33 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

What would you think about that?

The details, the concepts, the conditions to accept or deny it, etc.

Just what do you think about that.

Up til ME3, they were the best ships in the galaxy.


Something like this?

Modifié par SwobyJ, 22 février 2014 - 12:06 .

[cap and gown]

And here I thought I was going to get to see a picture of Slim Pickens riding a Reaper as it plummeted towards Vancouver.

[Jukaga]

Quick someone mod the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim so you ride a Reaper instead of a dragon! That was literally the first thing that popped in my head when I saw the thread title.

[AlanC9]

Indoctrination would be a downside, wouldn't it?

[SwobyJ]

AlanC9 wrote...

Indoctrination would be a downside, wouldn't it?

Maybe.

[demersel]

AlanC9 wrote...

Indoctrination would be a downside, wouldn't it?

Nah, it will be fine. Player Character is immune to the indoctrination. 

[demersel]

Phhf.... indoctrination... As if it is a real thing...

[SwobyJ]

Right, that. Immune. Or part of it. Whatever - the indoc isn't a factor here, or its a positive/neutral one for the most part.

[demersel]

It can be a part of game mechanic - complete the quest in limited number of actions/turns/relay jumps or you get indoctrinated and lose your mind and stop caring about your goal.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Jukaga wrote...

Quick someone mod the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim so you ride a Reaper instead of a dragon! That was literally the first thing that popped in my head when I saw the thread title.

We should have acted, they're already here.
The Prothean beacons told of their return,
Sovereign's defeat was merely a delay...

[DoomsdayDevice]

"Anyone aboard a Reaper is gonna end up indoctrinated."

[SwobyJ]

Cool so we're indoctrinated into it. Point to point like Leviathan content seems to indicate.

So how about that riding of a Reaper??

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

But indoctrination takes quite a while.

[shodiswe]

SwobyJ wrote...

Cool so we're indoctrinated into it. Point to point like Leviathan content seems to indicate.

So how about that riding of a Reaper??

What the Leviathans does to Shepard is similar to what Liara does when she "Embrases eternity" or whatever the phrase was in ME1.

The Leviathans got a mindmeld similar to that of the Asari it would seem. I guess it makes sense that the Asari arn't unique.
The Leviathan mindmeld could be stronger though, possibly, especialy considering their mindset, they certainly arn't gentle with "Lesser" beings. They might be more Ardat Yakshi like in their approach, though they didn't kill Shepard either. It sounds like they think they can enslave others using it though.

I wonder how the Leviathans reproduse, "normal" reproduction or Asari like..... Then commes the twist, the Leviathans originates from Thessia but before the Asari even existed!

Modifié par shodiswe, 22 février 2014 - 09:40 .

[SwobyJ]

(Most) Asari cannot enthrall - only at most manipulate lightly (and that is certainly speculative). Ardat Yakshi *can* do their thing, but its eventual form (mental interface, which most Asari do safely) kills others, making it, and the AY line.. kinda of a genetic dead end unless that problem gets fixed.

Leviathans don't seem to have that dead end, and instead of short times of 'eternity' where the subject is put into a semi-mental realm, the Leviathans seem to have much higher degrees of simulation, even having the ability to take 'memories to give voice to their words'.

Asari don't seem capable of that either - only able to share their own bits of memories and/or glean some memories or open up access to them in others' minds. And even then, only stronger Asari may be so capable of doing that.

I guess for organics, in terms of mental powers and/or organic evolution tiers, I'd rank it this way (from the ones we know).

1. Leviathan
2. Thorian (maybe)
3. Rachni (sort of)
4. Prothian
5. Asari

Doesn't mean Asari aren't powerful; it's just that they aren't of god stature. And you know, that's OK. lol
And where Asari may gain in simulation powers, Prothians may gain in genetic readings of memory. Organics evolve in their own ways, but in the MEU, the commonality seems to be that they gain in mental powers/perceptions one way or another.

