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[Anduin The Grey]

RangerSG wrote...

RydeCrash wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

Pretty much as the title says - when did the Protheans find out about the Reapers? Where in the game is it stated that they did?

I ask because the ME-wiki page on the Protheans (here) says that they knew the Reapers were coming before they arrived. Of course, the wiki is  fan-made, so that could be a mistake. But if the Protheans did know that the Reapers were coming, then it damages other aspects of the plot. The whole point of the Reaper ambush is that they sweep through the Citadel Relay with the element of surprise.


Suppose the Protheans knew that an advanced ancient race was planning to return and wipe them out. Surely someone would start viewing the advanced ancient Relays and Citadel with suspicion. How did they fall for the Reaper Citadel trap if they had even more warning than us?

Javik stats in ME3 (Briefly unfortunately) That Illos was the home world of the Inusannon, and with their technology the Protheans where uplifted by it. The Inusannon being the dominate race 50,000 before the Protheans. Granted the small fragment of details Bioware gives us drives us to “Assume” a fair bit with our own logic.
 
(IMO) The Inusannon data and technology would take time to decipher and implement. I derived that the Protheans where better equipped to understand the Inusannon data enabling them to implement it faster into their culture.
 
From game information the Protheans where at war with the Reapers for roughly a 100 years, comparing the speed that the Reapers drive through our galaxy it was not going to take anywhere near that time to harvest the Council Races.
 
My answer to the OP, the Protheans where aware of the Reapers 3-5 generations before their arrival. This is supported by the fact the Protheans where at war for 100 years with the Reapers. The only way a culture could maintain that war time length is by knowing well in advance it’s on the way. Also the “Join the Empire, or Die” didn’t hurt their cause as well.
 
Ryde…

Umm no. The Protheans were not uplifted by the Inusannon. "Uplifted" in the ME Universe is a specific term for "Given Interstellar Spaceflight Technology" (Ie, Krogan, Protheans and their subjects). The Protheans FOUND Ilos on their own. Certainly they made use of what they learned there. But it was not the means by which they became a space-faring people. Or Ilos would've been their homeworld, and no amount of efforts clearing the Citadel archives would've kept the Reapers from finding it. 

I doubt the Protheans were aware of the "Reapers" at all. In fact Javik hints at this himself when he says, "Then the Reapers came, and we found out machines had surpassed us long ago."

They were aware of the inherent risk of synthetic life. They were aware SOMETHING caused extinction events. But they did not know. Could not know, that the Reapers remained a real threat. For all they knew, whatever caused the extinctions was itself destroyed. At most, they had broad inferences of the cycle.

This, also, the Protheans held off the Reapers for 300 years The reason the Protheans had a join or die approach was because of the Metacon War, a war with AI's that as the Prothean's were just turning the tide the Reapers arrived. Javik does not mention how long the Metacon War had been going on before the unexpected arrival of the Reapers.

[CrutchCricket]

BeastSaver wrote...

The Citadel and the relays were built to facilitate the rapid advancement of the species that found them. If they had not been available, advancement would be very uneven. In this particular cycle, the sentient species are: Human, Asari, Turian, Salarian, Volus, Elcor, Hanar, Drell, Rachni (if you let them live), Krogan, Vorcha, Raloi, and Yahg. That's 13 species that were left alone. Of all these species some were slower than others, some were uplifted before they were ready. Virtually all of them took advantage of the Citadel and the relays as well as data left by the Protheans. Chorban's message said ABOUT 50,000 years, not EXACTLY 50,000 years.

Facilitating rapid advancement has nothing to do with it. If speed was their goal I'm sure they could they could do it faster than 50,000 years by setting up a slave race to basically do what the Protheans were starting to do with the asari, or straight up uplifting like the salarians. But notice how the more you move down that slope the more the Reapers become the instigators of the problem, as opposed to its solution (even more than they are already)?

The Citadel trap is based on herding species down a predictable technological path. One that the Reapers have all the counters for.

I'm willing to take Chorban's figure as a rough average. That does not exclude outliers that lasted much longer or much shorter and it does not rule out the Reapers responding appropriately to said outliers.

You wanted in-game, I gave you in-game, and you still discount it. If you want to keep debating this, knock yourself out.

I'm not discounting anything. This is how a debate works. State your position, present evidence. The evidence is "attacked" by the opposing side to see if it holds and if it supports the precise points of the position.

In this case the evidence holds. But it does not support your position that all cycles must last around 50,000 years.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 24 février 2014 - 01:39 .

