509 réponses à ce sujet

[Natureguy85]

Both Varric and Leliana are ranged weapon storytellers with betrayal plot taking place.

 

 

No, that's a good point.

[springacres]

Just starting my first DA2 playthrough, and I have to say, so far I'm not impressed.  The graphics look way too smooth for the gritty game world, I hate the elf and dwarf morphs (okay... the elf morph suits Fenris and Merrill, but the rest of them?  Not so much.)  I'm not feeling connected to any of my companions except for the surviving sibling, and DA2 Anders is definitely disappointing.  I realize he's gone through a lot in a very short time, but I miss the friendly, irreverent, Awakening!Anders.

 

I also miss Oghren.  Crazy, drunk, funny Oghren.  In fact, I wish he'd been an Origins romance option for women, because I can see my F!Aeducan running to him for comfort after meeting Gorim in Denerim.

 

I don't know, maybe I'll change my mind as I get further into the game (10 hours into Act 1) but so far it's been kind of disappointing.

 

Belated edit to add: Having said that, there are things I do like about this game.

-faster combat system

-opportunity for more unique character builds (Companion-only specializations are a nice feature, seem to add a bit more balance to the combat system)

-the chance to explore a different geographical area of Thedas

-Dalish elves getting their own accent

-hints about who and what Flemeth really is

-opportunity to explore a lost bit of Grey Warden history that would horrify my canon Warden (I'm partway through Legacy, but I need to beef up my equipment before that final fight)

Modifié par springacres, 09 février 2015 - 03:29 .

[Teligth]

Most of what AWT42 said, personally.

 

From a story point of view it was as well-written as BioWare's other titles, but it was a huge thematic jump from Dragon Age: Origins. DA:O was a massive, sweeping epic tale that was founded on grey and gray morality. It had a clear, overarching plot for the player to follow a grand scheme you were always working towards: stop Loghain from ripping Ferelden apart and put an end to the Blight. Dragon Age II, on the other hand, retains a lot of the morality of DA:O but puts its focus on telling a character story- it's about Hawke, who Hawke was and the things they did while just trying to live their life. Each Act had the "feeling" of a looming plot or antagonist (Act 2 and 3 moreso than 1), but no clear overaching opposing force- something I know several DA:O fans didn't like.

 

Varric actually alludes to the difference in tone from what's expected of Hawke's story and what it really is when he's talking to Cassandra between acts- it's clear that while even in-universe DAII is expected to be this several year tale of how Hawke went to Kirkwall to weaken the Chantry's grasp and launch a civil war, Hawke's story is anything but that. It isn't a bad story by any means, but it went strongly against most fan expectations, which caused some upset.

 

There's also the lack of isometric-style play in DAII, coupled with its incredibly reused environment design. You start to lose it after you've entered all 4 dungeons from a different starting point oh, 80 times. It wasn't as bad of a game as some people like to say it was, but it definitely wasn't the same as (or even very similar to) Dragon Age: Origins, which was a very big letdown for a lot of fans- myself included at the time. Going back I do love its story and Hawke as a character, but I was livid about the change in direction at the time.

This is a great example of my dislike of DA2.

 

Points i'd like to add are:

1. The art style change was very jarring for me and it really threw me off at the massive change to the Quinari and elves. I agree the series needed it, but damn it wasn't what I expected.

2. The combat for me shifted more into a hack and slash than tactical combat, which really bothered me. I tried to create a mage, but when he started flinging his staff around to physically attack darkspawn I was thrown off yet again.

3. Not having the ability to choose a race (I get that this was more of a scripted personal tale, but after DAO where frankly one of the best parts of the game was the origins, it felt oddly lacking in a supposed Sequel to the franchise.)

4. Everyone being romanceable was a bit silly.

 

The story itself wasn't bad at all, but I spent most of the game just wanting to play as the Warden. I didn't really get a reason to care about Hawke as a whole.

