174 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Loghain is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Damn, my soul hurts after writing that.

[The Elder King]

Kirkwall is the most peaceful and stable city of Thedas. The population is gentle and pacific, and they all like to cooperate with each other. The Mages and the templars here are the perfect example of what they should be. The Viscount is a capable ruler. Petrice is a mild and calm woman, who loves peace and dislike scheming behind people's backs.


.....Well, I need a drink.

[BlueMagitek]

Kirkwall is the most peaceful and stable city of Thedas. The population is gentle and pacific, and they all like to cooperate with each other. The Mages and the templars here are the perfect example of what they should be. The Viscount is a capable ruler. Petrice is a mild and calm woman, who loves peace and dislike scheming behind people's backs.


.....Well, I need a drink.

 

I think this is reversing your argument, not lying to the point of hurting yourself. ;P

 

Like, oh : "Petrice has the right idea about the Qunari and handling it like that because..."

[Master Warder Z_]

I think this is reversing your argument, not lying to the point of hurting yourself. ;P

 

Like, oh : "Petrice has the right idea about the Qunari and handling it like that because..."

 

 

She did have the right idea about the Qunari...Those Abominations need to be removed from existence.

[Jack Druthers]

Deep breath...

 

The Therin  bloodline should have died out with Calenhad.  The whole family have proved they are manipulating, deceitful and power hungry. Ever since  Calenhad , Ferelden has been mired in blood and war.

 

Calenhad  used any way he could to gain power.From dabbling in dark magic to courting allies stronger than himself. He was a nobody who used the deaths of others for his own advancement.

 

Arland  Therin poisoned and  executed nobles and acted no better than Howe as the nobles tried to regain control of the throne.  He even attacked the grey warden base at Soldier's Peak to kill off the last person who stood against him. 

 

Vanedrin Therin lacked the leadership skills to unite his Country when the Orlesians invaded Ferelden and died at Lothering.

 

Brandel Therin was a characterless coward who lacked the trust of the people and chose to run away rather than fight.

 

Moira Therin tried to unite the Ferelden nobles against the Orlesians but the nobles saw in time that she would be as manipulative as the rest of her family, which resulted in her timely execution.

 

Maric Therin was one of the worst, a  weak-willed philanderer, who used people for his own ends.  This "Savior" gained his crown by leading many blindly  to their deaths.   His reign was riddled with bad decision making.

 

Cailan Therin was a spoilt brat who grew up not knowing or caring about the hardship his Country had been through.  He was a traitor who had connections to the Empress of Orlais. He abandoned his Queen and died at Ostagar in a quest for glory.

 

Alistair Therin was the sum total of the whole tribe.  A lacklustre character, a failed Templar who said he did not want the crown but was happy enough to let others fight his battles and die for him to get it.

 

Why has Ferelden put up generations of these reprobates?  There were noble families who knew the meaning of the title of King and what it meant to be one.  That most of them are no more leaves a dark bloody stain in Ferelden history.

 

That felt odd....

[Master Warder Z_]

Deep breath...

 

The Therin  bloodline should have died out with Calenhad.  The whole family have proved they are manipulating, deceitful and power hungry. Ever since  Calenhad , Ferelden has been mired in blood and war.

 

Calenhad  used any way he could to gain power.From dabbling in dark magic to courting allies stronger than himself. He was a nobody who used the deaths of others for his own advancement.

 

Arland  Therin poisoned and  executed nobles and acted no better than Howe as the nobles tried to regain control of the throne.  He even attacked the grey warden base at Soldier's Peak to kill off the last person who stood against him. 

 

Vanedrin Therin lacked the leadership skills to unite his Country when the Orlesians invaded Ferelden and died at Lothering.

 

Brandel Therin was a characterless coward who lacked the trust of the people and chose to run away rather than fight.

 

Moira Therin tried to unite the Ferelden nobles against the Orlesians but the nobles saw in time that she would be as manipulative as the rest of her family, which resulted in her timely execution.

 

Maric Therin was one of the worst, a  weak-willed philanderer, who used people for his own ends.  This "Savior" gained his crown by leading many blindly  to their deaths.   His reign was riddled with bad decision making.

 

Cailan Therin was a spoilt brat who grew up not knowing or caring about the hardship his Country had been through.  He was a traitor who had connections to the Empress of Orlais. He abandoned his Queen and died at Ostagar in a quest for glory.

 

Alistair Therin was the sum total of the whole tribe.  A lacklustre character, a failed Templar who said he did not want the crown but was happy enough to let others fight his battles and die for him to get it.

