174 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Not sure how much I could partake in this. I don't consider myself pro anything. I've always argued for the Mages, sure, but that's also been because the games have really been favoring them. Not once have I really said they should be without education or oversight.

Really, it'd just be me being the same as I've always been. There wouldn't be a reversal of argument going on, because there's nothing to reverse.

I consider myself a moderate that fights for ideals only when there are no diplomatic options available.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The
notion of all people deserving equal opportunity is bunk. Tevinter
actually had it right, more or less; mages are fundamentally superior to
nonmages by virtue of their superior capabilities, but must also be
defended due to their greater vulnerabilities. A nation with magic
integrated into its infrastructure must be run solely by mages for the
greater good of all, with the ultimate goal of finding a way to bring
such enlightenment to everyone; turning all people into mages
themselves.;

That doesn't sound like anything beyond what you normally would say Xill.

._. Point of the thread is reversing positions.

You already said a few times you hope the Imperium comes down and enslaves the rest of Thedas again (Never going to happen lol) 

I
tried to type a pro-templar argument, but my fingers started
spontaneously trying to break each other and then one hand tried to
strangle me, so I decided to just remove all possible moral brakes and
considerations of equality for my reverse argument.

My soul dies a little inside when I give in to the templar urges.

Yet You didn't seem to have a problem typing Qunari urges even in a thread that wasn't about reverse arguments.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 23 février 2014 - 12:03 .

[BlueMagitek]

^ You could mention how Dwarf Mabari cavalry is a terrible idea and gorillas are awful creatures.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Not sure how much I could partake in this. I don't consider myself pro anything. I've always argued for the Mages, sure, but that's also been because the games have really been favoring them. Not once have I really said they should be without education or oversight.

Really, it'd just be me being the same as I've always been. There wouldn't be a reversal of argument going on, because there's nothing to reverse.

I consider myself a moderate that fights for ideals only when there are no diplomatic options available.

Wait how game is favoring mages i mean half problems we face in game (usually that are biggest problems) are their fault... games in every steps shows that templars are right about them entirely as less than 10 % of mages had brain to use magic properly without screwing something up and causing just another disaster caused by mages...

As far little mages proven to be trusthworthy most either end as blood mage or walking disaster or both...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Circles are slavery. Even some characters in the game say so. And slavery - in any way, shape or form - is evil.

Thus the circles must go! Burn them to the ground!

And yes, Anders was right. There can be no compromise. Either mages live free or the life is not worth living for them.
If that leads to a war between them and non-mages, so be it.
If there can be no co-existence, then in the fight for survival only one side will be victirious - the mages.

[Hellion Rex]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Yet You didn't seem to have a problem typing Qunari urges even in a thread that wasn't about reverse arguments.

Hush. I don't know what you are talking about.

[Master Warder Z_]

eluvianix wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Yet You didn't seem to have a problem typing Qunari urges even in a thread that wasn't about reverse arguments.

Hush. I don't know what you are talking about.

Seems like some one isn't open to admitting to bias  

[dragonflight288]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Not sure how much I could partake in this. I don't consider myself pro anything. I've always argued for the Mages, sure, but that's also been because the games have really been favoring them. Not once have I really said they should be without education or oversight.

Really, it'd just be me being the same as I've always been. There wouldn't be a reversal of argument going on, because there's nothing to reverse.

I consider myself a moderate that fights for ideals only when there are no diplomatic options available.

Wait how game is favoring mages i mean half problems we face in game (usually that are biggest problems) are their fault... games in every steps shows that templars are right about them entirely as less than 10 % of mages had brain to use magic properly without screwing something up and causing just another disaster caused by mages...

As far little mages proven to be trusthworthy most either end as blood mage or walking disaster or both...

As this is the thread where we argue the points opposite from what we normally do while also trying to be logical, in this thread I'll have to support templars. Kommander, as per the original purpose of this thread, I genuinely would like to hear/read you try to from a logical argument in support of mages.

The fact is that because so many people rise to the banner of either side shows there's reasons to support both. As a mental excersise to expand our perspectives, we'll debate on either side. You defend mages and attack templars, and I'll defend templars and attack mages. 

If you don't want to talk about mages/templars on behalf of the mages, there are a multitude of other issues as well. You can defend blood magic, the elves of the Dales, the nobility of Orzammar, Harrowmont over Bhelen, or whatever. 

[Hellion Rex]

Master Warder Z wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Yet You didn't seem to have a problem typing Qunari urges even in a thread that wasn't about reverse arguments.

Hush. I don't know what you are talking about.

Seems like some one isn't open to admitting to bias  

To what bias would you be referring?

[dragonflight288]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Circles are slavery. Even some characters in the game say so. And slavery - in any way, shape or form - is evil.

Thus the circles must go! Burn them to the ground!

