317 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

HiroVoid wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...


Yes because BSN is a person... and this person only has 1 idea ever..... serously.....

Also your example is pretty ****** poor... "people complained because there is too much of X, but they also complin that there is none " for me thats like a big "Duh!" of course they will compain.

People complain because there is too much Chocoloate, people complain after you remove all the chocoloate from the world.

Same difference.

You do understand that the same people who said Harbinger talked too much said they hated him as well.

Alright.  Show me every BSN user who said they thought Harbinger talked too much and also an example of them saying they hated him as well.

I'm not diving into that hell. That  4 years of me2 bsn posts.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 23 février 2014 - 06:30 .

[Versus Omnibus]

durasteel wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

<image of Pauline Nordin snipped>

This is my ideal woman model in games like Dragon Age. Her muscle mass looks realistic, she looks physically fit, and she still looks attractive. Give her some armor and she's ready to slay some demons.

I admire the effort she must have put into achieving that level of fitness, but I wouldn't say there was anything "realistic" about her as a model for combat-ready women. I've seen any number of athletes, soldiers, and firefighters who have a much more believable physicality for a warrior.

Also, not to detract from her in any way, but I find the orange fake tan and the implants to be alienating. 

Mind sharing some pictures of them? I was just looking up women's bodies that looked like they've been swinging swords and polearms for a living.

[leaguer of one]

OperatingWookie wrote...

9TailsFox wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Fifth Fleet Out wrote...

Women are less bulky then us men, the bodies have reflected that in the DA universe. If your complaint is that women in the DA or mass effect verse are too sexy, the men are pretty good looking as well. From Kaiden, Default Shepard, and the Illusive Man.

If it were the same, there'd be closeup Miranda!shots of Kaidan's backside.

But these forums aren't about Mass Effect, so....

*snipped*

Not a dialogue scene where you have it in your face while you're picking a dialogue option.

Fair point though.

Man, Jacob had those shots,too.

[leaguer of one]

My weight on this. Both sexes have this issue. In da both males and female formed in idealistic bodies. The only real solution is just to have a slider for body shape like Swtor had. And for ME, Males were near equally sexual. The only issue I see with the woman in ME is Samara's boob window and the shoes that just have to have heels. Body shape is not much an issue being that this is a society with tech and science that greatly enhance the body on a genetic level.(Though Femshep should have stronger looking arms.)

[Fredward]

The thing that really grinds my gears is this pervasive assumption that women are supposed to be attractive. Whatever attractive entails. If they don't they're open to intense scrutiny and criticism (with the criticism being, oddly enough, that XYZ of their face/body is unrealistic), if they do they're either characterized as "normal" and get largely ignored or their attractiveness or part of it become a vocal point of that character. Like Miranda's Ass™. You don't see this, like at all, happening to any of the males. Not that I'm saying it should I'm just trying to point out a discrepancy here. Either females are treated to a different set of rules than males or males are excluded from some strange social ritual. Personally I'm going with the former. After which the question becomes why. I'm not sure why. Actually I probably am sure why but I like to think people are generally above such base social indoctrination. Alas.

Aveline's face hurts my eyes. Sure my standards of beauty might stem from that social indoctrination I just opined about but it's also totally irrelevant. Her appearance has very little to do with her as a character and I love her, as a character. There's a weird connection between physical appearance and character with females in gaming that doesn't exist (or very much less so) with males. That's a problem. DA definitely trundles away from the trope if not Bioware as a whole.

Something similar exists with men too ofc, the whole muscley manly-man thing but that's a power fantasy. Men act women appear etc. It's still a problem since it proposes a "correct" way of being but it's also much more likely to be subverted, as a whole. Still a problem though. Baby steps.

[Nefla]

I'm a woman and I really like the way women are portrayed heroically, socially, and visually in DA. Boob shaped armor may not be practical, but it's not the only choice. The heavy armor has a barrel shaped torso that would fit men and women with small breasts. Realistically women like me with very large breasts would not be able to wear rigid armor (leather and chainmail would work) and would pretty much be excluded from combat.

