32 réponses à ce sujet

[TheLittleBird]

 On my first playthrough of Dragon Age, I wanted to make Alistair king. So, at the estate in Denerim, I walked back and forth between Alistair and Anora to arrange for a marriage. However, Alistair was not hardened for me, and eventually, Anora wouldn't have it either. 
It was a bummer at first, but after a while, I started thinking about it. And to this day I still believe firmly in my conclusion: Alistair should rather remain a Grey Warden than become king.
I know a whole lot of people think having Alistair on Ferelden's throne is the best.... ' destiny' for him. I, as you can probably tell, do not. I just don't. I think remaning a Grey Warden is a much better ending to Alistair's story in Origins than him reigning over the kingdom.

Why, you ask? I've put a lot of thought into this, but I can't think of any good reasoning behind it. Besides, there is just no going up against as strong a case as him actually becoming Ferelden's king. I mean, I do realise he will be a great king after the events of the game (maybe a little too perfect?).

Anyways, how do you guys/girls see it? Any of you that share my views on this. And have any of you actually come up with a strong case for the 'destiny' I prefer to see Alistair in?

Cheers! I'm just going to go roast a nug. You can join in if you want.

[Jaison1986]

So, you say he should stay an warden but then have no arguments to back it up? That's... not very convincing.

I do prefer to make him king because I think he makes an good match for Anora politically speaking. She is an competent politician, but severaly lacks when it comes to her people skills. It especially shows in the ending slide. If Anora rules alone, the alienage is almost destroyed during a riot when the elves complain about their civil rights, while if Alistair rules with her, he puts an elf to help at the court, thus considerably improving their life style. He can still do some good even if unhardened. And you can actually marry him to Anora even if his personality is not hardened.

[TheLittleBird]

Jaison1986 wrote...

So, you say he should stay an warden but then have no arguments to back it up? That's... not very convincing.

I do prefer to make him king because I think he makes an good match for Anora politically speaking. She is an competent politician, but severaly lacks when it comes to her people skills. It especially shows in the ending slide. If Anora rules alone, the alienage is almost destroyed during a riot when the elves complain about their civil rights, while if Alistair rules with her, he puts an elf to help at the court, thus considerably improving their life style. He can still do some good even if unhardened. And you can actually marry him to Anora even if his personality is not hardened.

To refer to that last part: yes I know, but certain actions(don't ask what, it's been a long time since my first playthrough. Though I think he executed Loghain? Not sure.) prevented that.

Oh, and yeah, the whole point of this thread was to see whether others shared my view and if anyone had actually come up with arguments to choose Grey Warden over King of Ferelden

[DarthGizka]

TheLittleBird wrote...

Oh, and yeah, the whole point of this thread was to see whether others shared my view and if anyone had actually come up with arguments to choose Grey Warden over King of Ferelden

Surely you must have found out in one of your playthroughs what stuff Alistair is really made of? Just refuse to give him his toy and see the mask drop.

The rabbits that the designers pull out of their hats during the epilogue are neither here nor there.

[Mike3207]

All things being equal, if it were to be asked-"Would you prefer that Alistair remain a Warden rather than be King-no subconditions-" I'd be good with that.

Unfortunately, you can't have Alistair remain a Warden without accepting Loghain's murder, and that's too high a price for me. In that case, I'll accept him being a drunk.

Modifié par Mike Smith, 23 février 2014 - 01:34 .

[caradoc2000]

IMO, Alistair would rather remain GW - then again life is rarely simple.

[Lavaeolus]

Unhardened Alistair makes for a pretty awful king, constantly abandoning court to go get drunk with the commoners. It's also something he's never wanted, and hell when it comes up he's pretty much "Oh, just let Anora have it". So, yeah, there's a strong case for not crowning him right there. Even hardened Alistair has these faults to a degree -- he's still pretty much a newbie to court and only recently wanting it. Plus, he might be moreorless infertile, which might provide a few problems down the line. 'Course, Anora might be barren, so, uh... maybe they cancel out?

Personally, married him off to Anora. They make a good enough match, remove chance of any civil wars being made in either's name, and in my case it prevented him from going on to live life in Kirkwall's tavern.

[wiccame]

I think he is better off as a warden. Reasons being, its what he prefers not to mention he has been pushed, pulled, hidden and ignored by the 'royal' circle all his life. He has especially been treated badly by Eamon, sure Eamon took him in as a baby, but gave him no quality of life for it. Made to sleep in stables, treated like nothing more than a servant and made every attempt to pretend like he doesn't exist, as a royal. Now, the country is in chaos and there is no more royals left to take over and suddenly Alistair has a duty to perfom, Bullpoop to that.

