64 réponses à ce sujet

[grey_wind]

Should the revelation of the Reapers and the galactic extinction cycle have been left for a later game?

Personally, I think we should have had a few more games just zipping around and exploring the galaxy. It's such a large and interesting galaxy, and we've barely scratched the surface of this universe. Seeing Council Space, the Attican Traverse, the Terminus- all could have made great settings for stand-alone games on their own. It would have given the developers more time to flesh out the various aspects of their newly crafted universe. We'd have had the chance to explore the various races and their cultures in-depth, rather than relegating the majority of development to just the humans, Krogan, Quarians and Geth.

Heck, that would have made the Reaper reveal even more powerful and impacting had we actually been more invested in the galaxy when the big twist with Sovereign came. It would have also allowed the Shepard Trilogy to focus on the Reapers alone, rather than forcing the writers to try and juggle the Reaper plotline along with hastily fleshing out the universe. Most importantly, we'd have been fully invested in saving this galaxy when the apocalypse finally came. As it stands now, we have people (rightfully) complaining that the fall of places like Earth and Thessia didn't even resonate with them, and that's just not right in a story like this.

[SilentJohn1]

I agree that the end of mass effect came too early, and that more content in between begin and end would have been nice. I feel more connected to Mindoir than Earth, being a colonist. Also I would really like to know what the hell happened on Rothla and what the Rachni have been up to since I saved them on Noveria. Though I feel the events of mass effect 1 and 2 are a good setup to increasing anticipation of the Reapers. I think mass effect 3 should have been a preparation and investigation game adding background and more emotion to your playthrough. Then mass effect 4 could have been more or less the same as the mass effect 3 we have now.

[Invisible Man]

no, I think the info on the reapers, the cycle etc. were released at the right time. I think the mistake was starting the reaper invasion the way it was started, and expecting it to be over in a single game, especially when we hardly fight the reapers at all. though this is all my own opinion on the matter, however, I'm open to anyone else's.
 
---edit
noticed my writing was a tad off.

Modifié par Invisible Man, 22 février 2014 - 06:37 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think the main problem was that ME2 didn't do much to advance the narrative, thus when ME3 came around everything felt even more rushed. I think it would have been better if the Reaper's plan B got them into the galaxy at the end of ME2 and ME3 takes place a few months or years into the invasion.

[SwobyJ]

No.

All ME2 needed for this was greater foreshadowing of the Crucible. Perhaps even at least the start of the search for its plans.

[shodiswe]

SwobyJ wrote...

No.

All ME2 needed for this was greater foreshadowing of the Crucible. Perhaps even at least the start of the search for its plans.

The Protean dataches you collect in ME1 are tied to the Crusible, it's said to be Crusible research in ME3. I guess however that there could have been some mention of someone interpreting it as some kind of Protean schematics, possibly of a superweapon... That would have been foreshadowing.

ME2 could have had further evidence of this, perhaps EDI could have downloaded some partial schematics from the collector ship when she invaded their systems.

[Invisible Man]

shodiswe wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

No.

All ME2 needed for this was greater foreshadowing of the Crucible. Perhaps even at least the start of the search for its plans.

The Protean dataches you collect in ME1 are tied to the Crusible, it's said to be Crusible research in ME3. I guess however that there could have been some mention of someone interpreting it as some kind of Protean schematics, possibly of a superweapon... That would have been foreshadowing.

ME2 could have had further evidence of this, perhaps EDI could have downloaded some partial schematics from the collector ship when she invaded their systems.

or maybe TIM gets his hands on the prothean data drives you collected in me1, and they get stolen by bluesuns mercs during transport, and you need to track them down again, then you find that the prothean disks contain plans for a device, and as you gather them you get more and more sections of the device plans until TIM can confirm that the device seems to be some kind of anti-reaper WMD? what starts out as a simple side mission to the SM turnouts to be a major plot device. or skip the SM and cut the collectors out of it entirely?

[shodiswe]

Invisible Man wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

No.

All ME2 needed for this was greater foreshadowing of the Crucible. Perhaps even at least the start of the search for its plans.

The Protean dataches you collect in ME1 are tied to the Crusible, it's said to be Crusible research in ME3. I guess however that there could have been some mention of someone interpreting it as some kind of Protean schematics, possibly of a superweapon... That would have been foreshadowing.

ME2 could have had further evidence of this, perhaps EDI could have downloaded some partial schematics from the collector ship when she invaded their systems.

or maybe TIM gets his hands on the prothean data drives you collected in me1, and they get stolen by bluesuns mercs during transport, and you need to track them down again, then you find that the prothean disks contain plans for a device, and as you gather them you get more and more sections of the device plans until TIM can confirm that the device seems to be some kind of anti-reaper WMD? what starts out as a simple side mission to the SM turnouts to be a major plot device. or skip the SM and cut the collectors out of it entirely?