 

Why has Ferelden put up generations of these reprobates?  There were noble families who knew the meaning of the title of King and what it meant to be one.  That most of them are no more leaves a dark bloody stain in Ferelden history.

 

That felt odd....

 

 

*Claps* That was fairly well done my boy

[Jack Druthers]

*blushes*

[dragonflight288]

Time for a new argument of something I never defended....ever, as the very thought of it makes me sick to my stomach. Killing Connor at Redcliff. 

 

***

 

Some call the Circle's a place of slavery and oppression. Others may call it a center of learning. Others call it a place to contain the dangers of magic and keep it away from the world. Whatever it is, it separates the mages from the mundanes, and when mages turn into abominations, we can keep the majority of people from being affected.

 

While this is true, there is another angle that must be acknowledged. The human condition, rather the emotion called 'guilt.' It doesn't matter if you are born into nobility or as a peasant, if you hurt those close to you, or destroy what you value, you will feel guilt over it. But the effect guilt has on children can be considerably greater than it can on adults. 

 

Connor is a young noble, so the Circle would be a huge step down from what he normally expects out of life, where he is respected and the heir to a powerful arl. He has people waiting on him day and night, seeing that he is comfortable. He has an overbearing mother who trys to keep him safe from the consequences of not only her actions, but his own as well. If he goes to the Circle he will have a huge lifestyle change. 

 

Adding to the complexity of this change, we must also look at the guilt. Should we cure him of his being an abomination, he will forever know that he is responsible for the near destruction of Redcliff, the people under his father's care. His actions got his mentor arrested and tortured, put his father's life in direct danger from the demon, had his Uncle enthralled, and resulted in the deaths of possibly hundreds of commoners. The guilt he must feel when he learns the truth may very well crush him emotionally, hold him back from his potential and make him weak, and thereby likely made tranquil by the templars. 

 

Then there's bullying. Children may be little angels, the apples of their parents eyes, but only idiots disregard the fact that children can also be pretty dang nasty to each other. Anyone who says otherwise has obviously forgotten their own childhood. If we send Connor to the Circle, he may very well be bullied by the other children, whether from fear that he may get possessed again, or to make themselves feel better because they may be superior to a noble's son whereas they are just peasants and that's the only life they knew before the Circle. 

 

Whether we like it or not, Connor is in for a very, very difficult time growing up. Killing him may actually be a kindness rather than allow him to suffer the guilt, the trauma, the bullying, and the realities of being in a Circle where he will be watched constantly and held under constant suspicion by the templars. After all, he had already made a deal with a demon once. Many templars may feel he is an especially large risk. 

[Hellion Rex]

@dragonflight288....damn

[Jack Druthers]

My hat is sincerely doffed dragonflight

[Lotion Soronarr]

The magisters are right. Mages are superior to mundanes, and they should rule them, and have the power of use mundanes as they wish.
Using blood magic by sacrificing slaves isn't bad, it's just a sign of natural evolution.

 

Ya know, that avatar goes so well with that statement...
 

[The Elder King]

Ya know, that avatar goes so well with that statement...

Yeah, I know .
Off-topic, I'd like an antagonist like Aizen in DAI.

Modifié par The Elder King, 27 février 2014 - 11:42 .

[LarryDavid]

The term ‘Kossith’ is extremely confusing. It is not because the WoT states that it’s the name of a race that we should use it as such. It isn’t used in-game so if illiterate peasants wouldn’t recognize this term, who are we to use it?? In general if you have a group that can consist of several races, it is best to use the name of this group to refer to people belonging to the majority race of this group. After all, logic dictates that you do not use an unambiguous term if it is possible to use an ambiguous term in such a way that it loses some of its ambiguity! 

[dragonflight288]

@ eluvianix and Jack Druthers,

 

Thanks....I think. It was really difficult writing that. 

[EmissaryofLies]

How can they be free?

 

Moral arguments aside. It's incredibly unwise to let them run amok. 

 

How many Orsinos, Quentins, and Uldreds is Andrastian society willing to tolerate?

 

How many more pride demons and duplicitous blood mage supporters should we allow to endanger a circle let alone a village?

I would not deign to make a ridiculous allegory pertaining a mage going off like some sort of nuclear weapon. What is of most concern is blood magic. Say what you will about your Bethanys and your Irvings. At the end of the day, the mages are going to learn about blood magic. No matter how small the number, in the hands of an inexperienced circle mage, something will inevitably go wrong. From what we've seen you can argue that most mages will make an error and it will be game over. Not only for the mage, but people in the surrounding area.  You've seen what can happen. You seen what DOES happen. Oh and lets not forget about that pesky human nature....