Sadly though as I don't like seeing him being walked over I quite often harden him and he is all too willing to take the throne, but he also does a good job of it. He is compassionate, has the background that will make him more in tune with the needs of the normal people, which makes him popular. And he is a good warrior and willing to fight so he would be very active.
Marry him off to a Cousland who has had the upbringing to lead and knowledge that will come in handy to rule and he wont have to worry too much on that side.

[TheLittleBird]

Mike Smith wrote...
Unfortunately, you can't have Alistair remain a Warden without accepting Loghain's murder, and that's too high a price for me. In that case, I'll accept him being a drunk.

Well, I'm one who can't really not kill Loghain. I mean, I know how he is, deep inside, a good man, a hero fallen from grace, but the game never really made that point come across as much as I'd like. From a roleplaying standpoint, my same Warden that would want to see Alistair remain a Grey Warden and Anora claim the throne, would also kill Loghain.
To add to my views on this matter: I also don't see Alistair marrying Anora. Yeah, I know she is ,strategically speaking, a perfect match for him, but to me (again, from a roleplaying perspective: i.e., without information I as a player receive but my character doesn't) I can see Anora ruling on her own just fine (not counting the epilogue slide on her reign).

Modifié par TheLittleBird, 23 février 2014 - 01:56 .

[Jilinthar]

I'm all for Alistair remaining a Grey Warden, too. Like a couple others already said, he never wanted to be king and isn't used to court life. Being a Grey Warden is something he identifies with and loves, maybe the only thing that's really "his" in his life. Would seem pretty awful to take that away from him in order to replace it with something he both hates and might not be very good at (lots of pressure, see bullying remarks at Landmseet about "puppet", Anora's opinion etc).

He does a good job leading people around in the Korcari Wilds without getting lost and having pants on. But a life at court, with all those Orlesian style intrigues and assassins at every corner etc... I don't know, it just breaks my heart to imagine poor Alistair with his gentle nature and innocence in the middle of all that.

Also after reading The Stolen Throne and The Calling, I see a lot of parallels between him and Maric, personality-wise. And if Alistair is actually the child mentioned at the end of The Calling, then him ending up as king is pretty much the opposite of what his father wanted and wished for him... kinda tragic.

Modifié par Jilinthar, 23 février 2014 - 03:40 .

[Jaison1986]

Another reason I prefer to see Alistair as king instead of an warden is because I feel he is living an delusion. He finds it a great honor, and the best thing that could have happened to him, but an bugged dialogue with him in Ostagar reveals that he hated his joining because of how horrible it was and how he will never forget it. It's almost like an coping mechanic. Alistair can't bring himself to see the horrible implications of being an warden. You can notice that if you do things that Grey wardens are supposed to do, such as preserving the anvil, killing Connor, recruiting Loghain, all sacrifies for the greater good, and all of these things highly upset Alistair. I think Alistair just never got to see the Grey wardens for their true colors, and he would just become bitter with the order over time.

[Mike3207]

TheLittleBird wrote...

Mike Smith wrote...
Unfortunately, you can't have Alistair remain a Warden without accepting Loghain's murder, and that's too high a price for me. In that case, I'll accept him being a drunk.

Well, I'm one who can't really not kill Loghain. I mean, I know how he is, deep inside, a good man, a hero fallen from grace, but the game never really made that point come across as much as I'd like. From a roleplaying standpoint, my same Warden that would want to see Alistair remain a Grey Warden and Anora claim the throne, would also kill Loghain.
To add to my views on this matter: I also don't see Alistair marrying Anora. Yeah, I know she is ,strategically speaking, a perfect match for him, but to me (again, from a roleplaying perspective: i.e., without information I as a player receive but my character doesn't) I can see Anora ruling on her own just fine (not counting the epilogue slide on her reign).

And that's fair enough-my point simply is that not everyone will make that choice. On a Cousland run I'll have them go for the throne, otherwise I'll spare Loghain and have a hardened alistiar marry Anora. I simply don't think it's worth it to give in to Alistair's tantrum at the Landsmeet.

Modifié par Mike Smith, 23 février 2014 - 06:42 .

[sylvanaerie]

I prefer to leave him as a Warden.  I have made him king, and have married him to Anora to have them both rule, but frankly I prefer leaving Anora in charge, and Alistair in the wardens.  She is trained for it, she wants it (he doesn't) and I feel the best person for the job is Anora.  Unless I'm a Queen Cousland or on a Surana or Amell, I put Anora on the throne and keep Alistair in the wardens.  Everyone is happy with this arrangement.  Except maybe Eamon, who pisses me off.

