317 réponses à ce sujet

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

The issues regarding women are only in the west while eastern peoples have no issues with women. The feminism is started in the west while in the east women are not as bad in condition as the feminists of the west try to portray

My people have women warriors we call as Srikandi, all women who fight or warriors are Srikandi.

We also have a tribe who's culture is women oriented, the Minangkabau people, who women is the the dominant in the culture

*looks at the manga he's reading* sure we'll go with that 

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

The world is big, full of many peoples and cultures, but western people think the world is small and everyone is like them. That make their view about the world is narrow, they are like "frogs who see the world under the coconut shell" like my people used to say.

All the oversexualize women issue, women as sex symbol issue, women cannot fight and be in kitchen issue, women cannot do men job issue, women is second class citizen issue and so many others are western women issues....

In the east, far east especially, women play a large part in history and society...people see women as seeing anybody else...but of course today with so many influences from the west and middle east disturb what already being established by Malay peoples in the past regarding women...

uh huh

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

malay people have the only woman admiral in the world, her name is Admiral Kemala Hayati from Acheh and she fight the Portuguese...she lead the women fleet

Up to today even in the west, no women admiral ever existed except in fantasy

ok

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

So it means women issues is no issues at all in the far east actually, until the west and middle eastern disturb it. While women in the west are fighting for women liberation, we have woman admiral who command a fleet...while women and men in the west arguing about women armor, we in the east have woman armor because we have women warriors

It is funny you know...

good to know

[Dutchess]

I can understand that including all kinds of body types is not very feasible for a game (though Skyrim's bodyslider did work nicely) and am not really bothered if the standard female body type has breasts and hips. It is the armor design that irks me more, and Bioware could definitely improve here.



Why the cleavage for so many designs? Flemeth is some kind of old, mysterious witch who lives in a small hut and can turn into a dragon. Why does she dress up in her tight, spiky dress with extra cleavage after saving the Warden and Alistair? There are plenty of things you could do with her design without going for "oh, look, boobs". Samara had the same thing. A hundreds (thousand?) of years-old Asari woman, sworn to a life devoted to her "code" and to hunt her own daughter. Why would she bother with such an amount of cleavage? Almost no earthly posessions, she is no longer interested in romance, but... what, her breasts need some air while she travels through space and kills criminals?

Isabela... whenever I played DA2 and had a cutscene with her, I ended up staring at her breasts, simply because they were so large and looked very unnatural, like she had stuffed two basketballs in her shirt. There might be women in the real world who have a slim figure like Isabela and breasts of that size (without resorting to plastic surgery) but they are very rare. I have never seen them yet.
"But it suits her character!" Er... what? She likes sex and is free-thinking, and the reason she is that way is because she has huge breasts? Or she grew huge breasts when she decided to have sexual relationships with whomever she happened to like? That kind of reasoning makes no sense. I can get over the outfit, because that can actually make sense for her character, but please don't pretend that the large breasts are a completely random addition and were not added to make her extra (or overly, IMO) sexy.
"But look, we have Aveline as well, so that evens it out!" Oh, yeah, you've put in another female character, one who is not conventionally attractive, made her a soldier and a practical person and she wears full armor. That's great. No, really, it is. Aveline is a great character. Isabela is a great character as well. But that one character is not overly sexualized does not mean that the other one isn't. It does not make it more logical to put gravity-defying breasts on that other character.

Bioware is doing better with female characters than some other game developpers. That's true. I appreciate that, and I appreciate the work that has been put into writing (and designing) these female characters, but it is not as good as it is sometimes made out to be, also by Bioware itself. I think that's what irks me the most, to see someone like Gaider talk ebout emancipation and how Bioware is doing a good job at not making sexist games (because, hey, have you seen Aveline?), while in reality female Hawke's run was pretty much impossible to achieve in real life (I don't run like that. I can't run like that) and Flemeth found her jar of anti-wrinkle cream and the outfit she wore at her last Halloween party. [People of] Bioware, I appreciate what you're trying to do and what you are already doing right, but be careful with blowing your own horn. You are not quite there yet.



I am not trying to be condescending or offensive here. This is my genuine impression.

[KaiserShep]

The run and idle animation for female characters in DA2 are pretty ridiculous, and I sure missed the standard trot of DA:O, and hell I even missed the head-is-about-to-fall-off animation of Shepard in ME2 lol.

