123 réponses à ce sujet

[Invisible Man]

I think most of my shepards would go with destroy in this case. because the other options just didn't seem right. the least of 3 evils and all.

[von uber]

Destroy, always destroy.
Needs of the many over the few.
Anything else is just plain daft.

And I thought there was doubt the toasters were toast? We know joker loses thesexbot, but what is there that confirms the geth are affected by the big red wave of bollocks how do we end this?

[RangerSG]

von uber wrote...

Destroy, always destroy.
Needs of the many over the few.
Anything else is just plain daft.

And I thought there was doubt the toasters were toast? We know joker loses thesexbot, but what is there that confirms the geth are affected by the big red wave of bollocks how do we end this?

There is doubt the toasters get fried. At least in High EMS destroy. All you have is the Catabrat's word. And it says Shepard is toast too. But as we know "Breathe scene," the brat's a liar. 

No doubt EDI dies. She's too heavily Reaper-based not to. But the Geth are still fundamentally what the Quarians made them. The ending provides no evidence as to the actual fate of te Geth. And there's no reason to take the brat at its word. Ever.

And I agree. ALWAYS destroy, unless I'm playing a Shepard who really thought TIMmy had the right of it. Then I'd go control, even though I think that's an invitation to galactic tyranny. 

[RangerSG]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

TheOneTrueBioticGod wrote...

What I've envoked is that Shepard has absolutely no right to go aginst what the rest of the Galaxy has trusted him to do, and especially no right to take control of the reapers or forcibly alter their entire genetic structure.

And why not, because you happen to agree with them?

If the geth are still alive by that point in the game, you've already defied how everyone who isn't EDI or geth wanted Rannoch to end (and you placed both of them in the "Synthesis" list, so clearly their opinion doesn't matter to you anyway).

That's not a problem for me, though, because I didn't care what they wanted then and don't care now.

And why would the Volus die? Their suits wouldn't malfunction; no reaper tech and no cybernetics in those, unless you can prove otherwise. 

Envirosuits are replete with cybernetics.

1) You're assuming the Catabrat is telling the truth. The Breathe scene puts the lie to that. Starbrat speaks for its own agenda, nothing else. It is not a prophet, it has not seen the Crucible fired. It has no more certainty as to the events following than you do. It only knows what it SHOULD do, and which options it prefers.

2) Cybernetic implants are not synthetic life. Virtually everyone in the MEU has cybernetics of some sort. All your soldiers have optical and muscle implants. All the engineers and sentinels are walking tech interfaces. Biotics need amps to function, etc. None of that made any of them less organic. And none of those are Reaper-based. So in High EMS, they're untouched.

3) The distinction in High EMS is Reapertech ™. Low EMS is more disastrous, yes. But if that's your ending, you obviously are playing for galactic doom. So that's not the goal of destroy. The only confirmed non-Reaper killed in High EMS destroy is EDI. And she even admits non-functionality is preferable to allowing the Reapers to continue. 

[themikefest]

I already posted on the first page, but this is why I choose destroy

Control--everyone living in fear wondering when/if reapers will fire their laser and repears still alive--that sucks
Synthesis--forcing something never turns out well and reapers still alive--that sucks
Refuse--reapers continue the cycle--that really sucks
Destroy--reapers dead and I can have a future without having the threat of the reapers--excellent

[Reorte]

RangerSG wrote...

No doubt EDI dies. She's too heavily Reaper-based not to. But the Geth are still fundamentally what the Quarians made them. The ending provides no evidence as to the actual fate of te Geth. And there's no reason to take the brat at its word. Ever.

There's enough to imply that the geth die. It doesn't make sense but unfortunately certain people in BW seem to be happy with putting in whatever they want to move the story in whatever direction they want, and if that simply doesn't make any sense then tough luck sense (it's an appallingly bad attitude for a writer to have).

[wright1978]

I find the notion of the sacrifice of the geth/edi rather sickening but it wouldn't stop me choosing destroy from an abstract thematic level. It's all rather irrelevant as with the catalyst as their gatekeeper all choices are untrustworthy and impossible to choose.

