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[Mistic]

Do you think there is a chance to witness an Arlathvhen in Inquisition?

[Divine Justinia V]

Do you think there is a chance to witness an Arlathvhen in Inquisition?

At this point, I kind of think anything has at least a small possibility. Likelihood, on the otherhand, not so much.

But I'd love the opportunity!

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't see any lore stating that the Dalish are poorly armed or poorly trained (and Ariane was able to defeat a templar who threatened the clan, so I highly doubt such an assertion from you), and we have next to no information about the possible rebels from the Alienage.

And what exactly is the point of your post? I get the feeling you're trying to change my mind about preferring to aid the elves over the factions fighting for Orlais. You're not going to persuade me to think that I should want to help a morally abhorrent empire like Orlais (or even the Chantry).

 

I was referring mainly to the City Elves being poorly armed and trained. The Dalish are better trained than city elves but in both cases, they still aren't a professional army from a strong nation state like the Emerald Knights. And that's even assuming that the enough Dalish even want to go to war with Orlais during the crisis and enough of those that do even want to help city elves. Both of which strike me as unlikely.

 

My point is that your preference of who you want to help is irrelevant in terms of actually being able to help them in the game. The central premise of the franchise isn't about liberating everyone's personal favorite downtrodden masses from the evils of the Chantry. The fact is you may have to choose to help restore the Orlesian Empire regardless of how you feel about it because that's the only practical solution to the Veil Tears.

[LobselVith8]

I was referring mainly to the City Elves being poorly armed and trained. The Dalish are better trained than city elves but in both cases, they still aren't a professional army from a strong nation state like the Emerald Knights. And that's even assuming that the enough Dalish even want to go to war with Orlais during the crisis and enough of those that do even want to help city elves. Both of which strike me as unlikely.

 

I don't think we have sufficient enough information about the possible rebel elves from the Alienages to say whether or not they are poorly trained or poorly armed; there's too little information at this point in time. And if an Arlathvhen is taking place in the Dales (which was mentioned to take place "soon" a few times in Dragon Age II, so I think it's possible) then I can see the Dalish playing a role in this "elven rebellion". With the Mage-Templar War raging on across the width and breadth of Thedas (which would likely include Orlais, since Circles of Magi are located in the nation) and a civil war taking place, I think now would be the best time for the elves to make their move.

 

 

My point is that your preference of who you want to help is irrelevant in terms of actually being able to help them in the game. The central premise of the franchise isn't about liberating everyone's personal favorite downtrodden masses from the evils of the Chantry. The fact is you may have to choose to help restore the Orlesian Empire regardless of how you feel about it because that's the only practical solution to the Veil Tears.

 

This is a thread about a Dalish mage protagonist; I don't see it as irrelevant to express a desire to want to help the downtrodden elves if I'm playing Inquisition with a protagonist of the People (the Elvhen).

 

Frankly, having played previously as two Ferelden protagonists from a nation that was only liberated from Orlesian occupation roughly 30 years prior, I'm not exactly inclined to want to help an expansionist empire that has high ranking members of the nobility talking about reclaiming their "former province". That's precisely why I've expressed an interest in helping the elves over Celene or Gaspard.

[Mistic]

I don't think we have sufficient enough information about the possible rebel elves from the Alienages to say whether or not they are poorly trained or poorly armed; there's too little information at this point in time. And if an Arlathvhen is taking place in the Dales (which was mentioned to take place "soon" a few times in Dragon Age II, so I think it's possible) then I can see the Dalish playing a role in this "elven rebellion".

 

So there is a distinct possibility we may see the Arlathvhen in Inquisition, isn't there? Ok, maybe is wishful thinking, but I think it would be interesting if it happened. Maybe the ideal place to make these "big decisions" Bioware love so much, like the Landsmeet or Orzammar's Assembly. For example, a voting among the clans to take part in the elven rebellion or not.

 

Because there may be more solutions. What if the Dalish are offered lands if they help the Inquisitor's chosen candidate for the Orlesian throne? Or what if the price was abandoning the City Elves in exchange of a stable dominion and the gratitude of the new (or old) Orlesian ruler? What would a Dalish Inquisitor do in that hypothetical situation?

[BlueMagitek]

The Dalish Clans are basically nations unto themselves; one Dalish clanmember is going to be completely different from the other in how they see the world, their ancestry & their relationships with humans, so it really sort of just depends.

 

I would like to see them acknowledge that they seem to be missing two clans.  How odd.

