any other WRPG in its class and it comes out short.

 

Well, that's easy. Skyrim and Oblivion are both extremely dumbed down versions of TES3 and are little more than hack and slashes with RPG elements.

 

Your actions don't change the world one bit, you have like 6 VAs in the whole Skyrim region, no one reacts to the Emperor being dead and so on.

 

Without mods those games are unplayable. Tons of bugs, crappy UI, etc.

[Elhanan]

Well, that's easy. Skyrim and Oblivion are both extremely dumbed down versions of TES3 and are little more than hack and slashes with RPG elements.
 
Your actions don't change the world one bit, you have like 6 VAs in the whole Skyrim region, no one reacts to the Emperor being dead and so on.
 
Without mods those games are unplayable. Tons of bugs, crappy UI, etc.

Sorry, but others appear to differ on this opinion. Gopher mentioned this recently, and recommended this vid:



One of the selling points of Skyrim is that there are many elements in the game that gain reactions: Spell effects, armors, skill increases, certain skills, etc.

I have 700+ hrs of gameplay with only a single mod for No More Blocky Faces, so evidently myself and many console players are able to get along just fine w/o mods.

Thing is, DA2 does not need to defend itself from differing opinions; neither does Skyrim.

[Pateu]

I'm not going to watch 22 minutes of someone speaking against what I already know is true.

 

Attributes are gone, primary/secondary skills are gone, combat is the same as it was in 2006, you have 6 VAs for the whole game, your choices don't really change the world at all.

 

At least in Dragon Age 2 you start a civil war.

[MagicalMaster]

I'm not going to watch 22 minutes of someone speaking against what I already know is true.

Talk about having an open mind!

 

And I say that as someone who's never played an Elder Scrolls game and thus have no horse in this race.

[Elhanan]

I'm not going to watch 22 minutes of someone speaking against what I already know is true.
 
Attributes are gone, primary/secondary skills are gone, combat is the same as it was in 2006, you have 6 VAs for the whole game, your choices don't really change the world at all.
 
At least in Dragon Age 2 you start a civil war.

I have only played Skyrim, but am more likely to accept Gopher's opinion.

There are over 50 VA in the game; confirmed by Bethesda. In Skyrim, you can end a Civil War.

Opinion does not equal fact or truth.

[Pateu]

There are over 50 VA in the game;

 

And how many of them voice more than 1 character?

 

Most of the generic nords/bandits are voiced by the same 2-3 people.

 

Most of the time you get 2 characters making a remark and surprise... they sound the same.

[Pateu]

Talk about having an open mind!

 

And I say that as someone who's never played an Elder Scrolls game and thus have no horse in this race.

 

Well that would explain your ignorance. You don't need to watch a video about how TES wasn't dumbed down.

 

Most people that aren't delusional know it was.

[Elhanan]

And how many of them voice more than 1 character?[/size]

 
Most of the generic nords/bandits are voiced by the same 2-3 people.[/size]
 
Most of the time you get 2 characters making a remark and surprise... they sound the same.[/size]

Again, this is incorrect: http://elderscrolls....e_Cast_(Skyrim)

[Pateu]

 
Most of the generic nords/bandits are voiced by the same 2-3 people.[/size]
 
Most of the time you get 2 characters making a remark and surprise... they sound the same.[/size]

Again, this is incorrect: http://elderscrolls....e_Cast_(Skyrim)

 

Actually, that's correct. Look at the list. You have 3 VAs for '' Male Nords ''.

 

And back to my question. Out of those 50 VAs how many play more than one character?

[Elhanan]

Actually, that's correct. Look at the list. You have 3 VAs for '' Male Nords ''.
 
And back to my question. Out of those 50 VAs how many play more than one character?

Of those pictured, I count 30 that did more than one voice. And the site lists 70+ as the number of VA's; some seen here:



Opinion does not equate to fact.

[AlanC9]

Talk about having an open mind!
 
And I say that as someone who's never played an Elder Scrolls game and thus have no horse in this race.

Hey, I wouldn't commit 22 minutes to watching something that I could read in three minutes. I've never seen one of these vids yet that wasn't a horribly inefficient method of communicating the underlying ideas.

Not a commentary on that particular vid. I checked out of the TES series after Morrowind.

[Elhanan]

Hey, I wouldn't commit 22 minutes to watching something that I could read in three minutes. I've never seen one of these vids yet that wasn't a horribly inefficient method of communicating the underlying ideas.

Not a commentary on that particular vid. I checked out of the TES series after Morrowind.

This vid is in response to another using the same dumbed down arguments, and Gopher brought this vid up in his discussions. I was simply trying to go back to the source. There is also a part two, in case any are interested.