[kazumasoju]

   Well I don't have Javik on my team but I think you can gather just how hard it may be to get a galaxy to believe you after playing the trilogy. The two big things that stood in their way were, as far as my knowledge goes ~ there is always a splinter group among the fighting races ( Cerberus in our case ) that turns against itself and it is also stated that the Protheans did not get enough resources to finish the Crucible ( which they would most likely finish if there wasn't a splinter group ). This was stated by the Prothean Vi on Thessia. The problem was never the act of surpise or lack of knowledge; it was uniting the galaxy to stand together ~ and this is where past cycles failed

[Astrogenesis]

If I'm not mistaken, the Prothean AI Vigil on Ilos, stated that they did not know of the Reapers existence.

 

Didn't he say 'that by the time they knew of the Reapers existence, they had already taken the Citadel and were advancing throughout the galaxy'.

[kazumasoju]

If I'm not mistaken, the Prothean AI Vigil on Ilos, stated that they did not know of the Reapers existence.

 

Didn't he say 'that by the time they knew of the Reapers existence, they had already taken the Citadel and were advancing throughout the galaxy'.

 

Hmm very true, I actually started Mass Effect with the second game so I did not know this ~ though I just watched a vid here

 

So to answer the original question ~ The protheans never knew the reapers were coming. It is however evident that the protheans took mesures to aid future cycles to take out the Reapers . . .

 

Also, after reading the link you posted ~

 

" The Protheans' belief that they could hold their own against machine intelligence was shattered with the arrival of the Reapers in approximately 48,000 BCE, who were far more advanced than the machines the Protheans had been battling. They were caught completely off-guard by the scale and rapidity of the assault "

 

The wiki doesn't say that the Protheans knew the reapers were coming ~ It is implying that the Protheans were confident in their ability against a " synthetic " race after winning the Metacon war. Maybe that was where you miss read it? Hope this helps

[The Don's Hound]

Didn't they mention that the Crucible wasn't their design? ( haven't played ME in ages so I barely remember) If they got a hold of that, surely they got some kind of warnings. 

[kazumasoju]

Didn't they mention that the Crucible wasn't their design? ( haven't played ME in ages so I barely remember) If they got a hold of that, surely they got some kind of warnings. 

 

I remember that though you have to remember that it took cernturies for the Reapers to fully wipe out the Prothean empire. They didn't necessarily find it before the Reaper invasion began

[CronoDragoon]

The wiki doesn't say that the Protheans knew the reapers were coming ~ It is implying that the Protheans were confident in their ability against a " synthetic " race after winning the Metacon war. Maybe that was where you miss read it? Hope this helps

 

The wiki's been edited since this thread started, since no one could find any evidence that the Protheans knew about the Reapers, and opposing evidence has been presented.

[k_lem]

Like it was stated before, I'm sure the Protheans were able to make assumptions based on the previous civilization extinctions. However, as for the Protheans knowing that the Reapers were going to attack through the Citadel, I find it hard for them to have been able to know that the Protheans were going to use the Citadel as a relay from dark space. As we learn in the final mission to Ilos through the first Mass Effect, Virgil explains to Shephard how the Citadel was a relay for the Reapers and because of this their government was easily destroyed first, leaving the Protheans extremely vulnerable and confused in fighting the Reapers. I would assume the Protheans (when discovering the Citadel) believed it to be built by a previous civilization just as the other species in Shephard's generation believed the Protheans had created it. All this is just from my point of view though, i could be completely wrong lol

[Randy1012]

I actually think it likely humanity would've missed the cycle. I've always thought Sovereign ought to have signaled sometime around the end of the Krogan Rebellions. You had four space-faring civilizations controlling pretty much all the then-active relay network (Asari (w/ client Elcor), Turian (w/ client Volus), Salarian (with uplifted Krogan), Quarian were colonizing, if not a major Council race). The major organic threats had been neutralized (Rachni & Krogan). What's stopping the Reapers from seeing that as the time to harvest?

But even if it's the late 21st century, we'd still be confined to our system, unaware of the relay network, non-FTL. Even the Council Races would be unknown to us. So yeah, I'd think we *ought* to have missed this cycle and been warring with the Yahg for Apex race of the subsequent cycle.