You know what though? I don't care about realism. We already have magic, dragons, demons, people with giant horns growing out of their head for some reason, armor with enormous and/or spiky pauldrons that would put your eye out if you lifted your arms as well as excessive and non functional chains, straps, sashes, metal claws, swords the size of a surfboard, etc...I would rather have my character look good and look like a woman than look realistic in armor.

Mass Effect wasn't the best at portraying women, but if was far from the worst and DA doesn't share its' flaws. Also having distinguishable feminine features doesn't mean a character is sexualized. Hey, you can tell that she has boobs or a butt, oppression! I have seen people cry "sexism" over something like a tight jumpsuit or armor that conforms to the body on a woman even when she has a male counterpart that is dressed exactly the same. Just because you may find it sexually attractive doesn't mean it's sexualized.

[n7stormrunner]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The thing that really grinds my gears is this pervasive assumption that women are supposed to be attractive. Whatever attractive entails. If they don't they're open to intense scrutiny and criticism (with the criticism being, oddly enough, that XYZ of their face/body is unrealistic), if they do they're either characterized as "normal" and get largely ignored or their attractiveness or part of it become a vocal point of that character. Like Miranda's Ass™. You don't see this, like at all, happening to any of the males. Not that I'm saying it should I'm just trying to point out a discrepancy here. Either females are treated to a different set of rules than males or males are excluded from some strange social ritual. Personally I'm going with the former. After which the question becomes why. I'm not sure why. Actually I probably am sure why but I like to think people are generally above such base social indoctrination. Alas.

Aveline's face hurts my eyes. Sure my standards of beauty might stem from that social indoctrination I just opined about but it's also totally irrelevant. Her appearance has very little to do with her as a character and I love her, as a character. There's a weird connection between physical appearance and character with females in gaming that doesn't exist (or very much less so) with males. That's a problem. DA definitely trundles away from the trope if not Bioware as a whole.

Something similar exists with men too ofc, the whole muscley manly-man thing but that's a power fantasy. Men act women appear etc. It's still a problem since it proposes a "correct" way of being but it's also much more likely to be subverted, as a whole. Still a problem though. Baby steps.

I'm sorry but I feel he need to post about something different before my head explodes, but aren't most women attractive in real life, why would fantasy be any different?

[n7stormrunner]

Nefla wrote...

I'm a woman and I really like the way women are portrayed heroically, socially, and visually in DA. Boob shaped armor may not be practical, but it's not the only choice. The heavy armor has a barrel shaped torso that would fit men and women with small breasts. Realistically women like me with very large breasts would not be able to wear rigid armor (leather and chainmail would work) and would pretty much be excluded from combat.

You know what though? I don't care about realism. We already have magic, dragons, demons, people with giant horns growing out of their head for some reason, armor with enormous and/or spiky pauldrons that would put your eye out if you lifted your arms as well as excessive and non functional chains, straps, sashes, metal claws, swords the size of a surfboard, etc...I would rather have my character look good and look like a woman than look realistic in armor.

Mass Effect wasn't the best at portraying women, but if was far from the worst and DA doesn't share its' flaws. Also having distinguishable feminine features doesn't mean a character is sexualized. Hey, you can tell that she has boobs or a butt, oppression! I have seen people cry "sexism" over something like a tight jumpsuit or armor that conforms to the body on a woman even when she has a male counterpart that is dressed exactly the same. Just because you may find it sexually attractive doesn't mean it's sexualized.

thank you

[leaguer of one]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The thing that really grinds my gears is this pervasive assumption that women are supposed to be attractive. Whatever attractive entails. If they don't they're open to intense scrutiny and criticism (with the criticism being, oddly enough, that XYZ of their face/body is unrealistic), if they do they're either characterized as "normal" and get largely ignored or their attractiveness or part of it become a vocal point of that character. Like Miranda's Ass™. You don't see this, like at all, happening to any of the males. Not that I'm saying it should I'm just trying to point out a discrepancy here. Either females are treated to a different set of rules than males or males are excluded from some strange social ritual. Personally I'm going with the former. After which the question becomes why. I'm not sure why. Actually I probably am sure why but I like to think people are generally above such base social indoctrination. Alas.