And while I cannot speak to earlier TES mechanics, I enjoy Skyrim and the ones used there, and look forward to playing SkyWind; the MW storyline with Skyrim mechanics and graphics.

[dekarserverbot]

I have only played Skyrim, but am more likely to accept Gopher's opinion.

There are over 50 VA in the game; confirmed by Bethesda. In Skyrim, you can end a Civil War.

Opinion does not equal fact or truth.

 

you sound like a moronic sheep saying exactly the same over and over.

[MagicalMaster]

Hey, I wouldn't commit 22 minutes to watching something that I could read in three minutes. I've never seen one of these vids yet that wasn't a horribly inefficient method of communicating the underlying ideas.

Oh, I know, but note how he didn't ask for a summary or anything?  Can easily see him saying

 

"I'm not going to spend three minutes reading a post of someone speaking against what I already know is true."

 

Well that would explain your ignorance. You don't need to watch a video about how TES wasn't dumbed down.

 

Most people that aren't delusional know it was.

 

Perhaps.

 

On the flip side, 95% of the time I've heard people complaining about things being dumbed down they were talking nonsense -- be it ME -> ME2, WoW expansion to WoW expansion, DA:O -> DA:2, etc.

[Elhanan]

you sound like a moronic sheep saying exactly the same over and over.

Easily fixed by use of the Ignore function; works for me.

And when those stating that an opinion equals the truth or is a fact, they may have missed previous attempts to clarify the difference.

[dekarserverbot]

Easily fixed by use of the Ignore function; works for me.

And when those stating that an opinion equals the truth or is a fact, they may have missed previous attempts to clarify the difference.

there is no difference, each truth is subjetive, facts are just povs of diferent groups of individuals that think they are right...

[Askeladden]

I really liked DA2, I did not think it was worse than DA:O. In my opinion they were both just as good, and both had their flaws. Sure I wanted to play as my character from DA:O in DA2 but after having played as Hawke for a while I didn't care anymore, Hawke is awesome and so is Bethany too, she had a lot of potential, I wish she would have had a bigger role in the game, I hope he is back in DA:I  

[Pateu]

On the flip side, 95% of the time I've heard people complaining about things being dumbed down they were talking nonsense -- be it ME -> ME2, WoW expansion to WoW expansion, DA:O -> DA:2, etc.

[Pateu]

 

Perhaps.

 

On the flip side, 95% of the time I've heard people complaining about things being dumbed down they were talking nonsense -- be it ME -> ME2, WoW expansion to WoW expansion, DA:O -> DA:2, etc.

 

They were right, though. Those games are dumbed down compared to their predecessors.

 

Dragon Age 2 had warriors unable to use dual wielding and companions unable to use anything else than their default weapons. Thus less customisation and builds.

 

ME2 ditched a lot of ME1's customisation- namely the spells, ammo types, weapon mods.

 

World of Warcraft is known to have become more and more casual. Look at the LFR and other crap they introduced so that even the worst casual can raid.

[dekarserverbot]

They were right, though. Those games are dumbed down compared to their predecessors.

 

Dragon Age 2 had warriors unable to use dual wielding and companions unable to use anything else than their default weapons. Thus less customisation and builds.

 

ME2 ditched a lot of ME1's customisation- namely the spells, ammo types, weapon mods.

 

World of Warcraft is known to have become more and more casual. Look at the LFR and other crap they introduced so that even the worst casual can raid.

I could deal with mass effect 2 (I own the trylogy in the 360). But Dragon age 2 went off the limits, and about WoW i stopped in pandaria, i feel it was a very bad joke and blizzard portrayed me just as a brainless cow who loves trending stuff and has a big wallet.

 

But this reminds me on the statement that gamer community is poisonous and unwelcoming with new people. This is not the case... can you imagine NFL if they instead of letting the trained players and college "rokies" to play they let the fat chip dipping fans (like my sister) to play the games instead? Could you imagine if wrestling leagues used unbelted martial artist with no aknowledge in interpretation to perform in ring instead of the gym trained and script versed wrestlers? there are facebook games for casual people, and not only that, want to get in the deep of an RPG? there is Pokemon, megaman battle network and other one button rpg with simple tactics. Not every RPG must be "casual friendly". This is what is wrong when introduccing reading in school: you are forced to read long boring books instead of something light but interesting, make an essay of it and end by having a bad note because what you write was your own personal opinion, but that doesn't mean we should dumb down nietzche's crap literature into a flyer or proust boring works into a coloring book.. this was what has been done with every game that is "nintendo hard". Dragon Age is not mean for "casual" players, it should have not that approach in DA2.

[MagicalMaster]

I'm going to assume you are earnest and give you a chance.

