317 réponses à ce sujet

[MesTarrant]

 The more games I play, the more frustrated I sometimes become at the lack of creative design for female characters. (I'm a woman, if that matters - though I think men and women can both have this concern.)


To be honest the game that really pushed my buttons (even though I still LOVE IT TO BITS) is Mass Effect. We had so many unique male aliens - it was obvious their designers had a great time pushing themselves creatively to bring unique species into the game. Drell, salarians, turians, krogans, volus - all male, all unique, none particularly "attractive" but I suppose that's up for debate.


Females - Asari? Quarians? Human? All the same. All thin, busty, sexy. No design creativity gone into them whatsoever. They are just there for sex appeal. I watched a youtube vid with some designer laughing about the idea of a female krogan (who in the end was Eve) and how to possibly make her female. It's like it never occured to him to just make her look bad-ass as opposed to sexy. (In the end she looked like a regular krogan just completely covered up... Well it's a step in the right direction I guess.)


Now I'm looking at this Dragon Age character art. The link seems to say it's for DA2, so I don't know if this is an indication of what Inquisition will be like... But anyway, even though I really think Dragon Age is miles better in this sense than Mass Effect, I still think the game suffers (or is going to suffer) from the same limitations when it comes to creating cool female characters.


I'm not trying to say we should abolish all sexiness from the game. I'm just saying it would be nice to have more variety. For instance at this point the qunari female looks hot. Gone are the bulging muscles and the frankenstein forehead thing and the slightly stooped shoulders. If it weren't for the horns and the skin color, she actually wouldn't look like a different race AT ALL. But remove the horns and skin color from the male qunari, and he still looks non-human.


If the female dwarf wasn't standing next to a male dwarf, she wouldn't look non-human either. Just short. 


As I said before, Dragon Age really isn't all that bad in this aspect because we did have Shale. But we also had old lady Wynne who had basically the same body as a young woman. Why not make her more realistically old - pudgy in some areas, saggy, etc... You know?


I just think it'd be great to have more of a mix of sexy characters and CREATIVE characters for females.  Hope I didn't step on any toes. What do you think??

[ruggly]

I think some of it is due to costs. While it would be nice, I don't see it happening quite yet. It's easier/less expsensive just to re-use assets.

[MesTarrant]

ruggly wrote...

I think some of it is due to costs. While it would be nice, I don't see it happening quite yet. It's easier/less expsensive just to re-use assets.

Hmm. That's true. Though I suppose they could use some of the budget to amp up the females as opposed to using it solely for males, know what I mean? 50/50.

[Rotward]

Nope. They should all be exactly the same, like those elves in DA2!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

MesTarrant wrote...

ruggly wrote...

I think some of it is due to costs. While it would be nice, I don't see it happening quite yet. It's easier/less expsensive just to re-use assets.

Hmm. That's true. Though I suppose they could use some of the budget to amp up the females as opposed to using it solely for males, know what I mean? 50/50.

To turn the question around, why is practically every male character muscular?

[MesTarrant]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

MesTarrant wrote...

ruggly wrote...

I think some of it is due to costs. While it would be nice, I don't see it happening quite yet. It's easier/less expsensive just to re-use assets.

Hmm. That's true. Though I suppose they could use some of the budget to amp up the females as opposed to using it solely for males, know what I mean? 50/50.

To turn the question around, why is practically every male character muscular?

I didn't think male elves were but... *tries to imagine Fenris naked* Yeah I think you're right, they do tend to be similarly bulging. 


However at least they're different in other aspects, like I mentioned before. Body shape, facial structures, etc.

[Covi]

Don't forget the Rachni Queen. Quite unique, and not very sexy ;-)

As far as the Krogan are concerned, it's men who should be offended. ME3 basically told us that it requires a wise female to keep the violent brutes in check.

Modifié par Covi, 22 février 2014 - 10:03 .

[dragonflight288]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

MesTarrant wrote...

ruggly wrote...

I think some of it is due to costs. While it would be nice, I don't see it happening quite yet. It's easier/less expsensive just to re-use assets.

Hmm. That's true. Though I suppose they could use some of the budget to amp up the females as opposed to using it solely for males, know what I mean? 50/50.

To turn the question around, why is practically every male character muscular?

hmm...I don't know. The only game I've ever played that was an RPG where you could play a really fat male non-muscular, okay two games since I thought of a second, is Fable and Dragon's Dogma. 