[LobselVith8]

So there is a distinct possibility we may see the Arlathvhen in Inquisition, isn't there? Ok, maybe is wishful thinking, but I think it would be interesting if it happened. Maybe the ideal place to make these "big decisions" Bioware love so much, like the Landsmeet or Orzammar's Assembly. For example, a voting among the clans to take part in the elven rebellion or not.

 

I don't think it's wishful thinking. It was mentioned a few times in the narrative of Dragon Age II, and there's at least one piece of Inquisition artwork that features a gathering of Dalish elves. I certainly think an Arlathvhen is possible. I'd love to see how the assembled clans respond to a Dalish protagonist leading the fight against the veil tears.

 

 

Because there may be more solutions. What if the Dalish are offered lands if they help the Inquisitor's chosen candidate for the Orlesian throne? Or what if the price was abandoning the City Elves in exchange of a stable dominion and the gratitude of the new (or old) Orlesian ruler? What would a Dalish Inquisitor do in that hypothetical situation?

 

You mean Celene offering the Dalish back the Dales in exchange for their aid in helping her stop Gaspard's coup, as one example? I suppose that's possible, but I'd rather get into the heart of the myriad of elven perspectives and their plight as a fractured people, instead of relegating them to acting as a helper for one of the two human candidates. I'm a little tired of the elven point of view getting lost in favor of the human perspective.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Even for a Dalish protagonist there are practical considerations that would be unavoidable. The scope of the game is basically all of Orlais and Ferelden, which means geographically and demographically Orlais is the biggest consideration on the Inquisitor's plate. Going in the an attitude of "Demons are destroying everything and I'm only helping the tiny elf minority, screw the rest" is ridiculous.

[Mistic]

I don't think it's wishful thinking. It was mentioned a few times in the narrative of Dragon Age II, and there's at least one piece of Inquisition artwork that features a gathering of Dalish elves. I certainly think an Arlathvhen is possible. I'd love to see how the assembled clans respond to a Dalish protagonist leading the fight against the veil tears.

 

A piece of artwork? I have to see that! And yes, if the protagonist is a Dalish Mage (the only semi-confirmed Dalish origin we have so far), it would be interesting to check their reaction. Could the Inquisitor be considered a clan's representative?

 

You mean Celene offering the Dalish back the Dales in exchange for their aid in helping her stop Gaspard's coup, as one example? I suppose that's possible, but I'd rather get into the heart of the myriad of elven perspectives and their plight as a fractured people, instead of relegating them to acting as a helper for one of the two human candidates. I'm a little tired of the elven point of view getting lost in favor of the human perspective.

 

As much as I love elven lore, even I can't find fault in giving preference to the human viewpoint since they are the most populous, powerful and influential race in Thedas.

 

But I was thinking about another dilemma. If the price to achieve the Dalish dream is to screw the City Elves, would a Dalish Inquisitor do it? Much has been said about the Elves' plight, but City Elves and Dalish Elves are very different from each other. Just like the epilogues in DA:O, maybe you thought you have helped to create a nice place for all elves to live, only to find out later that it has imploded in a bitter civil war between Dalish and City Elves.

 

I would like to see them acknowledge that they seem to be missing two clans.  How odd.

 

Well, both of them can survive too. Or there may be even three missing clans, if the Dalish Inquisitor happens to lose his or her clan in the background story.

[LobselVith8]

A piece of artwork? I have to see that! And yes, if the protagonist is a Dalish Mage (the only semi-confirmed Dalish origin we have so far), it would be interesting to check their reaction. Could the Inquisitor be considered a clan's representative?

 

You can see one of the pieces here. It's possible the Dalish protagonist could be one of the representatives of the peace conference, if the leaked survey a while back is still indicative of the "origin story" for Inquisition. Perhaps the elven mage is the clan's Keeper or the First. I'm still wondering why the Dalish would be called for peace talks.

 

As much as I love elven lore, even I can't find fault in giving preference to the human viewpoint since they are the most populous, powerful and influential race in Thedas.

 

I'm hoping that isn't the case with Inquisition. It would be rather unfortunate if the elven point of view gets lost in all the noise.

 

But I was thinking about another dilemma. If the price to achieve the Dalish dream is to screw the City Elves, would a Dalish Inquisitor do it? Much has been said about the Elves' plight, but City Elves and Dalish Elves are very different from each other. Just like the epilogues in DA:O, maybe you thought you have helped to create a nice place for all elves to live, only to find out later that it has imploded in a bitter civil war between Dalish and City Elves.