 

Dragon Age 2 had warriors unable to use dual wielding and companions unable to use anything else than their default weapons. Thus less customisation and builds.

That doesn't equate to dumbing down the game.  Complexity does not equal depth.  If you're not aware of the difference I can explain it.

 

In regards to combat specifically, I only play on Nightmare.  And DA:O was ANYTHING but deep.  My standard tactics were...

 

Alistair taunts

Force Field Alistair

Nuke the enemies with AoE if weak or auto attack with staff if strong

 

Repeat.

 

Alternatively, if enemy is mage then Mana Clash for one hit kill or Crushing Prison if MC was on cooldown.

 

I generally breezed through combat without paying any attention except for perhaps the revenants the first time, Branhka, and whatshername Lieutenant of Loghain who was stronger than the Archdemon.  Nothing else is standing out as making me think much and even those fights had little depth.

 

Then look at DA:2.  I was monitoring like four different CC spells and applying them at specific times to specific priority targets in combat along with focus firing to keep things under control.  Then also worrying about getting threat, manipulating threat, and positioning for different enemies.  Combat was something besides a simple snorefest that made me want to sleep through like DA:O's.

 

Still massive flaws with the combat, but the system had far more depth and the talent trees were far more interesting and deep than DA:O's.

 

ME2 ditched a lot of ME1's customisation- namely the spells, ammo types, weapon mods.

 

I'm not sure what you even mean by "the spells" -- still had things like Lift/Pull/Overload/etc in ME2.  And these skills could be evolved into one of two different improvements at max rank which was a huge leap forward over ME1.

 

Ammo types WERE a type of weapon mods and ammo powers still exist in ME2.

 

Weapon mods were pretty irrelevant overall -- you picked one and then ignored it.

 

Regarding weapons, ME2 actually had different weapons act very differently.  The Vindicator was very different from the Avenger or Revenant while in ME1 every assault rifle was equivalent in playstyle.  Then more depth was added in combat itself with different weapons doing better extra different defenses (yet another addition to add more depth).  Sniper rifles did far less to a shielded target than an SMG with the reverse being true for armor.  Plus powers had the same kind of system.

 

Combat had far more depth (AND complexity) in ME2 than ME1 where you'd literally sit there immune to damage spamming your assault rifle point blank range in the fact of an enemy also immune to damage.  ME1's combat was horrid, I only played on Insanity for the principle of the thing and have recommended other people don't bother, it's simply stupid.  ME2's Insanity was actually engaging.

 

World of Warcraft is known to have become more and more casual. Look at the LFR and other crap they introduced so that even the worst casual can raid.

 

You may have missed it, but most games have difficulty settings.  I'm assuming by your statement that you (like me) only played the ME and DA series on the hardest difficulty possible?  Otherwise you're just a filthy casual, right?  Or you know what, I'll cut you some slack, we'll just remove the Easy and Normal settings which leaves you something like Hard and Nightmare if I recall correctly.  Does this make sense?

 

Nothing has become more casual in the actual difficult content of WoW.  The best guild in the world took over 600 attempts to kill a boss in the latest patch.  All of the last 3-4 bosses in this patch take even extremely skilled groups over 100+ pulls, often 200+ pulls.

 

If you were to ask a serious raider who lives for challenge what the hardest bosses in WoW were, at least 1 boss on the list would be from the latest patch (potentially up to 3), another one (potentially 2) would be from the second to last patch, and a boss from halfway through the last expansion would definitely be on there as well.

 

This boss took the best guild over 500 pulls.

 

This was like 200+.

 

Another extremely difficult boss (300+ pulls iirc).

 

I could link dozens more.  Raiding in general has never be harder

.

Now compare that 500 pull boss to this "old school" version of the same boss.

 

Notice how the entire fight literally just involving standing there and shooting the boss and occasionally being knocked about by the boss?  That fight was considered difficult at the time.

 

This is not the case... can you imagine NFL if they instead of letting the trained players and college "rokies" to play they let the fat chip dipping fans (like my sister) to play the games instead?

 

Is there a reason the NFL can't exist for the best players, college/high school leagues for good players, and casual leagues for people who just like the idea of the sport but are terrible at it?  Or do we need to ban all but the best leagues?

 

Dragon Age is not mean for "casual" players, it should have not that approach in DA2.

 

So why does it have an easy mode?  And I trust you only played it on Nightmare, right?

[tirnoney]

I'm going to assume you are earnest and give you a chance.

That doesn't equate to dumbing down the game. Complexity does not equal depth. If you're not aware of the difference I can explain it.

In regards to combat specifically, I only play on Nightmare. And DA:O was ANYTHING but deep. My standard tactics were...

Alistair taunts
Force Field Alistair
Nuke the enemies with AoE if weak or auto attack with staff if strong

Repeat.