[Giant ambush beetle]

Newsflash: all male characters have the same body model too. The old mad hermit in DAO had the same body as my hardened warrior-warden. Because its too damn expensive and time intensive to make different body models and animate them. At least for Bioware.

Modifié par The Woldan , 22 février 2014 - 10:05 .

[Zerker]

How about we just stop struggling to be politically correct, accept that human male will naturally search for something to fantasize about boning especially during the precious few hours of his day set apart solely for entertainment, and as a gaming company the audience of which is largely made up from relatively young male gamers, Bioware has to take advantage of that.

May be we can manage to ignore these trivialities and just focus on the quality of the actual story content, may be.

Modifié par Maddok900, 22 février 2014 - 10:08 .

[MesTarrant]

Maddok900 wrote...

How about we just stop struggling to be politically correct, accept that human male will naturally search for something to fantasize about boning especially during the precious few hours of his day set apart solely for entertainment, and as a gaming company the audience of which is largely made up from relatively younger male gamers, Bioware has to take advantage of that.

May be we can manage to ignore these trivialities and just focus on the quality of the actual story content, may be.

lol  Okay... Well if you're going that route, isn't it common knowledge now that gamers' average age is 30+ and females make up 45% of that?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

MesTarrant wrote...

Maddok900 wrote...

How about we just stop struggling to be politically correct, accept that human male will naturally search for something to fantasize about boning especially during the precious few hours of his day set apart solely for entertainment, and as a gaming company the audience of which is largely made up from relatively younger male gamers, Bioware has to take advantage of that.

May be we can manage to ignore these trivialities and just focus on the quality of the actual story content, may be.

lol  Okay... Well if you're going that route, isn't it common knowledge now that gamers' average age is 30+ and females make up 45% of that?

The 45% female part is partially the answer to the "All men are muscular" thing too.

[Zerker]

MesTarrant wrote...

lol  Okay... Well if you're going that route, isn't it common knowledge now that gamers' average age is 30+ and females make up 45% of that?

No matter what the articles based on surveys done on a few thousand gamers with shared tendencies tell you, I can assure you that the average age is nowhere near 30, it simply isn't.

And don't get me started on that %45, I just hope that you are aware of the actual very little number of female gamers compared to males, and that number includes people who never play anything else than Sims. As it is mentioned however, the only reason the males of Dragon Age appear to be well-shaped is that they are simply more attractive that way. Here's secret, women usually don't like to bone ugly fat guys as well.

Modifié par Maddok900, 22 février 2014 - 10:22 .

[MesTarrant]

Maddok900 wrote...

MesTarrant wrote...

lol  Okay... Well if you're going that route, isn't it common knowledge now that gamers' average age is 30+ and females make up 45% of that?

No matter what the articles based on surveys done on a few thousand gamers with shared tendencies tell you, I can assure you that the average age is nowhere near 30, it simply isn't.

And don't get me started on that %45, I just hope that you are aware of the actual very little number of female gamers compared to males, and that number includes people who never play anyhting else than Sims.

How do you know that, then? Because of your personal experiences? 


I'd rather believe surveys, even if they are imperfect, to anecdotal data.


Am I, as a female gamer, supposed to feel unique or alone in some way?


I'm sensing some defensiveness going on here... I was really hoping for some genuine debate/discussion. I never said we should get rid of all the hot chicks, I just said we need more variety. Like for instance our confirmed Inquisition companions are Cassandra (hot) and Varrick (short hairy dwarf... hot to some?). I'd love for a third confirmed companion to be a short hairy lady dwarf, for instance. That's all. 


EDIT: Maybe more women would be drawn to these games in the first place if they weren't so unequal. :innocent:

Modifié par MesTarrant, 22 février 2014 - 10:22 .

[Veruin]

Maddok900 wrote...

And don't get me started on that %45, I just hope that you are aware of the actual very little number of female gamers compared to males, and that number includes people who never play anything else than Sims.

I thought it was Smart phone games > online flash games > "casual" games (Think gameshow PC games, sims etc), Other.

MesTarrant wrote...
, I just said we need more variety. Like for instance our confirmed Inquisition companions are Cassandra (hot) and Varrick (short hairy dwarf... hot to some?). I'd love for a third confirmed companion to be a short hairy lady dwarf, for instance. That's all. 

You won't get unique bodies, EVERYONE shares the same body model.  The most you could hope for is varied facial structures.  Which, we already have in DA.