 

Now the question is this, how much are you willing to tolerate?

 

How many times must a mage set a settlement aflame, mind control someone to do his/her own bidding, or Tarohne a city?

 

I'm not sure about you, but for every Wynne there's going to be an Uldred. For every Bethany there will be a Quentin. For every well meaning, compromising mage, there will inevitably come an Anders. 

 

I will not risk. 

[Jack Druthers]

How is Wynne's possession different from Uldred's?  Spirit or Demon  - it's still possession.  Bethany Hawk was taught by a suspected blood mage how is her magic different from Quentin's?  They are just another who slips past the net.  I'll add that  mages like Jowan and Irving had access to books on blood magic, they do not of have the excuse of being courted by a Spirit/Demon.

[dragonflight288]

How is Wynne's possession different from Uldred's?  Spirit or Demon  - it's still possession.  Bethany Hawk was taught by a suspected blood mage how is her magic different from Quentin's?  They are just another who slips past the net.  I'll add that  mages like Jowan and Irving had access to books on blood magic, they do not of have the excuse of being courted by a Spirit/Demon.

 

She is different in that she retained her will, her morals and her mind. Uldred's was gone completely. As he says when we got to the top of the Tower "I am Uldred and I am not Uldred. I am more than he was." And Niall says in the meeting Uldred summoned a bunch of demons, screamed really loudly when he lost control, and then he was possessed.

 

EDIT: Wait, is this a reversal argument and you normally say she is different? This is a thread I started and I'm confusing myself. LOL. 

Modifié par dragonflight288, 28 février 2014 - 02:32 .

[Jack Druthers]

Dammit, er.. In the Fade she seemed confused, and did not have the will to leave, despite her "affinity for Spirits" Her moral compass swung a bit.  She went from "Loghain's a B*******" to "I was wrong about you Loghain" to "We will find Ruck" but will help kill him  or even stands there mute but approves if Filda is lied to.  Also if The Warden cures the werewolves, she'll happily help kill the humans afterwards.

 

Baby-sitting Alistair with a view to becoming an advisor to the throne master stroke of manipulation, but she had a Leliana-type of approach to people and played to their weaknesses.

 

Then there's her involvement with Pharamond's research - demons/spirits summoned and people died.  

 

off topic slightly but is there any evidence that ashes can be reconstituted somehow like Gazarath in the Korcari wilds?

[dragonflight288]

 

off topic slightly but is there any evidence that ashes can be reconstituted somehow like Gazarath in the Korcari wilds?

 

You know, that is a very good question. I have no idea.

 

EDIT: Huh, didn't post what I typed for some reason so I'm trying again. 

Modifié par dragonflight288, 28 février 2014 - 07:53 .

[dragonflight288]

Dammit, er.. In the Fade she seemed confused, and did not have the will to leave, despite her "affinity for Spirits" Her moral compass swung a bit.  She went from "Loghain's a B*******" to "I was wrong about you Loghain" to "We will find Ruck" but will help kill him  or even stands there mute but approves if Filda is lied to.  Also if The Warden cures the werewolves, she'll happily help kill the humans afterwards.

 

Baby-sitting Alistair with a view to becoming an advisor to the throne master stroke of manipulation, but she had a Leliana-type of approach to people and played to their weaknesses.

 

Then there's her involvement with Pharamond's research - demons/spirits summoned and people died.  

 

 

True. I guess that's why I like Ines the Botanist, who mockingly says "everyone loves 'I'm so special the Fade shines out of my bum' Wynne."

[ames4u]

Lets not forget the whitewashing the Dalish gave their own history. Denying missionaries was clearly part of an attempt by their government to downplay the fact that Shartan, perhaps the most influential elven leader of the last thousand years, was a disciple of Andraste and a follower of the Chant.

Even today when Dalish historians mention Andraste it is only ever as human religious figure, ignoring Shartan and the generations of elves who believed in the Maker after him. Their pride would never allow them to do otherwise.

 

They not only white wash their history to paint the humans as the bad guys, they fail to even try to see the bigger picture. Whether they like it or not, they will never regain the same ground they had before. They will never grow to the same numbers they once were. Their antagonistic nature, though justified, will earn them no favors when the sh*t hit's the fan. Who will be their allies when the human's decide, enough is enough? The city elves which they heap mounds of scorn upon?