[Teligth]

Just starting my first DA2 playthrough, and I have to say, so far I'm not impressed.  The graphics look way too smooth for the gritty game world, I hate the elf and dwarf morphs (okay... the elf morph suits Fenris and Merrill, but the rest of them?  Not so much.)  I'm not feeling connected to any of my companions except for the surviving sibling, and DA2 Anders is definitely disappointing.  I realize he's gone through a lot in a very short time, but I miss the friendly, irreverent, Awakening!Anders.

 

I also miss Oghren.  Crazy, drunk, funny Oghren.  In fact, I wish he'd been an Origins romance option for women, because I can see my F!Aeducan running to him for comfort after meeting Gorim in Denerim.

 

I don't know, maybe I'll change my mind as I get further into the game (10 hours into Act 1) but so far it's been kind of disappointing.

 

If you think the elf and dwarf redesigns are off putting, wait till you see the Quinari.

[springacres]

If you think the elf and dwarf redesigns are off putting, wait till you see the Quinari.

The Qunari redesign I can sort of understand, from a lore standpoint.  Ogres are darkspawn from Qunari broodmothers, they all have horns, so it makes sense that most Qunari would too.

 

And there's also the lore-breaking lack of (official) reaction to my Hawke's apostate status.  Her companions seem to be the only ones who actually care enough to bring it up.

[Cyrus Amell]

And there's also the lore-breaking lack of (official) reaction to my Hawke's apostate status.  Her companions seem to be the only ones who actually care enough to bring it up.

 

According to David Gaider,there was originally supposed to be a reason for why Apostate Hawke was not thrown into the Circle by the Knight Commander at any time - it had something to do with the Fade but he didn't elaborate. But the game was rushed so that bit got axed. In short, it does not make any sense at all. This is the same city Hawke's father had to flee after casting a single spell in the middle of a fight on the docks while disguised as a mercenary. That is why I never play as a mage Hawke - well, that and not wanting to put up with Carver.

[springacres]

Carver is definitely a twit, but losing his twin so soon after Ostagar... well, it kinda makes sense in my headcanon anyway.

 

As for the "apostate not causing a reaction" part, I'm starting to headcanon that maybe the templars just aren't that popular OR that Meredith has enough on her plate that she can't actually afford to lock up every mage in Kirkwall.   It's a bit of a stretch, granted, but there you have it.

 

Come to think of it, even Anders' explanation as to why he picked Kirkwall to run to doesn't make sense.  I can see my Warden following Zev to Sundermount, running into Anders somehow, and being equal parts shocked and glad to find HIM there.  Glad because the old Anders was a friend, shocked because WTH is the professional Circle escape artist doing in the Templars' city?

[Natureguy85]

well, that and not wanting to put up with Carver.

 

 

Carver is definitely a twit, but losing his twin so soon after Ostagar... well, it kinda makes sense in my headcanon anyway.

 

Carver doesn't work because we never get to see him being 2nd fiddle to Hawke. We are just given that impression or that he at least feels it, so he comes off as whiny. If they made Act 1 being that first year with the Mercenaries or Smugglers (also making that choice actually matter), they could have shown Hawke rising but Carver being looked down on or given crappy assignments. Then his resentment would actually make sense.

[luism]

If DA2 existed in a vaccum in which DAO wasn't it's predecessor DA2 would still be a lack luster game on it's own merits

/thread

[sjsharp2011]

I don't have a problem with DA2. Yes it has its flaws,  I just overlook them and  play the game. I will say the dlc I found better than the main game.
One disappointment for me was we couldn't have the same armor that Flemeth had. It looked really cool.

Same here in fact I personally liked 2 more than Origins as I found it easier to get to grips with. I do like Origins as I like all of the DA's but I just generally warm to games I feel I tend to get to grips with quicker but that's just me I've only recently bought the DA2 DLC's so haven't had a chance to play them yet. I'm looking forward to it though.