 

I hope it's possible to help them both, since part of the Dalish dream is to give their Alienage counterparts a place where they can be more than servants for human lords. I find the fate of the Alienage elves rather abhorrent, given the purges and the institutionalized racism.

[Mistic]

You can see one of the pieces here. It's possible the Dalish protagonist could be one of the representatives of the peace conference, if the leaked survey a while back is still indicative of the "origin story" for Inquisition. Perhaps the elven mage is the clan's Keeper or the First. I'm still wondering why the Dalish would be called for peace talks.

 

Nice! There's some artwork I haven't seen before.

 

If the peace conference origin story for everyone is true, it would make sense if it's related to the Arlathvhen and the elven rebellion. I've just checked it in the wikia and Fenris says there will be one in Halamshiral, the former capital of the Dales. Since you don't have to be a genius to feel that can be trouble, a peace conference would be the ideal place to say "Please, don't make trouble, do your gathering in peace and, if you don't mind, you could help us with this problem that can threaten the whole world". And then everything blows up.

 

Of course, that origin story may have been scrapped, so who knows.

 

I hope it's possible to help them both, since part of the Dalish dream is to give their Alienage counterparts a place where they can be more than servants for human lords. I find the fate of the Alienage elves rather abhorrent, given the purges and the institutionalized racism.

 

But see? That's beginning to ask for trouble. Why should be the Dalish the ones "to give" anything? Why not under the City Elves' conditions? What if the City Elves want to make the Chantry the official religion, since most of them are Andrastian? What will happen then? Dalish culture is not the only Elven culture around. Think of Fenris.

 

[LobselVith8]

Nice! There's some artwork I haven't seen before.

 

If the peace conference origin story for everyone is true, it would make sense if it's related to the Arlathvhen and the elven rebellion. I've just checked it in the wikia and Fenris says there will be one in Halamshiral, the former capital of the Dales. Since you don't have to be a genius to feel that can be trouble, a peace conference would be the ideal place to say "Please, don't make trouble, do your gathering in peace and, if you don't mind, you could help us with this problem that can threaten the whole world". And then everything blows up.

 

Of course, that origin story may have been scrapped, so who knows.

 

True, although there have been some allusions to a cataclysm that only the Inquisitor seems to survive, so I don't think it might have been entirely scrapped.

 

 

But see? That's beginning to ask for trouble. Why should be the Dalish the ones "to give" anything? Why not under the City Elves' conditions? What if the City Elves want to make the Chantry the official religion, since most of them are Andrastian? What will happen then? Dalish culture is not the only Elven culture around. Think of Fenris.

 

Considering that the Andrastian faith pushes the idea that everyone needs to believe in the Maker in order for the Maker to return to the world (and views non-Andrastians as 'heathens'), I see that as asking for trouble. Especially when factored with the reality that the Dalish have free mages among their people, and their view of magic as a gift that should be used, rather than shelved away.

 

I'm aware of the multiple cultures of elves outside the Dalish. I'm also aware of what happens when the Chantry has power. As Sir JK once pointed out when I brought up the possibility of an independent Dales serving as a mecca for the elves: "It's a guess of mine that by far the most elves are city elves, and that the core bulk of these are in nations following the Chant of Light (and a significant amount in the Imperial Chantry). These elves are still going to be massively attracted by the land where all elves are rich and free. But they're all speaking different languages (with a touch of elven), coming from different cultures and with different backgrounds."

 

Sir JK added: "We're going to have the lavish and extravagant Orlesian elves, the death-inspired Nevarran elves, devout Ander elves, freeminded Fereldan elves, diverse Marcher elves, trading Antivan elves and a handful of Rivaini elves. They're all going to have absorbed values and such from their "host"-cultures. They're going to share the most fundamental things such as hahrens and Vhenadhals of course."

[EmperorSahlertz]

If the City Elves wants to remain Andrastian then they of coruse will have to undergo forced re-education to better align with the Dalish master race.

[LobselVith8]

If the City Elves wants to remain Andrastian then they of coruse will have to undergo forced re-education to better align with the Dalish master race.

 

I realize that you favor the Chantry and the templars, but the reality is that their insistence on converting the unaffiliated is going to be a serious issue for those who don't want to be converted to the Andrastian faith, especially if the Chantry is the dominant religion of a region that's supposed to house Andrastian elves and non-Andrastian elves.

[Xilizhra]

Even for a Dalish protagonist there are practical considerations that would be unavoidable. The scope of the game is basically all of Orlais and Ferelden, which means geographically and demographically Orlais is the biggest consideration on the Inquisitor's plate. Going in the an attitude of "Demons are destroying everything and I'm only helping the tiny elf minority, screw the rest" is ridiculous.