~~

Anyway, I'm typing OT.

By Leviathan DLC, I meant the research into indoctrination done by Bryson.

Through that information, plus the information on Sanctuary, we can deduce that Indoctrination is a refinement of a mixture of Leviathan enthrallment/domination and more synthetic rewriting methods.

It takes the 'point to point' nature of Leviathan orbs, but makes the indoctrinated subject's minds, or rather the nanites now inside them, to act as the 'orbs'. The person becomes a walking radiator of Reaper influence.

Obviously, this degrades the organic part of the mind more and more, until the synthetic part just takes over (aka the duel nature of how indoctrinated subjects like Saren worked). This reduces the effectiveness of the subject until they simply become (ultimately) a husk, which at best the Reaper could use as a shock troop or exhibit some degree of direct control over, but they've lost pretty much all autonomy at that point.

Anyway, that's all I was saying; that Leviathan and Reaper mental influences carry a commonality - they go from point to point. One Reaper to specific Objects. And Direct Control only being possible to one Object, not multiples.

Course the exception would be Reaper signal indoc effect on organic minds only (no nanites). For that, it's only a warping of the organic constitution - fine if only very limited exposure is used, but eventually (over days, weeks) highly damaging to the organic mind.

Benezia looks like she was in between the signal and nanite methods. No nanites were involved for her (as far as we know), but she was wrapped up in Saren's own radiating signal, and that gradually took over her own mind as she was forced to mentally block off part of herself until she was needed, while the rest became overwritten by another whole personality, an 'evil Benezia'.

~~~

But I'm talking about when nanites are involved, through whatever means.

So yeah, we get someone Reaper implanted in whatever way, then they're on borrowed time unless a solution is found. The Reaper has as much access to them, at least eventually, as the Leviathans have towards those who spent too much time near an orb and are still sitting around it.

That's what Leviathan likely meant by 'perfecting' it. It no longer requires an orb to sit around. Now, the person themselves is all that's required. Saren didn't need to carry around any stinkin orb. He just.. was. Sovereign held as much control over him as it wanted to, and Saren was carrying implants since ME1 started - Virmire events only let to adding significantly more implants, and all but nearly completely took over Saren's mental processes (as well as biological functions, if Husk Saren was any indication).

Modifié par SwobyJ, 22 février 2014 - 11:14 .

[katamuro]

Considering Reapers are probably not meant to be "ridden" plus anyway its much better to destroy them, no chance of indoctrination, sudden reaper uprising or other uncomfortable consequences.

[SwobyJ]

katamuro wrote...

Considering Reapers are probably not meant to be "ridden" plus anyway its much better to destroy them, no chance of indoctrination, sudden reaper uprising or other uncomfortable consequences.

But they're just sitting there! Heck, Controllers even kept them around, and Synthesizers made peace with them! Vroom!

[Gervaise]

In ME1 Liara's mother was a powerful matriarch yet couldn't resist indoctrination. In ME2 just being in the skeleton of a "dead" Reaper was sufficient to indoctrinate the Cerberus scientists, so really having anything to do with a still operational Reaper would seem a very bad idea.

That said, in Synthesis you have to assume the relationship between the Reapers and the rest of the species has altered somewhat, so presumably you could travel around in them. In the case of Control I would assume they are still acting as a sort of police force under the control of the Shepard AI and the risk of indoctrination would still be there. With Destroy I would hope that whatever the beam did to them put them permanently out of action so no one else could make use of their technology or hitch a lift.

[SwobyJ]

The ME2 Reaper was derelict, not dead. Any references said to it being 'dead' ('even dead gods can dream' etc) were done for convenience of the player, as the power core of the Reaper was always operational.

And you think Shepalyst would indoctrinate others? You have no faith in our guardian? For shame.

Destroy has all their material sitting there. It didn't disappear.

[Gervaise]