I think what puts people off DA2 is the fact thqat you spend the game largely in contained area's whereas in Origins there's plenty to explore and see and do. TBH I only have 2 complaints with regards Origins and they are the gasmes mechanics aer tricky to understand and get to grips with. Also the combat can be pretty tough in comparison to most games. It's a fun game though and I think despite the mistakes I made in my last run I think I can make progress.

For me my favourite is definitely the new Inquisition gasme because for me they've taken the best parts of both games. By this I mean they've taken the expansive world of DAOand also put in DA2's improved combat system or at least I think it's better than DAO's and thrown a new graphics engine to make it look pretty awesome and came up with Inquisition and that to me shows they know what they're doing.

[Natureguy85]

Same here in fact I personally liked 2 more than Origins as I found it easier to get to grips with. I do like Origins as I like all of the DA's but I just generally warm to games I feel I tend to get to grips with quicker but that's just me I've only recently bought the DA2 DLC's so haven't had a chance to play them yet. I'm looking forward to it though.
 

 

The DLCs are better than the rest of the game.

[sjsharp2011]

The DLCs are better than the rest of the game.

yeah they do look interesting as I have seen some vids of them although I never assume anything 100% UNTIL I've tried it for myself.

[springacres]

If you think the elf and dwarf redesigns are off putting, wait till you see the Quinari.

Got close enough to see the Qunari guard near the Lowtown docks finally and... *shudders*  He makes ogres look good.

[Teligth]

According to David Gaider,there was originally supposed to be a reason for why Apostate Hawke was not thrown into the Circle by the Knight Commander at any time - it had something to do with the Fade but he didn't elaborate. But the game was rushed so that bit got axed. In short, it does not make any sense at all. This is the same city Hawke's father had to flee after casting a single spell in the middle of a fight on the docks while disguised as a mercenary. That is why I never play as a mage Hawke - well, that and not wanting to put up with Carver.

You don't have to have Carver, you can go with Bethany.

[Teligth]

Got close enough to see the Qunari guard near the Lowtown docks finally and... *shudders*  He makes ogres look good.

It's just such a stark difference from how Sten was represented. Also I miss how reverent Sten is. I like Iron Bull and all, but he's nothing like Sten.  

[Natureguy85]

You don't have to have Carver, you can go with Bethany.

Not as a mage.

[DanteYoda]

For me the story seemed tacked on and never really made a lot of sense to the larger world.

 

The reused assets all through the game seems unbelievably lazy and ugly, the whole game is in kirkwall and feels closed in and the hero just seemed insignificant compared to DA:O

 

The only saving grace for me was some of the companions and the combat systems was top notch on PC.

[springacres]

For me the story seemed tacked on and never really made a lot of sense to the larger world.

 

The reused assets all through the game seems unbelievably lazy and ugly, the whole game is in kirkwall and feels closed in and the hero just seemed insignificant compared to DA:O

 

The only saving grace for me was some of the companions and the combat systems was top notch on PC.

I get the impression that it might make more sense after Inquisition, but I sort of prefer my games to feel cohesive in and of themselves.  DA2 feels very cobbled together to me, like it would actually have been better as a series of expansions to DAO than as its own game.  And the lack of cohesiveness makes it feel very much less story-driven than Origins was, even though the choices you make are supposed to be of somewhat similar magnitude.

 

Oh, and the NPCs whose appearances changed significantly between Origins/Awakening and DA2 don't help at all.  *coughFlemethcoughZevrancoughMerrill*  I get that time has passed (for Zev particularly), but age alone shouldn't account for THAT big of a change in appearances.

[Sifr]

Carver doesn't work because we never get to see him being 2nd fiddle to Hawke. We are just given that impression or that he at least feels it, so he comes off as whiny. If they made Act 1 being that first year with the Mercenaries or Smugglers (also making that choice actually matter), they could have shown Hawke rising but Carver being looked down on or given crappy assignments. Then his resentment would actually make sense.

 

I've probably said this elsewhere before, but I reckon that Carver's resentment issues are likely down to a combination of factors.

