509 réponses à ce sujet

[Maliken]

Have heard good things concerning the storyline and choices, but it received less flattering comments on game mechanics. I stay away due to profanity and sexual content, other areas are criticized, too.

 

Combat responsiveness was an issue and the fact that excelling in W2's combat revolved on mobility and maneuverability, the latter not truly an issue, if it weren't that the game often throwed multiple opponents at you in incredibly tight spaces.  Seeing as the animations are redone, and W3 is an open world game, it seems these problems have been addressed in the next game.

 

Other than this, I found it a highly enjoyable game, having read the novels and short stories I obviously get more out of the lore, world setting and characters. 

[Jukaga]

The hitboxes in W2 are really bad for one thing, you'll clearly dodge an attack but it will connect half the time. DA2 had this problem too with it's MMO style combat though.

[pprrff]

Honestly, the core of DA:II was fine. In fact, in some areas it exceeds origin. It's much more character focused and I feel more engaged emotionally in DA:II.  

 

Had they acknowledged that this was a product developed in less than a year, therefore should be in no way compared to Origin (which took at least 2 years to make), sold for maybe $45, that would have been fine.

 

Instead, they try to pass it off as a full game equal to Origin, and try to pad out the gameplay with useless, boring fluff, which caused it to endsup being a superficially fuller, but inferior product.

[Sidney]

 

Had they acknowledged that this was a product developed in less than a year, therefore should be in no way compared to Origin (which took at least 2 years to make), sold for maybe $45, that would have been fine.

 

 

The short time frame was even more problematic when you consider how much work they did on skill trees, combat, dialog and so forth. It would be one thing if it was like DAA where they just built a new story on the same engine but they made a lot of technical and rules engine changes along with trying to write a new game. It was too much in too short a time. DAO was a lot more than 2 years in development, IIRC it was like 4-5.

[Joseph Warrick]

In terms of the enemies, I found Loghain interesting and relatable even after his defeat (very entertaining dialogue with him as a warden) whereas Meredith and Orsino have simpler personalities.

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

DA2 is not as bad like haters of the game would like to paint it.

 

They just refuse to be caged in Kirkwall and see Hawke's perspective.

 

I actually enjoyed it more than DAO. Because it wasn't too cliche and borrow too much from "gather allies aka ME" and fight the ultimate boss. It has a better ending than ME3 too.

 

DA2 is just a fraction of DAO. But the story-telling was more polished and intuitive.

 

Stop comparing DAO's huge perspective to DA2's more specific story.

 

 

[dekarserverbot]

where should i start...

DA2 is not as bad like haters of the game would like to paint it.

 

I compared it with other lame "games" like god of war and dinasty warriors... that KIND of pseudo RPG is something i don't like.

They just refuse to be caged in Kirkwall and see Hawke's perspective.

 

Oh yes i'm a pathetic guy who is ignored by everyone, very funny perspective. Oh wait i can actually try to date an hetero character completely destroyed, a little 8 year old or so girl, a grumpy androginous elf, and a sleazzy girl that looks like my sister... sorry that perspective is really bad.

 

I actually enjoyed it more than DAO. Because it wasn't too cliche and borrow too much from "gather allies aka ME" and fight the ultimate boss. It has a better ending than ME3 too.

 

Even Karnov's Revenge censored ending was better than ME3 ending, even if true this point is completely irrelevant

 

Stop comparing DAO's huge perspective to DA2's more specific story.

 

Specific in what? it had no shades of gray like DAO, it was Mage equal GOOD and Templar equals BAD. There were no memorable characters like Bhelen, a hardened tyrant that wanted the best for it's own people, or Loghain, a true villian with brainpower and blinded by his own hate. Saying that DA2 had a more specific story is like saying that Disney Malefica's storyline (full of plotholes and excuses) was a masterpiece compared with Forrest Gump that is a boring story about a chosen one that achieved everything just because he was Forrest Gump (which was not)... Really what you said was a crime.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

"Why do people think DA2 is so bad compared to DAO" is kind of generalized isnt it? personally i think DA2 is at least 2 times better than DAO......... flame away

[-TC1989-]

For me personally... DA2 was one of those games, that the more I played it, the more my expectations were lowering. Sounds weird, but as I was going through it, I was slowly getting less excited about what was next to come. This isn't to say I didn't like the game, it just wasn't exactly the emotional Dragon Age experience I had been waiting for.

[Riven326]

I finally got around to playing the Witcher 2 this weekend and wow, it's staggering how much better W2 is over DA2. That is a polished, engaging, mature RPG. I still like DA2's characters more, but everything else goes to the Witcher 2.