I will say, however, that the female animation did at least prove itself useful here.

M!Hawke with that animation is just so fab.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 23 février 2014 - 10:42 .

[Reznore57]

I think Renjility , Bioware made some design choices about this.
It's like Buffy the Vampire Slayer , it's supposed to be the highlight of feminism.And don't get me wrong I love the show...
But the strong female hero always has great hair , full make up and is nicely dressed even when she spend three days without sleep rolling in some cemetery dirt.

I'd say Bioware is mostly looking for iconic looks , and again it isn't bad , it can offer really strong visuals.But on the other hand they tend to fall on some visual stereotypes.
Which can affect both male /female characters.
In DA2 , often stupid , or villain characters looked fugly.I mean the templar with the rape face , the crazy mage who puts make up in the dark , Danarius walking like a woman, etc...

[Dean_the_Young]

Qistina wrote...

malay people have the only woman admiral in the world, her name is Admiral Kemala Hayati from Acheh and she fight the Portuguese...she lead the women fleet

Up to today even in the west, no women admiral ever existed except in fantasy

Edit : This is her tomb...

http://artmelayu.blo...al-admiral.html

Maybe your grammer is just ****ed up and you're referring to ancient history alone, but Malay isn't the only people to have had a female admiral.

Of course, if you are referring to history, only minor culture having a woman achieve that military rank doesn't actually speak to much about broader non-western female roles and rights. Certainly not compared to, say, the tradition of footbinding and other aspects in China, a much broader and more dominant culture across its history than the Malay. Even in the context of malay, a singular success story doesn't actually represent the normal status quo, any more than in any other culture. There were black slaveholders in the American South who were successful, but their success doesn't reverse the overall position of blacks in antebellum South.

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

In the west, women who fight must look masculine...and so we have Marvel superheroes with masculine women such as Wonder Woman and many others, it is because the gender separation is so bad in the west unlike in the east. As we can see the Xena the princess warrior whatever are all oversexualize masculine men...It even carry through Dragon Age where we got Aveline a He-Man woman because she is a shield tank

in contra when western people realize that it is all just fantasy of the film and comic maker, the art changed...there are more of eastern values added about women...no longer women superheroes are masculine women in the art. But that lead to certain other issues when it is questioned that "can women really fight like men in that condition?" also now women being portrayed falsely in media and films. And there are business people who use that to sell their products...so we got "Isabella"

The gender struggle is going badly in the west, and so you got such issues regarding women and how women are portrayed in the media. It is not a case in other part of the world. Men feel threatened by women progression in the west, while women always feels being a victim of gender discrimination and false portrayal. (Edit : In other party there are women who proud of being what being portrayed about them..)

epic fail qistina... wonder women is dc. 

[KaiserShep]

Reznore57 wrote...
In DA2 , often stupid , or villain characters looked fugly.I mean the templar with the rape face , the crazy mage who puts make up in the dark , Danarius walking like a woman, etc...

Yeah it was pretty clear that the characters' designs seemed to be reflected in their sinister personas. Danarius looked like the Amish undead, and Tirohne's white lipstick was like the icing on the batsh*t cake.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 23 février 2014 - 10:58 .

[ElitePinecone]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Not at all. I want BioWare to make the best characters they possibly can and putting self-imposed restrictions on characters from the outset inhibits that. If the writers sat down to start coming up with characters and had a list of minorities, social groups, etc to make characters from then those characters are worthless IMO. Above all I want well-written characters with interesting personalities. I don't want political correctness and a childish definition of inclusivity invading my video games. And I say my video games because BioWare is basically the only company making games that I love.

Have you considered that this attitude itself is a bit childish? I mean, you have just as much a claim to Bioware's games as the people who do want them to be inclusive and diverse in their character creation. If you don't care about ethnicity or gender, then you lose nothing by having a diverse cast - but people who rarely see representations of themselves in videogames have much to gain. Adopting a "this is my sandcastle, get your own" approach to this issue strikes me as a misguided reaction to people who very much just want to enjoy the same thing you do.

Moreover, if you don't care about ethnicity/gender/sexuality and just want them to create good characters, what on earth does it matter if Bioware sits down and says "we need black characters, female characters, gay characters" and they're all well-written? I see absolutely no connection between them trying to be inclusive, and the quality of the writing. There is nothing that implies diverse characters are somehow weaker than a blazingly heterosexual white cast. The idea of "organically" writing characters is a fantasy anyway - surely you know they *always* break down companions so that the gender balance is roughly equal. 