Alternatively, if enemy is mage then Mana Clash for one hit kill or Crushing Prison if MC was on cooldown.

I generally breezed through combat without paying any attention except for perhaps the revenants the first time, Branhka, and whatshername Lieutenant of Loghain who was stronger than the Archdemon. Nothing else is standing out as making me think much and even those fights had little depth.

Then look at DA:2. I was monitoring like four different CC spells and applying them at specific times to specific priority targets in combat along with focus firing to keep things under control. Then also worrying about getting threat, manipulating threat, and positioning for different enemies. Combat was something besides a simple snorefest that made me want to sleep through like DA:O's.

Still massive flaws with the combat, but the system had far more depth and the talent trees were far more interesting and deep than DA:O's.


I'm not sure what you even mean by "the spells" -- still had things like Lift/Pull/Overload/etc in ME2. And these skills could be evolved into one of two different improvements at max rank which was a huge leap forward over ME1.

Ammo types WERE a type of weapon mods and ammo powers still exist in ME2.

Weapon mods were pretty irrelevant overall -- you picked one and then ignored it.

Regarding weapons, ME2 actually had different weapons act very differently. The Vindicator was very different from the Avenger or Revenant while in ME1 every assault rifle was equivalent in playstyle. Then more depth was added in combat itself with different weapons doing better extra different defenses (yet another addition to add more depth). Sniper rifles did far less to a shielded target than an SMG with the reverse being true for armor. Plus powers had the same kind of system.

Combat had far more depth (AND complexity) in ME2 than ME1 where you'd literally sit there immune to damage spamming your assault rifle point blank range in the fact of an enemy also immune to damage. ME1's combat was horrid, I only played on Insanity for the principle of the thing and have recommended other people don't bother, it's simply stupid. ME2's Insanity was actually engaging.


You may have missed it, but most games have difficulty settings. I'm assuming by your statement that you (like me) only played the ME and DA series on the hardest difficulty possible? Otherwise you're just a filthy casual, right? Or you know what, I'll cut you some slack, we'll just remove the Easy and Normal settings which leaves you something like Hard and Nightmare if I recall correctly. Does this make sense?

Nothing has become more casual in the actual difficult content of WoW. The best guild in the world took over 600 attempts to kill a boss in the latest patch. All of the last 3-4 bosses in this patch take even extremely skilled groups over 100+ pulls, often 200+ pulls.

If you were to ask a serious raider who lives for challenge what the hardest bosses in WoW were, at least 1 boss on the list would be from the latest patch (potentially up to 3), another one (potentially 2) would be from the second to last patch, and a boss from halfway through the last expansion would definitely be on there as well.

This boss took the best guild over 500 pulls.

This was like 200+.

Another extremely difficult boss (300+ pulls iirc).

I could link dozens more. Raiding in general has never be harder
.
Now compare that 500 pull boss to this "old school" version of the same boss.

Notice how the entire fight literally just involving standing there and shooting the boss and occasionally being knocked about by the boss? That fight was considered difficult at the time.


Is there a reason the NFL can't exist for the best players, college/high school leagues for good players, and casual leagues for people who just like the idea of the sport but are terrible at it? Or do we need to ban all but the best leagues?


So why does it have an easy mode? And I trust you only played it on Nightmare, right?

Some people perceive that the baseline combat difficulty i.e. normal has become easier in many of these games. Why they would object to that when we have hard and nightmare/insanity difficulties for them I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps it's simply a form of gaming elitism. Personally I'm all for games being inclusive in many different aspects from race to gender to combat. Bioware is one of the best on that front. The fact that I now play DA2 on nightmare should not stop complete novices from buying the game and enjoying it. It would appear that some people don't share that view.

[dekarserverbot]

Some people perceive that the baseline combat difficulty i.e. normal has become easier in many of these games. Why they would object to that when we have hard and nightmare/insanity difficulties for them I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps it's simply a form of gaming elitism. Personally I'm all for games being inclusive in many different aspects from race to gender to combat. Bioware is one of the best on that front. The fact that I now play DA2 on nightmare should not stop complete novices from buying the game and enjoying it. It would appear that some people don't share that view.

 

The trouble is when that difficulty is just "add more energy to pinatas" or take LONGER to achieve the same that in EASY... DA2 was not the first game i tonned down the difficulty because it represent nothing different than nightmare, except for extended life bars (and how could i notice that mabaris were inmune to fire if i was a 2 handed warrior?). I also burst planets in spore once they reach space (and restart them in easy) because the only thing that changes is that energy depletes faster... playing space stage in spore in hard difficulty was the same as playing facebook games, but without expending dollars or bashing my friends for energy.