 

If I want mature content, video games are the last resort.

[Maliken]

Mature is a rather broad term, one of the things I find the Witcher games do well is incite thought, generally not treating the player like an idiot.

[MagicalMaster]

where should i start...

 

That's exactly what your post has me thinking!

 

I compared it with other lame "games" like god of war and dinasty warriors... that KIND of pseudo RPG is something i don't like.

 

Even if it was thought to be different, that doesn't mean it is bad, just that you don't like that style of game.  Let me ask you this, though: in what way was DA:2 a psuedo RPG that DA:O was not?

 

Oh yes i'm a pathetic guy who is ignored by everyone, very funny perspective. Oh wait i can actually try to date an hetero character completely destroyed, a little 8 year old or so girl, a grumpy androginous elf, and a sleazzy girl that looks like my sister... sorry that perspective is really bad.

 

Except Hawke isn't ignored by everyone.  In Act 1 he's specifically sought out by Varric and he's earned a reputation during the year of service.  In Act 2 he's a noble and specifically asked by the Viscount to try to deal with the Quanari.  In Act 3 he's the Champion of the city.

 

Romance-wise, your corresponding options in DA:O were a former assassin who was plenty "sleazy" as you put it in the past, a power hungry witch of the wilds whose motives you don't trust, and a crazy elf who tried you kill you.  That perspective is pretty bad too.  Nor, of course, is Merrill an 8 year girl (or even act like it) and chances are any human character will look like someone's sister.

 

Even Karnov's Revenge censored ending was better than ME3 ending, even if true this point is completely irrelevant

 

No, it's not, a solid ending makes people forgive a lot of other flaws...and conversely, a poor ending has people dislike the game more in general.  Your statement is also irrelevant to HIS main point which was that the story wasn't cliche like DA:O, ME1, and ME3 (or many other games with the set-up of "Go to these 3-4 hub worlds/regions, gather information/forces, go beat bad guy.").  I found it a welcome change as well.

 

Specific in what? it had no shades of gray like DAO, it was Mage equal GOOD and Templar equals BAD. There were no memorable characters like Bhelen, a hardened tyrant that wanted the best for it's own people, or Loghain, a true villian with brainpower and blinded by his own hate. Saying that DA2 had a more specific story is like saying that Disney Malefica's storyline (full of plotholes and excuses) was a masterpiece compared with Forrest Gump that is a boring story about a chosen one that achieved everything just because he was Forrest Gump (which was not)... Really what you said was a crime.

 

Specific to Hawke and Kirkwall and one city instead of being something more sweeping across an entire country.  And it had plenty of shades of grey -- from Emeric to Thrask to Cullen on the good Templar side to the 304728934 Blood Mages running amok on the bad Mage side.

 

I didn't find Bhelen very memorable, Loghain yes.  But I found Varric and Aveline more memorable than anything in DA:O.

 

You're sounding like Loghain yourself, really, blinded by unfounded hate for DA2.  Calling someone else's post "a crime" when your own post is ignoring a ton of logic and nuance.

[ShadowLordXII]

Whether the game was good or bad (I liked it, I think it's good game), it's clearly inferior to Origins in a lot of ways.

 

1) Clearly rushed to cash-in on the 1st game's popularity.

 

2) RPG elements were stripped out or streamlined (only 1 race, can't customize companion armor, less variations in weapon styles)

 

3) Repeated environments in a noticeably smaller playing field (1 city in Kirkwall and it's surrounding area as opposed to an entire country and it's surrounding area in Origins)

 

4) Had an interesting main narrative, but everything fell apart in the Third Act. Not to mention that there were several implementation and pacing problems from the start which turn what should be "dramatic" situations into forced attempts at drama (The sibling thing at the beginning and during the Deep Roads expedition being two notable examples)

 

5) Several dramatic situations only happened because characters took a level in stupid (Marethari, I'm looking at you). Emotions can overwhelm logic, but stupid is as stupid does.

 

6) Central Conflict boils down to dark vs dark crisis which people can't get as invested in (Everyone's crazy and are destroying themselves regardless of Hawke's efforts)

 

I think that about covers everything. The backlash may be a little exaggerated and unnecessary, but plenty of fans expected a game that was as great as Origins and just didn't find it.