[von uber]

The problem is that they had (or at least imply) to throw the geth in to the death ray (EDi is more understandable as she is reaper tech) because if it was only her loss it would be a no brainer to choose destroy.
It's the same reason we probably only get the crappy breath scene as opposed to the Normandy coming back to the rescue and pulling Shep out the wreckage; if that was part of the destroy ending then it would be even worse for the other two.
Edited for shpellink.

Modifié par von uber, 21 février 2014 - 02:21 .

[Ironhandjustice]

wright1978 wrote...

I find the notion of the sacrifice of the geth/edi rather sickening but it wouldn't stop me choosing destroy from an abstract thematic level. It's all rather irrelevant as with the catalyst as their gatekeeper all choices are untrustworthy and impossible to choose.

I will resume in one statement:

"Beyond the lack of sense, there is one thing gamers do not forgive: Not having even a single chance to win. We play, we pay, and we want at least a remote chance to achieve victory"

[RZIBARA]

Id still choose destroy, as usual

[Br3admax]

Considering I picked Destroy even when the geth and EDI die, I'd probably still pick it if they didn't.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Destroy, Reapers need to go.

[Anubis722]

I still pick destroy regardless if EDI and Geth lives or not

[MassivelyEffective0730]

starlitegirlx wrote...

the geth and edi did not die in destroy. What was you ending choice and would it change if they were spared? And why?

Based on this criteria alone, it's irrelevant to me.

They're survival isn't paramount. I'm not trying to save everyone. I'm trying to kill Reapers.

I'm more concerned about the long-term ramifications of the loss of the relays than I am to the loss of the Geth or EDI.

If it took losing everything I loved (except Miranda) to beat the Reapers, then I'd do it in an instant with no guilt. 

I gotta do what I gotta do.

[Bfler]

Nothing else than Destroy. The souls of all their victims deserve to rest in peace.

[fchopin]

I picked destroy but it had nothing to do with the geth, i would still pick destroy even if everything was destroyed in our galaxy as long as whoever came next was free to do what they wanted and were not slaves.

[AlanC9]

von uber wrote...

The problem is that they had (or at least imply) to throw the geth in to the death ray (EDi is more understandable as she is reaper tech) because if it was only her loss it would be a no brainer to choose destroy.
It's the same reason we probably only get the crappy breath scene as opposed to the Normandy coming back to the rescue and pulling Shep out the wreckage; if that was part of the destroy ending then it would be even worse for the other two.

Probably true, judging from the leaked early plot outline. Shepard only living in high-EMS Destroy was always the plan, but the presentation wasn't really discussed.

[AlanC9]

Ironhandjustice wrote...
I will resume in one statement:

"Beyond the lack of sense, there is one thing gamers do not forgive: Not having even a single chance to win. We play, we pay, and we want at least a remote chance to achieve victory"

Huh? Only Refuse is a loss.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

starlitegirlx wrote...

WTH? Of course they aren't present. IT'S A BLOODY CLOSE UP! We don't see Shepard's head either, but you don't seem to assume Shepard's head was smashed or even decapitated. And before you say it couldn't have been because 'breath' - actually it can. If a head has been decapitated from a body, the body can still do what looks like taking a breath because the organs are releasing air from inside the lungs and partly due to muscle relaxation. They also urinate.

Can't be. Game files and script clearly said that Shepard survives High EMS Destroy, so his head must be intact.

Though there is some truth to what you say. I think this calls for a compromise, of sorts.

So Shepard is "nearly" headless. And clearly limbless. Nearly-headless Nugget. There we go, it even has a ring to it!!

Don't make wildly ignorant assumptions. Maybe educate yourself a little too. Close ups. Not really that much of a confusing thing.

Well, everyone on this forum insists that anything you can't clearly hear or see in game is "just headcanon."

So that means that Shepard has no arms or legs post-Destroy since you can't clearly see them either.

Sorry. Not my rules. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

RangerSG wrote...

There is doubt the toasters get fried. At least in High EMS destroy. All you have is the Catabrat's word. And it says Shepard is toast too. But as we know "Breathe scene," the brat's a liar. 

No doubt EDI dies. She's too heavily Reaper-based not to. But the Geth are still fundamentally what the Quarians made them. The ending provides no evidence as to the actual fate of te Geth. And there's no reason to take the brat at its word. Ever.