The Shepard AI says that he/she is going to run the galaxy the way they want. With even the most benign of Shepard's this will at some point mean imposing their will on others. It may well be that Shepard AI can't actually control that aspect of the Reapers and anyone disagreeing with their point of view will automatically have their consciousness altered to seeing it Shepard's way. In fact Shepard might view that as preferable to "sending in the Reapers" in a more direct fashion. Think of the choice we were faced with regarding the renegade Geth in ME2. It was re-programme or destroy. Isn't that the same as indoctrinate or destroy?

[SwobyJ]

Well if you're going to use the Heretic Geth example..

a)Rewrite the Heretic Geth
-Geth in ME3 have more
-Quarians in ME3 have less (more are killed)
-MORE assets overall when picking Geth (compared to Destroying Heretics I mean), or the MOST assets overall if in Peace
-AKA Geth are more 'valuable' than Quarians, even if you're more emotionally connected to the Quarians/Tali

b)Destroy the Heretic Geth
-Geth in ME3 do not gain more
-Quarians in ME3 do not lose more
-Smarter to pick Quarians in this case, as picking Geth does not give that boost
-Peace option gives less resources than it would have if you just Rewrote the Heretics, but at the same time, you saved more Quarian lives than otherwise
-AKA Geth are not as valuable than they could have been, so you're bolstered in picking only Quarians


So it's a Brain or Heart deal. Stay to those close to you against the logic presented, and in doing so, keep your concept of self - or aspire for more for the greater number of people, despite the possible dangers and loss of self.

Do we know Shepalyst will indoctrinate others?

Is any of that shown or known?

No, we just see the Reapers rebuilding things faster/easier and guarding the galaxy.

Anything else is headcanon *



(*I'm partially kidding here. My whole actual interpretation of everything would be considered headcanon by most here)

Modifié par SwobyJ, 22 février 2014 - 08:46 .

[SwobyJ]

Let's say that, just hypothetically here, Indoctrination was all stopped in a Reaper, and it was entirely safe to board it and utilize its high tech. Just roll with this concept.

What about that? What about riding that Reaper?

At least as of ME3, the Reapers were the fastest, strongest, and most potentially useful ships in the MEU. Even riding a Destroyer would be far beyond at least most ships in the current Cycle.

[Obadiah]

It would be interesting. We never saw a control panel or anything when Saren was traveling in Sovereign, but he was doing that with a bunch of Geth henchmen, so maybe they were plugged in to the Reaper ship somehow. And of course, as we saw in ME2, being inside a Reaper appears to pull you into some sort of collective mind.

If I had to guess, the crew would be mostly resting in pods or something, existing in some sort of collective dreamscape with the Reaper, along with the Reaper intelligence itself. Every so often they would awaken for exercise. The crew's intelligences would be focused on different parts of the Reaper ship doing their duties, probably research and intelligence, since Reaper ships are mostly self sufficient.

I don't think it would be at all similar to being a crew member on the Normandy (the other spaceship in ME with an AI), or on Moya in Farscape.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 février 2014 - 12:33 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

SwobyJ wrote...

The ME2 Reaper was derelict, not dead. Any references said to it being 'dead' ('even dead gods can dream' etc) were done for convenience of the player, as the power core of the Reaper was always operational.

And you think Shepalyst would indoctrinate others? You have no faith in our guardian? For shame.

Destroy has all their material sitting there. It didn't disappear.

I always thought of the Derelict Reaper being brain dead.

[ImaginaryMatter]

SwobyJ wrote...

Let's say that, just hypothetically here, Indoctrination was all stopped in a Reaper, and it was entirely safe to board it and utilize its high tech. Just roll with this concept.

What about that? What about riding that Reaper?

At least as of ME3, the Reapers were the fastest, strongest, and most potentially useful ships in the MEU. Even riding a Destroyer would be far beyond at least most ships in the current Cycle.

I don't think. I forget who said it but I remember someone saying in ME1 that even the inside of the Reaper added to the Indoctrination process.