[Shadow Fox]

I keep him as a Warden and let Anora rule.

[TheLittleBird]

I prefer to leave him as a Warden. I have made him king, and have married him to Anora to have them both rule, but frankly I prefer leaving Anora in charge, and Alistair in the wardens. She is trained for it, she wants it (he doesn't) and I feel the best person for the job is Anora. Unless I'm a Queen Cousland or on a Surana or Amell, I put Anora on the throne and keep Alistair in the wardens. Everyone is happy with this arrangement. Except maybe Eamon, who pisses me off.

Yeah, Eamon can easily ****** me off as well. Hearing about Alistair's childhood hasn't exactly shed a positive light on the arl, and he should really just respect Alistair's wishes and my judgment.

[Toasted Llama]

I've kept Alistair with the Wardens in my original playthrough, but I began to feel really guilty for some reason. I mean, it's what Alistair himself wants, but Eamon's primary reasons for the Landsmeet was to put Alistiar on the throne.

 

Stabbing Loghain to death and tell everyone to continue business as usual with Anora on the throne gave me the feeling the Landsmeet was utterly useless.

 

I know it's actually quite the opposite, but I can't seem to shake off the feeling; so most of my playthroughs Alistair is either made king, drunk or executed/sacrificed.

 

Have yet to think of a Warden that would have reasons to keep him as a Warden. And the 3 that romanced him all have their reasons not to: Cousland marries him (this is almost a no-brainer), my Dalish doesn't want to interfere too much with human politics and doesn't know any better/thinks he can make a great king/believes Arl Eamon and my Surana, who was doomed to die from the start because of reasons, believes that Alistair would be able to cope with her death a lot easier as King and thinks that he will make the lives of the circle mages better.

[Shadow Fox]

I've kept Alistair with the Wardens in my original playthrough, but I began to feel really guilty for some reason. I mean, it's what Alistair himself wants, but Eamon's primary reasons for the Landsmeet was to put Alistiar on the throne.

 

Stabbing Loghain to death and tell everyone to continue business as usual with Anora on the throne gave me the feeling the Landsmeet was utterly useless.

 

I know it's actually quite the opposite, but I can't seem to shake off the feeling; so most of my playthroughs Alistair is either made king, drunk or executed/sacrificed.

 

Have yet to think of a Warden that would have reasons to keep him as a Warden. And the 3 that romanced him all have their reasons not to: Cousland marries him (this is almost a no-brainer), my Dalish doesn't want to interfere too much with human politics and doesn't know any better/thinks he can make a great king/believes Arl Eamon and my Surana, who was doomed to die from the start because of reasons, believes that Alistair would be able to cope with her death a lot easier as King and thinks that he will make the lives of the circle mages better.

Well there's the putting an unknown,unwilling and unprepared King on the throne in a time of crisis thing and also the uncomfortable feeling of proving Loghain right by putting one or two Wardens on the throne and backstabbing Anora if she supports you after killing her dad.

[Toasted Llama]

Well there's the putting an unknown,unwilling and unprepared King on the throne in a time of crisis thing and also the uncomfortable feeling of proving Loghain right by putting one or two Wardens on the throne and backstabbing Anora if she supports you after killing her dad.

I never felt bad about that for some reason...

[Aurelet]

I always feel bad putting Anora on the Throne alone when she gives the Elves another Smack down, just because they are starving.

[cJohnOne]

King him!  If you really care what Alistair wants and who doesn't than you'd leave him as a Warden but I thought he'd make a great king so now I'm thinking that I want him to be king.

[ShadowLordXII]

Hardened Alistair is better off as king and Unhardened Alistair is better off as a warden

[TheLittleBird]

Hardened Alistair is better off as king and Unhardened Alistair is better off as a warden

 

Well, I always look at it from a roleplaying perspective (i,.e. I don't know whether or not he'll be a good king). And even a hardened Alistair objects to being King. Only Eamon seems to support the case. Pre-landsmeet, that is.

[David]

Alistair does not need to be hardened to be made King. I always set him up with Anora.

 

When I play through this game, I usually play through the exact same way...with minor changes to refine the story that is told.

 

Alistair becoming King is, in my opinion, how that part of the story is meant to be told. (again, that is just my opinion)

[TheLittleBird]

Alistair does not need to be hardened to be made King. I always set him up with Anora.

 

When I play through this game, I usually play through the exact same way...with minor changes to refine the story that is told.

 

Alistair becoming King is, in my opinion, how that part of the story is meant to be told. (again, that is just my opinion)

 

Still, if he isn't hardened, he'll be a lousy king.

[Shadow Fox]

Still, if he isn't hardened, he'll be a lousy king.

Or a puppet.