And yes, Anders was right. There can be no compromise. Either mages live free or the life is not worth living for them.
If that leads to a war between them and non-mages, so be it.
If there can be no co-existence, then in the fight for survival only one side will be victirious - the mages.

But then who will defend the common man from the mages now running free? Many libertarians are of the mindset that they are superior to mundanes simply as a matter of course. 

[Master Warder Z_]

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Yet You didn't seem to have a problem typing Qunari urges even in a thread that wasn't about reverse arguments.

Hush. I don't know what you are talking about.

Seems like some one isn't open to admitting to bias  

To what bias would you be referring?

._. The group type in this regard.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The notion of all people deserving equal opportunity is bunk. Tevinter actually had it right, more or less; mages are fundamentally superior to nonmages by virtue of their superior capabilities, but must also be defended due to their greater vulnerabilities. A nation with magic integrated into its infrastructure must be run solely by mages for the greater good of all, with the ultimate goal of finding a way to bring such enlightenment to everyone; turning all people into mages themselves.;

That doesn't sound like anything beyond what you normally would say Xill.

._. Point of the thread is reversing positions.

You already said a few times you hope the Imperium comes down and enslaves the rest of Thedas again (Never going to happen lol) 

I tried to type a pro-templar argument, but my fingers started spontaneously trying to break each other and then one hand tried to strangle me, so I decided to just remove all possible moral brakes and considerations of equality for my reverse argument.

Still doesn't sound different from what you'd normally say.

[Master Warder Z_]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The notion of all people deserving equal opportunity is bunk. Tevinter actually had it right, more or less; mages are fundamentally superior to nonmages by virtue of their superior capabilities, but must also be defended due to their greater vulnerabilities. A nation with magic integrated into its infrastructure must be run solely by mages for the greater good of all, with the ultimate goal of finding a way to bring such enlightenment to everyone; turning all people into mages themselves.;

That doesn't sound like anything beyond what you normally would say Xill.

._. Point of the thread is reversing positions.

You already said a few times you hope the Imperium comes down and enslaves the rest of Thedas again (Never going to happen lol) 

I tried to type a pro-templar argument, but my fingers started spontaneously trying to break each other and then one hand tried to strangle me, so I decided to just remove all possible moral brakes and considerations of equality for my reverse argument.

Still doesn't sound different from what you'd normally say.

Yup.

[Rusty Sandusky]

Dragon Age II is a great game because....errr...it had flashy combat animations?

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

As this is the thread where we argue the points opposite from what we normally do while also trying to be logical, in this thread I'll have to support templars. Kommander, as per the original purpose of this thread, I genuinely would like to hear/read you try to from a logical argument in support of mages.

The fact is that because so many people rise to the banner of either side shows there's reasons to support both. As a mental excersise to expand our perspectives, we'll debate on either side. You defend mages and attack templars, and I'll defend templars and attack mages. 

If you don't want to talk about mages/templars on behalf of the mages, there are a multitude of other issues as well. You can defend blood magic, the elves of the Dales, the nobility of Orzammar, Harrowmont over Bhelen, or whatever. 

Support mages? well it would be impossible and incredible hard or naive simple outside mage perspective if that was grey and grey conflict i wouldn't have problems... What logical reason i would find to side whith guys who are causing only troubles... 

Only reason i would find to support mages cause if i was mage very desperate and even not simple because i would prefer escape that join mages as even if i was walking bombs other walking bombs fighting for lost cause won't help me...  

Well maybe so reason would be morality that supports everyone freedoom and taking someone freedom isn't right or something but i guess not very logical...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 23 février 2014 - 12:40 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

As this is the thread where we argue the points opposite from what we normally do while also trying to be logical, in this thread I'll have to support templars. Kommander, as per the original purpose of this thread, I genuinely would like to hear/read you try to from a logical argument in support of mages.

The fact is that because so many people rise to the banner of either side shows there's reasons to support both. As a mental excersise to expand our perspectives, we'll debate on either side. You defend mages and attack templars, and I'll defend templars and attack mages. 

If you don't want to talk about mages/templars on behalf of the mages, there are a multitude of other issues as well. You can defend blood magic, the elves of the Dales, the nobility of Orzammar, Harrowmont over Bhelen, or whatever. 

Support mages? well it would be impossible and incredible hard or naive simple outside mage perspective if that was grey and grey conflict i wouldn't have problems... What logical reason i would find to side whith guys who are causing only troubles... 

Only reason i would find to support mages cause if i was mage very desperate and even not simple because i would prefer escape that join mages as even if i was walking bombs other walking bombs fighting for lost cause won't help me...  

Well maybe so reason would be morality that supports everyone freedoom and taking someone freedom isn't right or something but i guess not very logical...

If you can't do the opposite of what you usually do, then this is not the thread for you because that is the point. For example, I would preach basically what you normally do since normally I disagree with your points.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

If you can't do the opposite of what you usually do, then this is not the thread for you because that is the point. For example, I would preach basically what you normally do since normally I disagree with your points.