If Sovereign had succeeded in beginning the harvest during the Rachni Wars (which seems to be the implication), I'm not sure that humans would have been spared. Certainly, at that time (circa 1-300 CE) Earth was a rather primitive planet, but in ME2 we discover a planet called Aphras which was home to a species that possessed Bronze Age level technology. Yet the planet was destroyed by orbital bombardments directed specifically at habitation centers. The implication there seems to be that the Reapers destroyed the people of Aphras during a harvest so that they wouldn't be left with an entire cycle in which to develop dangerous synthetics.

[JamesFaith]

Actually there was dialog claiming this but it was fragment of Javik dialog in original ME3, which wasn't used in From ashes.

 

I know it because I was part of translated team of ME3 and I personally translated this part. When many similar fragments appeared in some form later in From ashes, this one and some other details were left out. Author of argued article in Wiki obviously saw datamined dialog too.

[BioWareM0d13]

Actually there was dialog claiming this but it was fragment of Javik dialog in original ME3, which wasn't used in From ashes.

 

I know it because I was part of translated team of ME3 and I personally translated this part. When many similar fragments appeared in some form later in From ashes, this one and some other details were left out. Author of argued article in Wiki obviously saw datamined dialog too.

 

It may have ultimately been dropped because it conflicted with established lore. Another possible example of that is the recorded dialogue with Anderson where he tells Shepard his biggest regret was not having had a family. That dialogue was recorded but was cut from the game, possibly because someone remembered after the fact that the books and LotSB established Anderson as having an ex-wife and a son.

[Invisible Man]

@randy1012

 

didn't that tidbit of info also state that the planet was bombarded with mass accelerator fire. to me that might suggest it wasn't the reapers, as I don't think a reaper's ship-mounted weapons can be classified as a mass accelerator weapon, technically speaking. isn't a reaper's cannon a thermal weapon, strictly speaking? leaves different impact patterns etc. though, it could also be a mistake in the lore, or it might be just in my head.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

If Sovereign had succeeded in beginning the harvest during the Rachni Wars (which seems to be the implication), I'm not sure that humans would have been spared.

 

Point here, Leviathan implies, if not outright states, that the Rachni where being used by the Leviathans to prepare for the Reapers. I guess the intention back in ME1 was that the Rachni WERE indoctrinated into starting the Rachni Wars but by the time of the Leviathan DLC that no longer seems to be the case. Bit of a retcon maybe but there it is.

[Randy1012]

Thanks for the info. I haven't actually played Leviathan yet.

[JamesFaith]

It may have ultimately been dropped because it conflicted with established lore. Another possible example of that is the recorded dialogue with Anderson where he tells Shepard his biggest regret was not having had a family. That dialogue was recorded but was cut from the game, possibly because someone remembered after the fact that the books and LotSB established Anderson as having an ex-wife and a son.

 

Just to be more clear, Javik didn't said Reapers, he said that they didn't know identity of this threat, they just discover pattern in regular extinction of civilizations.

 

So it wasn't retcon. 

[Baalzie]

If you have LotSB DLC, then you see yahg on sur'kesh where the brutes are supposed to be. So they did take the yahg and turn them into brutes. The only reason this has not been acknowledged is for one, not playing LotSB means you don't see Yahgs. So for those who don't know what a yahg is, it is confusing. You only know what a yahg is if you play LotSB. Also, they needed to do something with the krogan because they didn't. But brutes are yahgs. They fill the slot perfected. They move like yahgs. Yahgs are substituted where brutes are not if you have the DLC. And krogans aren't reaperized but neither are salarians, though saliarians wouldn't be very good reapers as they are frail. Krogans however would be excellent. Asari aren't reaperized either, which is weird except if you realize that Asari worlds were not attacked until later. But they did want the ardat-yakshi, which is kind of weird because it's not really a well known thing but reapers managed to focus on them. Kind of a plot weak point there and given how many banshees you do encounter, either that monastary was massive and most of the banshees were taken or it's just bad writing with no logic to it.

Uhm no? What utter claptrap is that? There is not a single "reaperised" Yagh in the entire game series. On Sur'Kesh it was CERBERUS that attacked, and the only Yagh there was the ones the SALARIANS themselves were experimenting on. NOT the reapers, apart from it being in ME3, whereas LotSB is a ME2 dlc.. *sigh* How can folks play this game and get such weird ideas? The Yagh is in ME3 no matter if you own a previous game at ALL. The events in LotSB is canon and happen if you have the game or not. Same as Arrival. You just get their canon versions of events.

Unbelievable...
/facepalm
Don't you read/listen to what folks say in the game? 
And you don't see Sur'Khesh in LotSB at all, the entire DLC is played out on Illium and on the Brokers' ship. Maybe drink less before playing?