Modifié par Veruin, 22 février 2014 - 10:21 .

[smoke and mirrors]

I thought Red Dead did a good job of different bodies and faces , it does get a bit annoying when every NPC looks and sounds the same .

[Mirrman70]

I feel like the OP is ignoring that most male characters in games are "physically attractive". I would point out all the posts made by Cullen, Alistair and Fenris fans as evidence that is just as much eye candy for girls as there is for guys. And what about Aveline? she did not come off as "sexy" to me.

[Isaidlunch]

MesTarrant wrote...

How do you know that, then? Because of your personal experiences? 


I'd rather believe surveys, even if they are imperfect, to anecdotal data.


Am I, as a female gamer, supposed to feel unique or alone in some way?


I'm sensing some defensiveness going on here... I was really hoping for some genuine debate/discussion. I never said we should get rid of all the hot chicks, I just said we need more variety. Like for instance our confirmed Inquisition companions are Cassandra (hot) and Varrick (short hairy dwarf... hot to some?). I'd love for a third confirmed companion to be a short hairy lady dwarf, for instance. That's all. 


EDIT: Maybe more women would be drawn to these games in the first place if they weren't so unequal. :innocent:

But Cassandra herself is an example of variety, with her short hair and slightly masculine facial features. I can guarantee you now that many people are going to avoid romancing her as if she was diseased just because of that.

It sounds like you want female characters that are genuinely ugly rather than just Hollywood ugly. A short hairy lady dwarf is never going to happen for obvious reasons... things like Wynne having an older body is much more reasonable but even that requires effort that is hard to justify. Is it really worth it to make a whole new model just to make it that more obvious that she's old?

Modifié par Kazanth, 22 février 2014 - 10:43 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Maddok900 wrote...

MesTarrant wrote...

lol  Okay... Well if you're going that route, isn't it common knowledge now that gamers' average age is 30+ and females make up 45% of that?

No matter what the articles based on surveys done on a few thousand gamers with shared tendencies tell you, I can assure you that the average age is nowhere near 30, it simply isn't.

Fortunately old farts like myself (almost 33) that grew up at and just after the inception of video gaming will start shifting that number increasingly upwards!

I can't really say what the average age is.  You can disagree with the ESA studies since people will disagree on whether the games are truly games, or what have you, but if you're just speaking from personal experience and intuition, it's best to not "assure" us of anything.


Taken more clearly: Lets not waste anyone's time discussing whether or not it is or is not relevant to have a topic like this based on whatever make up we think the games industry has for its demographics.

[Cainhurst Crow]

These races aren't supposed to be radically different, they're all meant to be humanoids with similar features and traits. Furthermore it sounds like your grievance is more aimed towards mass effect then dragon age. And even further I don't understand how you can claim the women of various races look to similar to the men of human varieties when the men of those races also look just as similar to humans as they women do.

[smoke and mirrors]

Mirrman70 wrote...

 And what about Aveline? she did not come off as "sexy" to me.

I have to say i loved Aveline`s strong personality and would have romanced her in a heart beat .

[Rogue Roxy]

Alan? Almost 33 is just at/after the inception of video gaming? I love your thinking, but I was video gaming WAY ahead of you. BBSing was my first love, with all of its text based gaming, dial-up quirks, and vast innovations that lead to what is now the current consensus of video gaming. We led the pack. I'll gladly trade your age, but not for my video gaming experience.

~ Roxy

[Mirrman70]

text based games are just choose your own adventure books on the computer.

[kukumburr]

I actually don't mind when within a race a gender uses the same body type. Like how all human females have basically the same body type, same with males. This is probably due to the costs associated with having more customization.

However, I agree with the original poster that when looking at ALL races within a game, males have more variable body types then females. Yes all the men might be muscular, but there is still more variability in the level of musculature than as compared to the women. You can even see this in the DA2 races image that was linked. Just looking at arm size, compare the male dwarf with the male elf. Now compare the female dwarf with the female elf. There is a big difference between the males, where as there's almost no difference between the females.

I would definitely love to see more designs like the female krogan and turians that break the mold. I don't mind having sexy female characters, but if you're going to make a race that is unique and very different appearance-wise than humans, it should apply to both the men AND women. I personally would have liked the female qunari to look more intimidating and muscular, like their male counterparts.

[The Hierophant]

OP speak plainly. What you want is more varied unconventional body types and faces for females like their male counterparts?