[Sean]

-Plot was weak

-Ending wasn't all that great, and both choices didn't really affect the last mission from a gameplay perspective

-Did not like the anime inspired folloer (aka Fenris), as it seemed out of place

-Overused environments (ironically when they were boasting on how it wouldn't reuse environments like with DAO)

-Combat was very dull and uninspired

-Did not like the Act strcuture of the narrative

-Did not like the dialogue wheel

-Did not like Kirkwall

 

So, those would be my reasons of why I did not like the game, and, from what I can tell, DAI looks to be 1000x better than DA2.

[KaiserShep]

Specific in what? it had no shades of gray like DAO, it was Mage equal GOOD and Templar equals BAD.

 

Dunno about that. Just look around a few threads and you'll see a fair share of reasons why some people sided with the Templars. DA2 offered up a number of bad mages that would pretty much make one wary of anything magic. I mean, you had the "apostitute" that used blood magic to turn your PC into a puppet temporarily, a necromancer that murders the PC's mother, and a slew of maleficarum causing all kinds of arcane shenanigans left and right, like Tarohne, who was possessing Templars. The difference is, the Templars are the official figures of authority, so naturally, any abuse on their part, even if it's some outliers like Alrik, will likely be regarded more negatively.

 

 

There were no memorable characters like Bhelen, a hardened tyrant that wanted the best for it's own people, or Loghain, a true villian with brainpower and blinded by his own hate. Saying that DA2 had a more specific story is like saying that Disney Malefica's storyline (full of plotholes and excuses) was a masterpiece compared with Forrest Gump that is a boring story about a chosen one that achieved everything just because he was Forrest Gump (which was not)... Really what you said was a crime.

 

Bhelen is an odd choice, but I guess this depends on the background you choose. As one who favors the human noble, Bhelen was no more memorable to me than the screaming Chasind in Lothering, but at least that guy made me laugh.

 

I assume that by specific, the poster means smaller scale, which it is. Specificity is not something DA:O is lacking anyway, since your objective is clear at the beginning, and does not deviate no matter what you choose throughout the main quest line.

[Sidney]

In terms of the enemies, I found Loghain interesting and relatable even after his defeat (very entertaining dialogue with him as a warden) whereas Meredith and Orsino have simpler personalities.

 

 

Loghain gets a big pass on basically being 100% BSC. Meredith at least has a reason to think the circle is out of control. Kirkwall is notorious for having a bad circle, Teviniter was doing something(?) to make it crazier, and Orisino is in league with a serial killer. Orsino actually has always been an interesting character all the moreso for helping a blood mage and serial killer frankly. He is walking a line trying to balance interests. His character is really only marred by the final "oh f'it I'm gonna become a boss monster" moment.

 

Loghain is willing to let the kingdom burn because of some mythical threat (there was no evidence of any Orleasian anything until the RTO DLC which felt a lot like a retcon since nothing in the base game supports Loghain's thoughts) while the evil hordes overrun the country and he assasinates, tortures and enslaves people. Seriously, he is so far down the Snidley Whiplash road it isn't funny but people think he is deep - I suspect it is the voice actor more than the substance of his character,

[Joseph Warrick]

I didn't say Loghain is correct.

 

I found Loghain interesting and relatable

 

Meredith has approximately one thought in seven years, as does Orsino.

[MagicalMaster]

2) RPG elements were stripped out or streamlined (only 1 race, can't customize companion armor, less variations in weapon styles)

 

Outside of the "Origin" stories race was irrelevant 99% of the time.  In most RPGs it's relevant like...0.5% of the time.

 

Companion armor had more customization with the rune slots than Origins did, see earlier discussion in this thread about how little companion armor customization there actually was.

There was actually far more variation in weapon styles in my experience, they each had their own unique attacks that actually mattered and had impact.

 

3) Repeated environments in a noticeably smaller playing field (1 city in Kirkwall and it's surrounding area as opposed to an entire country and it's surrounding area in Origins)

 

Repeated environments were bad, sure, but was noticeably smaller playing field an actual flaw?  Why can't you have an RPG set in one city and its environs?

 

I think that about covers everything. The backlash may be a little exaggerated and unnecessary, but plenty of fans expected a game that was as great as Origins and just didn't find it.

 

I thought it was better than Origins, frankly.

 

It was like they fixed the 50% of Origins that had major problems but then introduced major problems into 30% of the game.  Both games were flawed in different ways, but DA:2 came out ahead as a whole.

 

-Plot was weak

-Combat was very dull and uninspired

-Did not like the Act strcuture of the narrative

-Did not like the dialogue wheel

-Did not like Kirkwall

 

- More interesting than Origins

- Still ten times better than Origins

- Purely subjective personas preference, I thought it was better

- Purely subjective personal preference

- Why?  On general principle, too small, lack of detail?...