It's possible the discs could have helped TIM locate the Mars vault. Or maybe TIM's deepcover agents learned about the findings, Liara had been workign on it for a while, then they sent EVA to recover it for TIM.
EVA didn't move until the Vault had been properly excavated.

[Invisible Man]

shodiswe wrote...

Invisible Man wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

No.

All ME2 needed for this was greater foreshadowing of the Crucible. Perhaps even at least the start of the search for its plans.

The Protean dataches you collect in ME1 are tied to the Crusible, it's said to be Crusible research in ME3. I guess however that there could have been some mention of someone interpreting it as some kind of Protean schematics, possibly of a superweapon... That would have been foreshadowing.

ME2 could have had further evidence of this, perhaps EDI could have downloaded some partial schematics from the collector ship when she invaded their systems.

or maybe TIM gets his hands on the prothean data drives you collected in me1, and they get stolen by bluesuns mercs during transport, and you need to track them down again, then you find that the prothean disks contain plans for a device, and as you gather them you get more and more sections of the device plans until TIM can confirm that the device seems to be some kind of anti-reaper WMD? what starts out as a simple side mission to the SM turnouts to be a major plot device. or skip the SM and cut the collectors out of it entirely?

It's possible the discs could have helped TIM locate the Mars vault. Or maybe TIM's deepcover agents learned about the findings, Liara had been workign on it for a while, then they sent EVA to recover it for TIM.
EVA didn't move until the Vault had been properly excavated.

I was actually doing a sort of first draft of a possible direction they could have taken me2 into. not something headcanon-ish to cover the gaps created by not pushing the plot forward enough with me2.

[Bob from Accounting]

Given the uproar over the ending, it's incredibly difficult to take a claim of 'People didn't care about the galaxy' even remotely seriously.

As for removing the Reapers, if there is no conflict, there is no story. Mass Effect is hardly the first 'epic' story to have some people not particularly like the inevitable shift of focus towards confronting whatever threat arises. I do notice how fan content overwhelmingly focuses more on character interaction and the like instead of conflict with the villain. Perhaps it should be taken as a testament that fans are fans...and professionals are professionals.

Modifié par Bob from Accounting, 22 février 2014 - 10:14 .

[shodiswe]

Bob from Accounting wrote...

Given the uproar over the ending, it's incredibly difficult to take a claim of 'People didn't care about the galaxy' even remotely seriously.

As for removing the Reapers, if there is no conflict, there is no story. Mass Effect is hardly the first 'epic' story to have some people not particularly like the inevitable shift of focus towards confronting whatever threat arises. I do notice how fan content overwhelmingly focuses more on character interaction and the like instead of conflict with the villain. Perhaps it should be taken as a testament that fans are fans...and professionals are professionals.

Yeah, Shepard is a Professional, but the fans controling Shepard are like Conrad Verner!

Modifié par shodiswe, 22 février 2014 - 10:16 .

[Bob from Accounting]

Err...I was talking about professional writers. Who probably have a better grasp that stories need a conflict (and that 'epic' stories require corresponding conflicts) than most fans.

[shodiswe]

Bob from Accounting wrote...

Err...I was talking about professional writers. Who probably have a better grasp that stories need a conflict (and that 'epic' stories require corresponding conflicts) than most fans.

"Conflict" was entierly missing from the endings however.... There was pretty much no drama what so ever..

Modifié par shodiswe, 22 février 2014 - 10:22 .

[Bob from Accounting]

...That's just silly.

The imminent demise of humanity, Earth, and Shepard's crew and loved ones by monsters is a great amount of conflict.

What the endings lacked was a satisfying means of resolving it.

[SwobyJ]

shodiswe wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

No.

All ME2 needed for this was greater foreshadowing of the Crucible. Perhaps even at least the start of the search for its plans.

The Protean dataches you collect in ME1 are tied to the Crusible, it's said to be Crusible research in ME3. I guess however that there could have been some mention of someone interpreting it as some kind of Protean schematics, possibly of a superweapon... That would have been foreshadowing.

ME2 could have had further evidence of this, perhaps EDI could have downloaded some partial schematics from the collector ship when she invaded their systems.

ME1 was barely anything.

ME2 had almost nothing.

Lair of the Shadow Broker had a couple lines (if you talk to Liara on the Base after the DLC storyline), but it was something more direct. You know, as actual foreshadowing.

And yes, I meant something like your last paragraph. Some partial schematics. Something. Anything. Lol.

[Remix-General Aetius]

the greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist. the Reaper threat is present throughout the ENTIRE ME2, just veiled in the form of the Collectors.

what does everyone say the Reapers do in ME3? they harvest organic life, and then they start creating more Reapers from their genetic material. and what do the Collectors do in ME2? they harvest humans........and break down their genetic material to create the Human Reaper monstrosity. the harvest had already begun before the events of ME3.

so people saying ME2 was a filler game or it had barely anything to do with Reapers or whatever is plain stupid.