As someone said above, you could change the skin colour of half the DA cast and it would do absolutely nothing to the plot. Alistair wouldn't change one bit by being black - except that people who *never* see non-stereotypical black characters in videogames would have a character that represented them. 

[Xilizhra]

Samara had the same thing. A hundreds (thousand?) of years-old Asari woman, sworn to a life devoted to her "code" and to hunt her own daughter. Why would she bother with such an amount of cleavage? Almost no earthly posessions, she is no longer interested in romance, but... what, her breasts need some air while she travels through space and kills criminals?

If I may interject on this, it's entirely possible that breasts have different symbolism in asari culture than in human. Granted, I don't know if that's what was going through their minds, but it's a possible explanation.

[KaiserShep]

It was certainly on Ken Donnelly's mind. May he get his wish to live out the rest of his days at an asari retirement home.

ElitePinecone wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Not
at all. I want BioWare to make the best characters they possibly can
and putting self-imposed restrictions on characters from the outset
inhibits that. If the writers sat down to start coming up with
characters and had a list of minorities, social groups, etc to make
characters from then those characters are worthless IMO. Above all I
want well-written characters with interesting personalities. I don't
want political correctness and a childish definition of inclusivity
invading my video games. And I say my video games because BioWare is basically the only company making games that I love.

Have
you considered that this attitude itself is a bit childish? I mean, you
have just as much a claim to Bioware's games as the people who do want
them to be inclusive and diverse in their character creation. If you
don't care about ethnicity or gender, then you lose nothing by having a
diverse cast - but people who rarely see representations of themselves
in videogames have much to gain. Adopting a "this is my sandcastle, get
your own" approach to this issue strikes me as a misguided reaction to
people who very much just want to enjoy the same thing you do.

Moreover,
if you don't care about ethnicity/gender/sexuality and just want them
to create good characters, what on earth does it matter if Bioware sits
down and says "we need black characters, female characters, gay
characters" and they're all well-written? I see absolutely no connection
between them trying to be inclusive, and the quality of the writing.
There is nothing that implies diverse characters are somehow weaker than
a blazingly heterosexual white cast. The idea of "organically" writing
characters is a fantasy anyway - surely you know they *always* break
down companions so that the gender balance is roughly equal. 

As
someone said above, you could change the skin colour of half the DA cast
and it would do absolutely nothing to the plot. Alistair wouldn't
change one bit by being black - except that people who *never* see
non-stereotypical black characters in videogames would have a character
that represented them. 

I agree with this. Greater diversity in a story tends to have a very positive effect on its atmosphere.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 23 février 2014 - 11:13 .

[Maria Caliban]

MesTarrant wrote...

ruggly wrote...

I think some of it is due to costs. While it would be nice, I don't see it happening quite yet. It's easier/less expsensive just to re-use assets.

Hmm. That's true. Though I suppose they could use some of the budget to amp up the females as opposed to using it solely for males, know what I mean? 50/50.

Cost has nothing to do with the design of women in the Dragon Age games. Cost had something to do with the lack of women in the Mass Effect games.

[Aremce]

renjility wrote...

Isabela... whenever I played DA2 and had a cutscene with her, I ended up staring at her breasts, simply because they were so large and looked very unnatural, like she had stuffed two basketballs in her shirt. There might be women in the real world who have a slim figure like Isabela and breasts of that size (without resorting to plastic surgery) but they are very rare. I have never seen them yet.

Yep. Bethany and even Hawke, at least a female mage in certain robes, had pretty oversized breasts, too. Maybe all females had, it only showed more or less depending on the armor. It's one of the very few issues I (as a white, western woman in her early twenties, since that seems to matter here ) have in regards of the portraying of female characters in DA ... It just seems weird to have those unnaturally large breasts on otherwise carefully written and designed characters. It's okay to give them a "nice" body shape, imho, but it starts to get ridiculous when they all have, like, a bra size of 70H ...

[Wulfram]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Cost has nothing to do with the design of women in the Dragon Age games. Cost had something to do with the lack of women in the Mass Effect games.

Well, it's why all the women (and all the men) have the same body type in DA:O.  And why most of them have the same body type in DA2.