And I agree. ALWAYS destroy, unless I'm playing a Shepard who really thought TIMmy had the right of it. Then I'd go control, even though I think that's an invitation to galactic tyranny. 

In the EC Shepard's death from Destroy is actually just speculated, the Kid simply says that even Shepard is partly Synthetic, not that he will certainly die or not.

Also, as far as the Catalyst describes the Destroy beam it works by targetting Synthetics, "But be warned. The Crucible will not discriminate. All Synthetics will be targetted." It's never mentioned that it targets Reapers and Reaper technology specifically, merely that they will be destroyed along with varying degrees of collateral damage. Given that the Geth are not present in the Destroy epilogue scenes it's safe to say they were.

And if we question the Catalyst about the effects of Destroy the entire ending falls apart, as there is no reason to believe that the whole thing is not a sham. Afterall, Destroy activates by shooting a fuel line, what machine ever in the history of the universe has ever been activated like that?

[FlyingSquirrel]

Beyond the Geth and EDI, the Leviathan backstory and the Catalyst end up painting a picture of the Reapers as not really responsible for their own actions - they seem to be indoctrinated or at least propagandized to the point that they can't consider the possibility that the Catalyst is wrong. So you're wiping out what amounts to a race of sentient weapons that (a) did not choose to be weapons in the first place and ( have no control over whether or not they are "fired."

I know I've argued this before, but in my mind, the Leviathans are the true villains of Mass Effect. The Catalyst is a a largely amoral and badly programmed AI - its premises are completely wrong, IMO, but it isn't sadistic or power-hungry. It was given a problem to solve and is implementing the solution it believes to be most logical. The Reapers are just its tools. The Leviathans, on the other hand, embarked on a course of abuse and exploitation of other species through nothing but their own arrogance and selfishness. Either Control or Synthesis should include at least a few Reapers sent to keep a very close eye on 2181 Despoina.

[The Elite Elite]

Doesn't change a thing for me. I always pick Destroy. If some of our machinery gets damaged/destroyed in the process of ending the Reapers, that's a tiny price to pay for saving all life in the galaxy.

[AlanC9]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
Also, as far as the Catalyst describes the Destroy beam it works by targetting Synthetics, "But be warned. The Crucible will not discriminate. All Synthetics will be targetted." It's never mentioned that it targets Reapers and Reaper technology specifically, merely that they will be destroyed along with varying degrees of collateral damage. Given that the Geth are not present in the Destroy epilogue scenes it's safe to say they were.

The EC does seem to have introduced an issue here, though. Does the Catalyst's "including the geth" line ever play now? It was originally optional since, of course, they might have been destroyed at Rannoch. I don't know if there's anything actually going on there except Bio botching the conditional in the EC, though . The geth certainly don't appear in EC slides under Destroy, as you say.

[AlanC9]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Either Control or Synthesis should include at least a few Reapers sent to keep a very close eye on 2181 Despoina.

Probably want to revert to the pre-Harbinger purely mechanical version, just in case.

[ImaginaryMatter]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Beyond the Geth and EDI, the Leviathan backstory and the Catalyst end up painting a picture of the Reapers as not really responsible for their own actions - they seem to be indoctrinated or at least propagandized to the point that they can't consider the possibility that the Catalyst is wrong. So you're wiping out what amounts to a race of sentient weapons that (a) did not choose to be weapons in the first place and ( have no control over whether or not they are "fired."

I don't think the Reapers contain the individuals the harvested individuals, just their DNA and history, their "essense". This is a bit of meta gaming but originally in ME2 (the files are still in the game) the Collectors were doing "destructive analyzing" to upload the human minds into the purely synthetic Reaper shell. The Feros arch also shows something similar with the Thorian and the Cipher. What the Reapers appear to be to me are basically flying mausoleums containing this Organic data and the individual Reapers that talk and operate the ship are some form of advanced VI created by the Catalyst to drive the whole thing. Perhaps the Reaper VI, like the advanced Vigil and Vendetta, are based off the "essense" of an absorbed race.

Either way I don't think there is an exact answer, even my little theory is swiss cheesy. I don't think there is a definite answer to what they are. Every game has, ironically, steeped the Reapers deeper and deeper into some weird sort of mysticism that doesn't adhere to any internal logic of the Mass Effect universe.