 

Along with his mother, Carver grew up as a mundane in a house of mages, one of whom is his own fraternal twin. His father having to spend more time with his sibling(s) teaching them how to control their magic would have probably caused him to feel left out, despite it being clear that Malcolm loved his children equally. I think more than anything else, this is probably what causes his dislike of magic, which is really just camouflage for the bigger issue which is Carver having an major inferiority complex.

 

His inferiority complex also manifests in how he resents his older sibling, who was entrusted with more responsibilities from their parents growing up, mostly because they were several years older and this was expected of them. When Malcolm died, three years before DA2, it was only natural that Hawke would be called upon to step into the role of head of household and lead breadwinner. Now picture Carver, who's just entered his teens, having to deal with both the loss of his father and now seeing his sibling (who greatly takes after their father according to Legacy), step in to effectively "replace" him. It's no surprise then that Carver might have coped with his grief by taking it out on Hawke?

 

I think the problem between the prologue and Act 1 is that while Hawke took to Kirkwall like a fish to water, Carver never really seized the chance to make a name for himself. Those times he did try to strike out on his own (like trying to join the Guards) were rebuffed, because his bad attitude, chip on his shoulder and no reason to join other than to prove himself, weren't likely to win him any friends or prospective employers. As Aveline says, he doesn't like following orders and that makes him dangerous and a liability in life and death situations.

 

Finally, we never see many signs that Carver made that many friends in Kirkwall, with only a few back in Lothering being mentioned. Most of his companion banter seems to imply that he feels like a spare wheel in the group, that most of the gang are Hawke's friends and not his, with him just being Hawke's little brother who's tagging along for the ride.

 

Carver is a jerk in Act One, but I think that the character was well-written, since we have a lot of clues to why he acts the way he does?

[Tremere]

According to David Gaider,there was originally supposed to be a reason for why Apostate Hawke was not thrown into the Circle by the Knight Commander at any time - it had something to do with the Fade but he didn't elaborate. But the game was rushed so that bit got axed. In short, it does not make any sense at all. This is the same city Hawke's father had to flee after casting a single spell in the middle of a fight on the docks while disguised as a mercenary. That is why I never play as a mage Hawke - well, that and not wanting to put up with Carver.

...and you'd be right to think that such a reason would be important enough to be explained (in-game). With me, this produced no small measure of Why/How-TF does no one notice (nor make mention of) this character's magical ability"? That is until we meet Knight-Commander Meredith in Act 2, who seems perfectly content to let you go about your business (for now), and even defers to your judgment. "Huh... What?"   

[fkirenicus]

I still prefer Origins, but I've gotta say that the DLCs Legacy and Mark of the Assassin have greatly improved my DA2 experience. To such an extent I actually want to play DA2 again - maybe more than once, too.  :-)

[Sunbrow]

A playstation game that wants to be up to PC standards (It is blaring) and fails. Been months now and they still just talking about programmable keys/mouse. But in all fairness I do just hit one button in all but boss fights (why complicate it). This Rift's MMO clone is a button mashing red bull induced Call of Duty reject...with cool movies.  Butchered skill trees, character class choices, and companion control. Built up the Mage/Templar war nicely thru narration and adventure to culminate in to what?....bring back a dead enemy and glowing a green hand...WTF? The mass effect 3 syndrome strikes again...nice build up to only come to a screeching halt, with an over thought ending ( K you did try and fix MA3 so I give you hug...still wuv you). Character graphics are just sad for modern release from Bioware, but hey it had to work in a playstation (explains alot). Scenery nice except when it refuses to fade and blocks combat...omg who playtested this. Music is stirring in cutscenes..not sure if its working right in normal play. So I built up the inquisition/skyhold for what (so this is optional like harvesting right fanboys?)...makes me want to opt out of the whole game...click..click..click..good thing I have a naga mouse...or my f key...won't move to harvestables/loot either, gotta be right on top of it.  Bugs galore, the whole thing was rushed for release or they just could careless about professionalism and the reputation they just defecated all over (Bioware).  Really where you shine is your toon porn...thinking maybe a new line work in this field.  For this game you could have cut it in half and given me a few cool options in Origin story...sad

 

Well back to a game that you can be proud of that I playtested for free (what a novel idea) SWTOR. Let you guys get back to your red bull and playstations. 