 

Meredith has approximately one thought in seven years, as does Orsino.

 

In Act 3 they have the whole discussion/argument at the start, Orsino has extended dialogue for Best Served Cold, and they have the whole argument prior to Anders blowing up the Chantry at an absolute minimum, there's three thoughts in less than a year!

 

Orsino actually has always been an interesting character all the moreso for helping a blood mage and serial killer frankly. He is walking a line trying to balance interests. His character is really only marred by the final "oh f'it I'm gonna become a boss monster" moment.

 

Agreed.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I didn't say Loghain is correct.
 
Meredith has approximately one thought in seven years, as does Orsino.

Neither Meredith or Orsino got enough screen time to really establish them as fully fleshed out characters. Like most characters in DA2, they ended up as one note stereotypes right up until near the end of Act 3, when we get a small glimpse of what they could have been had the devs had more time flesh them out. Meredith's apparent internal conflict over the mages and her own traumatic experience with her sister needed more attention to make her hard line on the mages more explicable and make more than simply a tyrant. Similarly, Orsino's efforts to get the Grand Cleric to intervene, while simultaneously trying to keep the blood mage situation under control without letting the Templars know, deserved more mention, since it ties in with All That Remains. Instead Meredith comes across as a hard line bully, and Orsino comes across as an ineffectual irrelevance.

Overall, the story works for the first two Act 2 (even if they feel not well related to each other, more like 2 DLCs than a single game), but Act 3 is where it all falls apart and everyone just goes nuts because reasons. Perhaps if they had made stuff in The Enigma of Kirkwall and the effect of the thinning of the Veil on the psyches of the residents and the presence of Xebenkeck a more prominent feature of the narrative, it would have made more sense. Intend, it just seems like Kirkwall goes to hell and there is no real explanation of why.

I have this image of Hawke wandering through Kirkwall in Act 3 and looking at Varric and saying, "We're the last sane people in this city, Varric", and Varric slinging Biance over his shoulder and replying, "No, Hawke, we're crazy, too. You have to be to live here."

[Riven326]

- More interesting than Origins

- Still ten times better than Origins

- Purely subjective personas preference, I thought it was better

- Purely subjective personal preference

- Why?  On general principle, too small, lack of detail?...

 

- While the plot itself may have been more interesting, but it was all over the place and lacked consistency.

- The combat itself was fine. It was the wave element that they introduced that was the problem.

- Again, the Act structure lacked consistency and introduced continuity issues.

- I thought the dialogue wheel was a good idea with a flawed execution and was more satisfying to use in Mass Effect.

- Kirkwall was simply boring and lacked polish. Denerim wasn't much better though. I think the biggest issue is that you rarely ever leave Kirkwall. Imagine if you arrive in Denerim in Origins and then rarely ever leave.

[Elhanan]

- While the plot itself may have been more interesting, but it was all over the place and lacked consistency.
- The combat itself was fine. It was the wave element that they introduced that was the problem.
- Again, the Act structure lacked consistency and introduced continuity issues.
- I thought the dialogue wheel was a good idea with a flawed execution and was more satisfying to use in Mass Effect.
- Kirkwall was simply boring and lacked polish. Denerim wasn't much better though. I think the biggest issue is that you rarely ever leave Kirkwall. Imagine if you arrive in Denerim in Origins and then rarely ever leave.

Wave combat was also seen in DAO. It was the appearances made from nowhere that were questionable. And the dialogue mechanics in ME are more rigid (ie; Paragon/ Renegade), where middle ground is discouraged until replays could be made. In DA2, one had a wider range of choice as to responses, though choices of persuasion were similarly locked. Personally, I prefer options, and enjoyed the multiple ranges experienced in SWTOR.

[Lady Luminous]

I think there are two camps of thought when it comes to customizing companion armour. 

 

I personally enjoy actually changing their armour and their look through the main armour they were. It's not so much about the stats, but the fact that they aren't wearing the exact same look 24/7. 

 

Other people consider adding runes to the armour customization, which I'm not a fan of. My first DA:O playthrough I actually went the entire game without even trying out enchantment. 

[Elfyoth]

Eventually I don't see DA2 as a game, I've hated the gameplay there, but I liked the charcters and story, it was more of a show to me

[Riven326]

I don't think party customization is essential to Dragon Age. But I do prefer to have it.

[Lady Luminous]

I don't think party customization is essential to Dragon Age. But I do prefer to have it.

 

It may not be essential, but I definitely missed it intensely in DA2. I had all these awesome sets that were locked to Hawke that I didn't have the stats for that would have worked beautifully for a companion.