[Bond]

I think we need more hot females. I mean, from the first few seconds of Dragon Age Origins i knew i woud romance Morrigan, because of her look. Just like in real life, you first see the appearence of someone and if you are attracted, you get to know the person. I want girls like Leliana, Morrigan, Miranda, Ashley...etc. Isabella i did not like, but she must be there for the same reason.

In DA2 i romanced Merril despite the fact i did not find her super attractive, but she was weak and hopeless without Hawke, this i found interesting and made me like her better than Isabella for example. I played mass effect countless times and never bring myself to romance Tali. Not once. I romanced ONCE Liara, Miranda about three times, Ashley twice and Jack once. Tali type of characters i can not bring my char to be more of a close friend.

[karushna5]

Its their, how do I put it, their stories. Isabela isnt just a pirate, shes a pirate that almost everyone but varric calls names to put it lightly. No guy who sleeps around would that happen to, Zevran, and even Anders talked about sex, but never called names for it and looked down on her for it. The narrative changed due to her being a woman.

Aveline if she were a man would not have been awkward about being a woman in armor. When with Isabela, it is made clear she is "mannish" "female battering ram" (something by the way a "friend" gamer uses to insult any female warrior I make) Something a guy would be proud of, she is made ashamed. I always felt Aveline was sometimes tough girl in armor, but sometimes the punchline was she was a woman in armor.

Merrill was written as a woman almost exclusively, and I can really get into it, but I love her character a lot and going in on it would be more like a character analysis post, If I can, would like to skip her. I feel like she has always been a can of worms I am always afRaid to open.

Morrigan, ah morrigan, who talks about men so derisively, whose memories and stories about herself feature around beauty and being a woman and using it against others along with her mother who did likewise, and also main story is about giving her to another and her revenge. All wonderful, and I am glad to hear them, but Morrigan is so very much a woman. Once again I love her to pieces, but just saying her story almost entirely focuses on her being a girl.

Lelianna is also a great character. She is a contrast between sweet and innocent to deadly in a fight due to her position as a bard which was ruthless. In some ways she is a female counterpart to Sebastian. But while he constantly talks about his old life compared to his new one and his kingdom, a large part of her dialogue is on dresses, hair, fancy things. Not to say that is bad, just that be nice to have stories that are about women that dont require women to fill that roll? I hope I am making sense.

Velanna, is my favorite DA:A character, although admittedly in spite more than anything. I was wrong about her being written as woman first, the other characters often talked about her in those terms but she did not. Awakening had no plight of the elves, and even the character called Justice made her apologize. She wasnt written as a woman at all though, irrational, yes, exclusively feminine? No.

finally Sigrun, who was sweet and adorable and a little bittersweet. Hers was the contrast of cute and fun loving versus accepting her death. I have noticed that 2 contrasting main traits (where such traits are serious vs not serious at least) are often the women, but eh mincing words. But while she has many of the issues I have with Merrill I am hesitant to bring them up.

Sorry this was so long, and I really do adore the characters. I just feel like instead of I am a woman boom! Or even look at how I can keep up with the boys and am tough lady! I just want the occaisonal? Story of a hero who just so happens to also be a woman. Not masculine or feminine, just...heroes.

[ElitePinecone]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Cost has nothing to do with the design of women in the Dragon Age games. Cost had something to do with the lack of women in the Mass Effect games.

I think it was an issue of technical cost as much as actual resources, judging from some dev posts. 

Human males and some of the aliens (batarians) used literally the same body model, and asari were just human female bodies with different heads attached. But every extra body type they had to load into memory for that level meant fewer things that could be there overall, and I think at some point it was decided that this couldn't extend to unique female body types for some of the alien species. Since salarians and turians (I'm pretty sure) used their own unique body rigs, making female versions would've been another two rigs that needed to be loaded every time one appeared in a level. 

We can certainly debate whether introducing female aliens should've been a higher priority when they were working out how much could fit into a level at once, but I think in Mass Effect's case they were certainly pushing the technical limits of the PS3 and Xbox 360 pretty hard even from day one.

[Dean_the_Young]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

How would it benefit? Why do things just to do them instead of creating characters organically? Why make race a focus at all?

A benefit, it seems, is simply that some people would go "hey, I appreciate that."

Here's part of the issue I think people have: most of our staff is white, and as such our "default" when "race doesn't matter at all" is simply "white person."