[katamuro]

Invisible Man wrote...

no, I think the info on the reapers, the cycle etc. were released at the right time. I think the mistake was starting the reaper invasion the way it was started, and expecting it to be over in a single game, especially when we hardly fight the reapers at all. though this is all my own opinion on the matter, however, I'm open to anyone else's.
 
---edit
noticed my writing was a tad off.

I agree, the fact that the whole "war" was supposed to end in just one game that is of comparable lenght to the other 2 was the wrong decision. They should have taken more time to make the game, at least 3 years, then ading more "war" scenarions into it, showing how the war is being fought. Show the last battle, not just as some single strike, but as battles usually occur. Then they might have also made the ending differently or just released it as EC from the start. 

[themikefest]

I would have ME3 introduce the crucible and build alliances with all the species. Near the end of the game the reapers start entering the galaxy and ME4 would be fighting the reapers.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I think they got enough of a lead-in with ME2 and ME3. I wish the Crucible had more of an introduction in ME2 at the very end, and I wish that in ME3, the Reapers didn't attack immediately. I wish we had the promised trial scene at the beginning of ME3 that would allow us to recap important events and establish our Shepard's personal opinions and allegiances. And I wish there was a more satisfying conclusion and motivation to the Reapers in ME3, as well as more war-related imagery, not simply fighting Cerberus over and over again.

[Lawrence0294]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think they got enough of a lead-in with ME2 and ME3. I wish the Crucible had more of an introduction in ME2 at the very end, and I wish that in ME3, the Reapers didn't attack immediately. I wish we had the promised trial scene at the beginning of ME3 that would allow us to recap important events and establish our Shepard's personal opinions and allegiances. And I wish there was a more satisfying conclusion and motivation to the Reapers in ME3, as well as more war-related imagery, not simply fighting Cerberus over and over again.

+1

[RangerSG]

shodiswe wrote...

Bob from Accounting wrote...

Err...I was talking about professional writers. Who probably have a better grasp that stories need a conflict (and that 'epic' stories require corresponding conflicts) than most fans.

"Conflict" was entierly missing from the endings however.... There was pretty much no drama what so ever..

This was the problem. The ending provided no resoultion of conflict. Firing the Superweapon was even taken out of the player's hands and turned into an effective suicide pact by the enemy. That's the issue.

Babylon 5 revealed the Shadows in season 1. When it resolved the Shadow War in season 4, there were still stories to tell, but resolution mattered. So it's not a question of 'how soon' the Reapers appeared. ME2 was the most fun game, but it had the weakest core story. It showed us nothing new about the Reapers themselves, and stayed focused on the proxy. As a result, we didn't learn anything more about what the enemy's plan actually was. Who they were, or why they were working.

It left too many threads dangling until ME3, too much story to tell in too short a time. This is why many planned epic fantasy and sci-fi book series tend to GROOOW as well, BTW (See: A Song of Ice & Fire. Wheel of Time had a different problem, cashcowitis). They concentrate so much on 'preliminary' conflicts in the early volumes that they forget what the real story is. Character conflict is great and necessary. But you have to move the main plot along as well. Codex Alera, by Jim Butcher, does a good job of balancing both, IMHO. But few people pace as well as he does. 

Modifié par RangerSG, 22 février 2014 - 04:10 .

[Bob from Accounting]

themikefest wrote...

I would have ME3 introduce the crucible and build alliances with all the species. Near the end of the game the reapers start entering the galaxy and ME4 would be fighting the reapers.

That would not work.

[themikefest]

Bob from Accounting wrote...

themikefest wrote...

I would have ME3 introduce the crucible and build alliances with all the species. Near the end of the game the reapers start entering the galaxy and ME4 would be fighting the reapers.

That would not work.

Why?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Bob from Accounting wrote...

themikefest wrote...

I would have ME3 introduce the crucible and build alliances with all the species. Near the end of the game the reapers start entering the galaxy and ME4 would be fighting the reapers.

That would not work.

Notionally it could. The only problem is that it relies on a speculative ME4.

[Bob from Accounting]

themikefest wrote...

Bob from Accounting wrote...

themikefest wrote...

I would have ME3 introduce the crucible and build alliances with all the species. Near the end of the game the reapers start entering the galaxy and ME4 would be fighting the reapers.

That would not work.

Why?

Because ME 4 would inevitably feature the Reapers rolling in, crushing the fleets and Shepard saving the day at the last minute with the Crucible. Which not only fails to solve the supposed problem you're attempting to address (The galaxy is unprepared) it actually makes it far worse. At least now Shepard has the fleets backing him. All this accomplishes is making the Crucible all the more of a DEM for having it built and activated by a broken galaxy.

It also sends the thematic message that unity and alliances and ultimately pointless. Which is not a message that should be sent.

Modifié par Bob from Accounting, 22 février 2014 - 06:53 .