Aveline's face hurts my eyes. Sure my standards of beauty might stem from that social indoctrination I just opined about but it's also totally irrelevant. Her appearance has very little to do with her as a character and I love her, as a character. There's a weird connection between physical appearance and character with females in gaming that doesn't exist (or very much less so) with males. That's a problem. DA definitely trundles away from the trope if not Bioware as a whole.

Something similar exists with men too ofc, the whole muscley manly-man thing but that's a power fantasy. Men act women appear etc. It's still a problem since it proposes a "correct" way of being but it's also much more likely to be subverted, as a whole. Still a problem though. Baby steps.

"Like Miranda's Ass™. You don't see this, like at all, happening to any of the males."

....
What. And they even have butt shots of him in cutscenes as well.

[Allan Schumacher]

n7stormrunner wrote...

I'm sorry but I feel he need to post about something different before my head explodes, but aren't most women attractive in real life, why would fantasy be any different?

Just as a note, the perspective that "boob plate" would be less effective for the wearer isn't actually a new one that he created.  You can disagree that other people are also wrong, but the perception that the armor would be less protective as a result, and potentially even more dangerous to the wearer, isn't a new one.

I am not an armorsmith and have zero knowledge over how armor feels when it is worn and what have you, but the idea of the armor deflecting a blow towards your center of mass certainly comes up a lot.

You're suggesting that those that feel this way are incorrect in their assessments?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Aveline's face hurts my eyes. Sure my standards of beauty might stem from that social indoctrination I just opined about but it's also totally irrelevant. Her appearance has very little to do with her as a character and I love her, as a character. There's a weird connection between physical appearance and character with females in gaming that doesn't exist (or very much less so) with males. That's a problem. DA definitely trundles away from the trope if not Bioware as a whole.

I'd prefer it if more female chars were like Aveline, or at least not classically beautiful.

And romancable. 

And I'd really love it if the 'hawt' female party members were not able to be LIs, just to see how many people complain.

[leaguer of one]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...





And I'd really love it if the 'hawt' female party members were not able to be LIs, just to see how many people complain.

They're  called Samara, Edi, Samantha, and Kasumi.....

[n7stormrunner]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

I'm sorry but I feel he need to post about something different before my head explodes, but aren't most women attractive in real life, why would fantasy be any different?

Just as a note, the perspective that "boob plate" would be less effective for the wearer isn't actually a new one that he created.  You can disagree that other people are also wrong, but the perception that the armor would be less protective as a result, and potentially even more dangerous to the wearer, isn't a new one.

I am not an armorsmith and have zero knowledge over how armor feels when it is worn and what have you, but the idea of the armor deflecting a blow towards your center of mass certainly comes up a lot.

You're suggesting that those that feel this way are incorrect in their assessments?

I believe it largely depend on the armour, using the example posted earlier the answer no, it is basically the same design for the men and women except making room for under the armour for breasts. if however the changes open a gap in the armour then yes it would be a problem. of couse if you can get though the armour anyhow when there is no gap or the gap is always a part of the design for men or women. then it wouldn't matter if it was "boob plate" or not you would have cut though anyway.

then again I have a very odd point of view when it comes to such things, I don't start form the point of veiw that people in any time are any dumber then we are now. we may have more fact on hand but that doesn't mean we're any smarter

[leaguer of one]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

I'm sorry but I feel he need to post about something different before my head explodes, but aren't most women attractive in real life, why would fantasy be any different?

Just as a note, the perspective that "boob plate" would be less effective for the wearer isn't actually a new one that he created.  You can disagree that other people are also wrong, but the perception that the armor would be less protective as a result, and potentially even more dangerous to the wearer, isn't a new one.