Then we rebuild Orlais, if possible, as we see fit, and press as much influence on their government as possible. If it's needed to remain to keep the world intact, so be it, but it should be able to be on our terms.

 

Dales serving as a mecca for the elves

Lobsel, I love you, but please stop frickin' saying this. Mecca is a location of pilgrimage, religiously speaking, but not residence; you go there and you stay temporarily to pay your respects, then leave. Sure, people live in it, but there's no religious or cultural imperative to do so. I think you're thinking of something more akin to the Jewish Promised Land (hardly surprising, given the strong parallels between city elves and European Jews).

 

 

If the City Elves wants to remain Andrastian then they of coruse will have to undergo forced re-education to better align with the Dalish master race.

They can stay Andrastian all they want, provided they don't interfere with Dalish religion, don't try to convert anyone, and don't try to set up a new Circle system.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I realize that you favor the Chantry and the templars, but the reality is that their insistence on converting the unaffiliated is going to be a serious issue for those who don't want to be converted to the Andrastian faith, especially if the Chantry is the dominant religion of a region that's supposed to house Andrastian elves and non-Andrastian elves.

And so the Dalish master race will set forth in a tide of conversion, to make sure that no one else ever again try to convert another. How quaint.

[Xilizhra]

And so the Dalish master race will set forth in a tide of conversion, to make sure that no one else ever again try to convert another. How quaint.

Unnecessary. All we have to is what I mentioned prior.

[LobselVith8]

Lobsel, I love you, but please stop frickin' saying this. Mecca is a location of pilgrimage, religiously speaking, but not residence; you go there and you stay temporarily to pay your respects, then leave. Sure, people live in it, but there's no religious or cultural imperative to do so. I think you're thinking of something more akin to the Jewish Promised Land (hardly surprising, given the strong parallels between city elves and European Jews).

 

That's not the only definition for the word. Multiple sources address one of it's definitions as a "place that attracts people of a particular group or with a particular interest". Even the Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary makes this particular definition clear: "2 (usually mecca) a place that many people like to visit, especially for a particular reason: The coast is a mecca for tourists."

[Xilizhra]

 

That's not the only definition for the word. Multiple sources address one of it's definitions as a "place that attracts people of a particular group or with a particular interest". Even the Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary makes this particular definition clear: "2 (usually mecca) a place that many people like to visit, especially for a particular reason: The coast is a mecca for tourists."

 

True, but it's defined as more of a place to visit, even there, than as a place to live. If you did mean that they were just going to visit there primarily, then that's fine and I apologize for my vocabulary Nazi outburst.

[LobselVith8]

True, but it's defined as more of a place to visit, even there, than as a place to live. If you did mean that they were just going to visit there primarily, then that's fine and I apologize for my vocabulary Nazi outburst.

 

What would you prefer I use to refer to a new homeland for the Elvhen - a beacon of hope for elves all across Thedas, a place where they can live outside the racism and persecution that they and their ancestors have faced for centuries?

[Xilizhra]

What would you prefer I use to refer to a new homeland for the Elvhen - a beacon of hope for elves all across Thedas, a place where they can live outside the racism and persecution that they and their ancestors have faced for centuries?

Israel? Though that might be too politically charged. Promised Land would also work. Or Zion.

[LobselVith8]

Israel? Though that might be too politically charged. Promised Land would also work. Or Zion.

 

I think Israel would be too politically charged, given the real world implications. Zion could be a bit charged as well for some. Maybe a word that isn't associated with a real world counterpart for this fictional elven haven.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What would you prefer I use to refer to a new homeland for the Elvhen - a beacon of hope for elves all across Thedas, a place where they can live outside the racism and persecution that they and their ancestors have faced for centuries?

Valhalla?

 

It even has Halla in it. 

[Xilizhra]

I think Israel would be too politically charged, given the real world implications. Zion could be a bit charged as well for some. Maybe a word that isn't associated with a real world counterpart for this fictional elven haven.

Currently, I'm looking through the elven language list for an idea. You dislike Promised Land?

[LobselVith8]

Valhalla?

 

It even has Halla in it. 

 

Reminds me of the conspiracy in Max Payne. 

 

 

Currently, I'm looking through the elven language list for an idea. You dislike Promised Land?

 

I don't dislike it, I was just wondering if there was a word that was less 'charged' with real world implications is all.