What is point to do opposite of what you do i guess point was to point sense of other side that you are against and bio isn't very good at making "equal" conflicts...

so it is not to argee with side that we disagree or not support it is to point logical argumets of opposite side at least that is what i understood...

Only argument supporting mage side would be only freedom-centred morality (fiona mind-set) as i pointed...

[General TSAR]

The notion of all people deserving equal opportunity is bunk. Tevinter actually had it right, more or less; mages are fundamentally superior to nonmages by virtue of their superior capabilities,

So superior they can't even retake an island populated by the Qunari and rebel natives.

Modifié par General TSAR, 23 février 2014 - 12:54 .

[The Hierophant]

GO Mages! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Mages are forced into a lifetime of slavery under the Chantry. The very same organization has spread fallacious anti mage propaganda in an effort to ensure public assistance when imprisoning them. Once imprisoned they are watched by the drug addled zealots, the Templars. The only danger they present to society has soley been instigated by the constant abuse and fear they've suffered from the Templars.


The Templars have failed and only mages would succeed in policing themselves. Thanks to their superiority they deserve all the Maker given rights mundanes benefit from and more, like sovereignty. They shouldn't have to adhere to the laws of mundane socie-


*sighs* This is exhausting. My soul's too tired, i don't think i can continue.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Alright, it's probably going to be tricky to try to reverse some of my moderate or nuanced positions.

OK so I'll give it a shot with my opinions on elves.

Humanity has been a blight upon the Elvhen since those primitives crawled onto the shores of the continent who's ever square inch of rightfully belongs to the elves. Not only did they steal the their immortality with their filthy short lived lives, they also enslaved them for 800 years and destroyed their culture. And in the millennium since they've persecuted slaughtered and oppressed them ever after. Even when the People tried to finally create the nation state they've long deserved, the humans' religious insinuation would not let them be and immediately crushed their new homeland and outlawed their religion. Now is the time for the Dalish to rise up and at last reclaim their homeland. All of it. It is the moral duty for elves to destroy the shem nations who have been squatting in the ashes of the Elvhenan and restore themselves to glory and elliminate any and all humans that stand in the way of that.

And furthermore, the Chantry has put up with the existence those single minded racist xenophobic terrorists for long enough. The nations of Thedas need come together under the banner of the Chantry to put an end to the the disgusting spiteful knife ears once and for all. No more will they destroy countless lives in a mad quest to restore a long dead world that isn't worth saving. No more will their stubborn refusal to accept peace undermine humanity. No more will elves spit in the face of humanity's mercy. When all the elves are gone at last will Thedas be free of their selfishness and trechery.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 23 février 2014 - 02:15 .

[durasteel]

There is no value to preserving the society or traditions of the elves, and in fact the species itself should be hastened towards its inevitable demise. Even a cursory look at their history shows that they are completely inferior to the other races of Thedas, since even when no one is bothering to try to kill them their civilization crumbles when exposed to outside influence.

The fact that elven half-breeds are always fully of the race of the non-elven parent tells you all you need to know. They are designed to fade away as other races rise to prominence, they are predestined casualties of natural selection.

Their purpose was served as soon as they taught early humans to use magic. Their time is past, they are obsolete. It's past time for them to go the way of the griffon.

[durasteel]

The Chantry is... um... good, because... because it...

Right. Deep breath.

The Chantry is a force for good in the world, attracting those of conscience to lead benevolent efforts to care for the sick, feed the hungry, and shelter the homeless. It provides a moral grounding for society, an ideal to which both common folk and nobles may aspire. There is no one so base that he might not be ennobled in spirit through belief in the sublime, and no one so lofty that he cannot benefit from the inspiration that the Chant of Light offers the true believer.

I feel ill.

Modifié par durasteel, 23 février 2014 - 02:31 .

[Demx]

Mages are like...umm exotic creatures? They need to be protected and raised in an environment that is both healthy and safe for them. Placing pauldrons is similar to placing a shock collar on an animal. Training a mage in an enclosed facility to use their magic properly is more humane. Umm...I think I messed up somewhere.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

If you can't do the opposite of what you usually do, then this is not the thread for you because that is the point. For example, I would preach basically what you normally do since normally I disagree with your points.

What is point to do opposite of what you do i guess point was to point sense of other side that you are against and bio isn't very good at making "equal" conflicts...

so it is not to argee with side that we disagree or not support it is to point logical argumets of opposite side at least that is what i understood...

Only argument supporting mage side would be only freedom-centred morality (fiona mind-set) as i pointed...

The point of this thread is simply to have fun by arguing the opposite position you usually have. 

[durasteel]

I always enjoy reading posts by TheKomandorShepard. Their logic is unassailable, they are always articulate and demonstrate a unique wisdom and a perspective on the game that I find very insightful.

I'm getting the hang of this.