I am not an armorsmith and have zero knowledge over how armor feels when it is worn and what have you, but the idea of the armor deflecting a blow towards your center of mass certainly comes up a lot.

You're suggesting that those that feel this way are incorrect in their assessments?

I believe it largely depend on the armour, using the example posted earlier the answer no, it is basically the same design for the men and women except making room for under the armour for breasts. if however the changes open a gap in the armour then yes it would be a problem. of couse if you can get though the armour anyhow when there is no gap or the gap is always a part of the design for men or women. then it wouldn't matter if it was "boob plate" or not you would have cut though anyway.

then again I have a very odd point of view when it comes to such things, I don't start form the point of veiw that people in any time are any dumber then we are now. we may have more fact on hand but that doesn't mean we're any smarter

What does it matter. It's an old design that is no longer used. We don't have boob armor any more.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 23 février 2014 - 07:16 .

[n7stormrunner]

leaguer of one wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

I'm sorry but I feel he need to post about something different before my head explodes, but aren't most women attractive in real life, why would fantasy be any different?

Just as a note, the perspective that "boob plate" would be less effective for the wearer isn't actually a new one that he created.  You can disagree that other people are also wrong, but the perception that the armor would be less protective as a result, and potentially even more dangerous to the wearer, isn't a new one.

I am not an armorsmith and have zero knowledge over how armor feels when it is worn and what have you, but the idea of the armor deflecting a blow towards your center of mass certainly comes up a lot.

You're suggesting that those that feel this way are incorrect in their assessments?

I believe it largely depend on the armour, using the example posted earlier the answer no, it is basically the same design for the men and women except making room for under the armour for breasts. if however the changes open a gap in the armour then yes it would be a problem. of couse if you can get though the armour anyhow when there is no gap or the gap is always a part of the design for men or women. then it wouldn't matter if it was "boob plate" or not you would have cut though anyway.

then again I have a very odd point of view when it comes to such things, I don't start form the point of veiw that people in any time are any dumber then we are now. we may have more fact on hand but that doesn't mean we're any smarter

What does it matter. It's an old design that is no longer used. We don't have boodb armor any more.

taken by it's self, it doesn't. but what it says about a persons point of veiw and way of looking at the world does very much so.

[Allan Schumacher]

I believe it largely depend on the armour, using the example posted earlier the answer no, it is basically the same design for the men and women except making room for under the armour for breasts. if however the changes open a gap in the armour then yes it would be a problem. of couse if you can get though the armour anyhow when there is no gap or the gap is always a part of the design for men or women. then it wouldn't matter if it was "boob plate" or not you would have cut though anyway.

Is this perspective based upon any actual experience? In order to "make room for under the breasts," you'd have to structurally change the armor. Wouldn't this override the idea that the armor is essentially the same design? Wouldn't the force dissipation of a heavy, blunt hit to the armor be different? If not, why not?

[leaguer of one]

n7stormrunner wrote...

taken by it's self, it doesn't. but what it says about a persons point of veiw and way of looking at the world does very much so.

The arguement is about that? Or is it not about whether or not a woman is given something realistic to wear or if the person cares about that?
In the end it up the the person putting on the armor. But that really does not matter.

[nightcobra]

don't know if it's relevant to the topic but it's nice for reference purposes at least.



video

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 23 février 2014 - 07:29 .

[leaguer of one]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I believe it largely depend on the armour, using the example posted earlier the answer no, it is basically the same design for the men and women except making room for under the armour for breasts. if however the changes open a gap in the armour then yes it would be a problem. of couse if you can get though the armour anyhow when there is no gap or the gap is always a part of the design for men or women. then it wouldn't matter if it was "boob plate" or not you would have cut though anyway.

Is this perspective based upon any actual experience? In order to "make room for under the breasts," you'd have to structurally change the armor. Wouldn't this override the idea that the armor is essentially the same design? Wouldn't the force dissipation of a heavy, blunt hit to the armor be different? If not, why not?