 

And say they did gain a bit power back; how long will it be before they start screaming for revenge and slaughtering hundreds of innocent humans in order take more territory?  The only reason the Dalish take the high and mighty route, is because they lack the power and influence to enact their true intentions. They are just as bloodthirsty, just as ruthless and unforgiving as the humans were back then. I may be wrong but I could've sworn one of the dalish mentioned that their people attacked first in one of the skirmishes of old and reasoned it away as protecting themselves even though the humans hadn't actually done anything threatening. My mind may be tricking me, but I think that's accurate.

 

I also find it disturbing how they view city elves as no longer elven just because they chose to adapt to their surroundings. It is as if they believe themselves to be the law and master of what it means to be an elf. Their stubborn pride and arrogance has left them on the run and isolated from the world. Which they think is a good thing-but should any of the big contenders decide they are a problem, they can very easily be wiped out by sheer numbers alone. If given the chance, bounties could be placed on their heads and they would be hunted to near extinction.

[dragonflight288]

I was reading the return to moderates, and a debate about supporting either the Dalish or the Werewolves. 

 

Well, I never defended choosing siding with the werewolves, so I'll be thinking up an argument soon. I just need to make it justifiable in my own mind first. 

[Master Warder Z_]

I personally am coming up a reverse to my current stance on well...this is ever so slightly embarrassing but my view of the Denizens of the fade.

 

Trying to find a counter to my normal stance of being against anything vaguely being from there is quite difficult, I normally don't approve of interacting with spirits, summoning spirits and assuming that there are even benign spirits.

[dragonflight288]

I personally am coming up a reverse to my current stance on well...this is ever so slightly embarrassing but my view of the Denizens of the fade.

 

Trying to find a counter to my normal stance of being against anything vaguely being from there is quite difficult, I normally don't approve of interacting with spirits, summoning spirits and assuming that there are even benign spirits.

 

You may want to try something along the lines of spirit healers or researching ways to better defend yourself from possession and demons to reduce the risk mages face, and that means studying the Fade and the spirits there, and not just with Chantry or Dalish dogma's on it, but as they truly are, warts and all. 

[dragonflight288]

It's been awhile since this has been updated, so I'm going to make an argument I haven't made before. I will be arguing in favor of the werewolves in Origins, and why we should join them. 

 

***

 

What has been one of the most successful strategies of any war throughout history? The one thing all armies completely depend upon? The answer is completely simple. Supply lines. 

 

Rob an army of their food, and you can break the morale of an army within a week. If they ration what little they have just to last, you'll be dealing with an army of hungry soldiers, probably fighting each other for scraps of food, or even mass desertions. They also probably need to maintain their arms and armor, make arrows and bows, string said bows, make arrowheads, spare metal for the blacksmiths to repair broken swords or ruptured breastplates (I'm not a blacksmith, so I don't know how that actually works.) But the blacksmith would definitely need a bellows, an anvil, and plenty of fuel to make a hot fire.

 

Then soldiers need a place to store their weapons and armor. The quartermaster is usually in charge of where soldiers go, where they get their supplies and so on, and they will inevitably fall short, whether from looters, skirmishes with the enemy, or even possible gambling among the troops. 

 

So one of the most effective ways to hit them, and hit them hard, is to target their supply lines. Rob them of their equipment, their food, and so on is very damaging to an army. After all, an army that is starving and doesn't have enough weapons or armor to effectively use all their soldiers is an army with a huge disadvantage. 

 

Add in the racism against the elves that seems to be inherent in most humans in Thedas, and in the Dalish against humans and you have a recipe for disaster waiting to happen among the soldiers. Tensions may rise, soldiers may fight each other instead of the darkspawn.

 

However, with the werewolves, if anyone gives them a hard time, werewolves can easily bolster their own numbers should a fight break out. Also, werewolves have no need to maintain arms or armor. Heck, the werewolf representative in the Warden's camp doesn't need anything to make the werewolves a more effective fighting force like all the others do, from runes, money, gems or herbs. They have exactly what they need to fight from the moment of their spawning. They are swift, strong, agile, and naturally armed with both tooth and claw. 

 

Anyone who has an army of werewolves behind him can easily overwhelm an enemy force. Their speed probably exceeds a mabari charge, their strength easily overcomes any militia or battalion of raw recruits, and there can not be any way to dismiss the demoralizing affect seeing a large pack of werewolves bearing down on you, knowing full well that even if you survive, you may lose everything you are as you turn into one of them.

 

They are the worst army to face, as they are an army with no supply lines, no way to demoralize them, no way to starve them, and almost no way to stop them.