 

I posted here because I trying to the message out there that they doubled down on everything they did wrong on DA2 (playstation game).

[Get Magna Carter]

Different reasons for different people 

For me, the main problem is the adventure RPG genre where player controls a powerful (at the end) group of warriors, mages, etc only really works when they are on an epic quest to save the country/world/etc from a powerful threat (or something similar)

Any game of this genre NEEDS a plot similar to like that.  too big a departure results in an inferior game.

Dragon Age II felt like it was about a powerful group of warriors, mages, etc going to the tavern and running errands for people....

 

One problem with this is the poor motivation.  Why these people are doing this is not clear.  Hawke going on the deep-roads expedition to get money feels like "railroading", especiaaly as Hawke has to find other means to get money to go on the expedition at all.

 

The time-jumps were a problem for me.  Not much changed during the breaks and all the storylines would implausible go on hold for 3 years and then suddenly all start up again at about the same time.  the time jump working for smugglers and mercenaries felt an awkward break.

 

And the final decision ended up a choice between "justice" (i.e. don't punish people for something they had nothing to do with) and "mob rule" (i.e. forget doing the right thing, just prevent the crowds from rioting).

Justice is definitely a good thing, Mob rule is considered a very bad form of governance.  If you choose justice, Hawke is ran out of the city, if you choose mob rule, Hawke becomes the ruler of the city (though not for long - presumable because it's such a bad form of governance.

It feels like the player is punished for making a good choice and rewarded for making a bad choice. 

And the game was promoted as "Rise to power" - it was never defined whether "Champion of Kirkwall" had any power associated with it.  And Hawke doesn't get to be ruler if Justice is chosen at the end - so no power.  

[Natureguy85]

I've probably said this elsewhere before, but I reckon that Carver's resentment issues are likely down to a combination of factors.

 

Along with his mother, Carver grew up as a mundane in a house of mages, one of whom is his own fraternal twin. His father having to spend more time with his sibling(s) teaching them how to control their magic would have probably caused him to feel left out, despite it being clear that Malcolm loved his children equally. I think more than anything else, this is probably what causes his dislike of magic, which is really just camouflage for the bigger issue which is Carver having an major inferiority complex.

 

His inferiority complex also manifests in how he resents his older sibling, who was entrusted with more responsibilities from their parents growing up, mostly because they were several years older and this was expected of them. When Malcolm died, three years before DA2, it was only natural that Hawke would be called upon to step into the role of head of household and lead breadwinner. Now picture Carver, who's just entered his teens, having to deal with both the loss of his father and now seeing his sibling (who greatly takes after their father according to Legacy), step in to effectively "replace" him. It's no surprise then that Carver might have coped with his grief by taking it out on Hawke?

 

I think the problem between the prologue and Act 1 is that while Hawke took to Kirkwall like a fish to water, Carver never really seized the chance to make a name for himself. Those times he did try to strike out on his own (like trying to join the Guards) were rebuffed, because his bad attitude, chip on his shoulder and no reason to join other than to prove himself, weren't likely to win him any friends or prospective employers. As Aveline says, he doesn't like following orders and that makes him dangerous and a liability in life and death situations.

 

Finally, we never see many signs that Carver made that many friends in Kirkwall, with only a few back in Lothering being mentioned. Most of his companion banter seems to imply that he feels like a spare wheel in the group, that most of the gang are Hawke's friends and not his, with him just being Hawke's little brother who's tagging along for the ride.

 

Carver is a jerk in Act One, but I think that the character was well-written, since we have a lot of clues to why he acts the way he does?

 

Yes, and that's all correct. However, we are told all of those things that happen off screen. Had the first year been playable, we could have been shown them. This would make it more real to us and we'd see that it was actually happening, not just all in his head.