More of a case to why some would go out of the way to make boob armor and not just make something that is unisex and have the woman bound her business down.

[KaiserShep]

SylvuisTheSwag wrote...

One problem I had with DA:2 was the issue of the body types. I make a warrior and it was immersion breaking cause I was not convinced that such a scrawny character model could swing around such a huge blade like that.

To be fair, the two-handed swords are rather disproportionate anyway, and even with rather built-up character models like Hawke and Carver, the swords still look really unwieldy. Look at Fenris.

Although, I have to say that it was pretty funny to see that tiny elven fanatic swing that giant sword around during the Blackpowder Courtesy quest.

[n7stormrunner]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I believe it largely depend on the armour, using the example posted earlier the answer no, it is basically the same design for the men and women except making room for under the armour for breasts. if however the changes open a gap in the armour then yes it would be a problem. of couse if you can get though the armour anyhow when there is no gap or the gap is always a part of the design for men or women. then it wouldn't matter if it was "boob plate" or not you would have cut though anyway.

Is this perspective based upon any actual experience? In order to "make room for under the breasts," you'd have to structurally change the armor. Wouldn't this override the idea that the armor is essentially the same design? Wouldn't the force dissipation of a heavy, blunt hit to the armor be different? If not, why not?

a heavy blunt hit... it would depend on how changed the armour was.. a women with small enough breasts
may even be ok will male armour, those we see in video game, they have alot more, um padding. it would hurt like hell, but assuming it didn't damage the armour itself, it wouldn't be much different them male, assuming women warriors are as tough as their male counterpart, which considering child birth I don't think would be a problem. personally I would worry more about under the breast where there would be a seam for a blade to punch though.

experience with plate no, with getting hit, middle school wasn't fun for me, but highschool was very quiet.

[leaguer of one]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

don't know if it's relevant to the topic but it's nice for reference purposes at least.



video

You win the arguement.

[leaguer of one]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I believe it largely depend on the armour, using the example posted earlier the answer no, it is basically the same design for the men and women except making room for under the armour for breasts. if however the changes open a gap in the armour then yes it would be a problem. of couse if you can get though the armour anyhow when there is no gap or the gap is always a part of the design for men or women. then it wouldn't matter if it was "boob plate" or not you would have cut though anyway.

Is this perspective based upon any actual experience? In order to "make room for under the breasts," you'd have to structurally change the armor. Wouldn't this override the idea that the armor is essentially the same design? Wouldn't the force dissipation of a heavy, blunt hit to the armor be different? If not, why not?

a heavy blunt hit... it would depend on how changed the armour was.. a women with small enough breasts
may even be ok will male armour, those we see in video game, they have alot more, um padding. it would hurt like hell, but assuming it didn't damage the armour itself, it wouldn't be much different them male, assuming women warriors are as tough as their male counterpart, which considering child birth I don't think would be a problem. personally I would worry more about under the breast where there would be a seam for a blade to punch though.

experience with plate no, with getting hit, middle school wasn't fun for me, but highschool was very quiet.

look at nightcobra's post.

[AppealToReason]

I have a hard time believing that that 45% of gamers are women. I know tons of girls, young and old, and but a few play games.

Unless you're gonna count mobile games then holy crap they could feasibly account for it and I'd be shocked that its only 45%.

[dan109]

I've always found the topic of "realistic" plate armor for women to be very strange. Everyone here realizes that women never actually fought in plate armor on account of being too weak to use it effectively, right? That's reality.

Now I realize that this is a fantasy game and if you want to have all sorts of women warriors running around, I've got no problem with it, but arguing about the functionality of their armor is like arguing about the functionality and "realism" of a dragon's scales. A woman warrior in a chainmail bikini is no more or less realistic than one wearing full plate. Just like dragons, they're both creatures of fantasy, so you might as well stylize them any way you want. Realism and practicality are not applicable here.