However, if race doesn't matter at all, then all feedback like this is is a thought of "hey, can you make someone with a different colour skin?"  To which, if race doesn't matter at all, only changes something at the beginning of the development and wouldn't affect the organic creation of a character.


As a white person though, I have a predisposition to think of race (or other deviations from myself, really) only when I think it DOES matter.  Which is problematic, because it means that without any external influence, in a game where race doesn't matter I'll be inclined to make primarily white people.  Now, I'm just making a supposition here, but the idea that I may see things differently if I grew up rarely seeing white people in the fiction I consumed could be disappointing doesn't seem WAY out there for me.


So, if we're at a situation where you and I feel race doesn't matter and we don't care, while someone else goes "Hey, I think it'd be value added if you mixed it up a little bit," and it doesn't actually take much beyond letting art/design know "make this person different than a white person" then it seems like it's a small gain for a small cost.  You and I won't care, but someone else comes away feeling a bit better about the game.

Even then, there being no benefit or detriment to doing so doesn't strike me as a compelling reason not to.


Or are you suggesting that going to an artist and saying "draw me a man" and "draw me a black man" (or even more generally, draw me a non-white man) is a significant self-imposed restriction?

If I understand Basil's point, it's more of a criticism of shallow taste and token minoritism when you include a token minority for the primary purpose of being a token minority rather than a role in their own right (which would be legitimate).

There is a vague, nebulous point at which interacting with someone solely on the basis of them being a minority figure is condescending or even reflective of discriminatory mindsets. A point at which you're identifying someone entirely by their category, and not at all by their character, which is just as stuck in engaging in stereotyping (or, rather, how you will be stereotyped if you don't) and just as uninterested in the individual as people who discriminate against [insert category here]. You're still treating people according to their [category], rather than their personhood.

To take an example I heard about, there was a campus group I once heard about in college who was trying to fill a diversity dinner to demonstrate the hidden diversity in a college that was admittedly mostly white. Which was fair, because we had numerous (if minor) foreign students attending, along with various national minority groups. But the way one of the organizers went about it was just- they were looking for a non-white gay person because non-white gay was the next item on a checklist of groups to include. Being gay wasn't enough. Being non-white wasn't enough. Which resulted in the person making polite conversation with people (including foreigners from less than progressive cultures), angling the conversation to figure their romantic orientation, and then moving on to the next person until they found their token.

That sort of tokenism, of including a minority for the primary purpose of a quota instead of actual interest, can be insulting and patronizing in its own way. It turns an aspect of someone's identity (he is a part of [category]) into their entire identity (he is [category]). It can often be perceived as little more than a defensive smokescreen and insincerity, like the person who specifically angles to make a personal connection with a black friend and then goes 'I'm not racist, I have a black friend, but-' and then spews things that could easily be seen as needing that defense.

Smoke screening, trying to hide behind categorical defense- I don't like that in writing. The frankly sexist treatment of women in ME2 doesn't get better if you point out that, hey, at least they're including women (or, as I once heard a dev unironically claim, 'strong women'), ergo it is progressive and all right. Hyper-sexualization of combat super-heroes, T&A shots, women who's secret to happiness is being boned by Shepard's healing male sex organ- that's not what makes a reflection of inclusion and acceptance. DAO's fully-armored women, serving in the military with rank beside men and as professional spies without a question being raised, and only a foreigner even questioning how your gender impacts- that's inclusion. It doesn't take a sign of 'hey, there be women here' to include them. Even Isabella succedes in climbing out of the stereotyping despite first impressions because she climbs out of the stereotype and has a story of someone who happens to be a woman, with timeless and genderless relatable concerns of fear of emotional attachments, a struggle between responsible morality and freedom, and a struggle of self-improvement, rather than being 'hey, this is a woman who is strong and romanceable and needs you to be happy, are your loins afire yet?'

I can't speak for Basil, but for me the intent behind a minority's inclusion is the important factor, and check-box tokenism isn't enough on itself. If you include just one, I'm going to suspect that you only included one because you needed one for a check.


Which, to seemingly go against all my earlier post, isn't to say I dislike including minorities: I just want more from them than being justified solely by being a outlier for an outlier's sake, and there's a world of ways to work around it.

Best is letting them having an identity outside of being a token [category]. Cortez from ME3 was the first strictly gay male NPC of the franchise, but he was also pilot, Vega's buddy, greiving husband, committed soldier, and a friend in need. Being gay was a part of his identity, rather than being his identity.

But even if you let [category] define them, they can still serve a better role by contributing to the world-building by letting us see how the world relates to them. The Avaar barbarians of Ferelden in DAO work: they are little more than the backwoods rubes, but their presence lets us see how the world reacts to them: that the Chantry missionizes, that they are viewed with wariness and a tad of condescension by civilized Fereldans, etc. Other one-shot representative groups from DAO also did this: the Orlesian merchant girl, Tevinter slavers, etc. They were defined by their identity with a group, but in doing so tied the groups to the world.

Seeing how a minority group interacts with a larger setting is reason enough for me to include them. That could be to show that they are integrated without note (women in the Fereldan army, surface dwarves), or that they are not (city elves are not, and conscripting one is considered exceptional). But it's those tie-ins to the setting and the story that make it work, the integration.

To make up a hypothetical of how it would be done wrong (because I largely feel the Dragon Age team has done it right), rather than a one-off 'I am a gay Elf!' and then having no significance outside of that, there should be something linking it. Does this gay Elf have a significant other? Is that significant other a Human, with the social ostracism being from an interracial relationship rather than sexual orientation? Might orientation be an issue because this elf is espected to breed with another elf to continue the elven bloodline, thus raising a social issue of socially demanded genetic purity and uncomfortable questions of racism?


Or something like that. There is always nuance and personal interpretations of what is significant, and my standards are sufficiently low that 'for the sake of those who appreciate it' is generally fair enough. I just would like it to be done in such a way that it satisfies my tastes for avoiding the token test.

[Dean_the_Young]

Qistina wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Maybe your grammer is just ****ed up and you're referring to ancient history alone, but Malay isn't the only people to have had a female admiral.

Of course, if you are referring to history, only minor culture having a woman achieve that military rank doesn't actually speak to much about broader non-western female roles and rights. Certainly not compared to, say, the tradition of footbinding and other aspects in China, a much broader and more dominant culture across its history than the Malay. Even in the context of malay, a singular success story doesn't actually represent the normal status quo, any more than in any other culture. There were black slaveholders in the American South who were successful, but their success doesn't reverse the overall position of blacks in antebellum South.

Oh admiral is just one example....

In history of Perak, the king cannot be crowned until get confirmation from Tok Temong, a woman who own large part of the land.....up to today, all new kings must take vow to the tomb of Tok Temong or they will never can set a foot in the palace...

And the Oracles of Delphi were typically women. Which is irrelevant to the point at hand- women having privilaged spaces in society and accomplishments doesn't mean they are treated equally. Especially on  the broad level you were attemping to claim- the bellweathers of Eastern treatment of women would be India and China, which were the dominant civilizations of the East.

[Nightdragon8]

in all honesty... im seriously surprised no one has brought it up... "Womens hands...... DA2...."


Be horrified and sick, MWHAHAHAHAHAHA.

anyway, seriously please please BW never ever do this again....

[esper]

When it comes to body model both da:o and da2 only had one for each gender per race, with the expection of companions (and that was only true as long as the companions kept their clothes on).

I think I would like to see more body types overall on one hand, on the other hand it is not something that bother me so much, because unlike mass effect it is not horrible unbalanced.

[CannotCompute]

Well OP, I think the balance in DA is good the way it is. I don't think the Elven and Dwarven female bodies are that sexy - Elves are too slender and the Dwarves very stocky (imo).

So, for me, DA offers 50% hot bodies and I think that's a nice percentage.

Modifié par CannotCompute, 23 février 2014 - 12:05 .

[Dermain]

dan109 wrote...

I've always found the topic of "realistic" plate armor for women to be very strange. Everyone here realizes that women never actually fought in plate armor on account of being too weak to use it effectively, right? That's reality.

Wow...just...wow...

Do you know how offensive and inacurate that statement is?

dan109 wrote...
If that were true, certainly there would have been women knights and such, but that wasn't the case. There's a reason why warfare was restricted to men at the time when it was all about physical prowess.

You are incorrectly assuming that the reason there were no female knights is because they are weak, and not because of a "culture" that was very influential at the time. Said "culture" states that womens only job is in essence to be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. If women did anything that wasn't like that they were burned at the stake for being witches, or what have you.

Modifié par Myrkale, 23 février 2014 - 12:04 .