127 réponses à ce sujet

[Iamoncewas]

TheGuv wrote...

Just as a question, how many people talking about this are physicists?

I've already stated that I am not a physicists

Not being smart! I was just sayin not trying flame

Modifié par Iamoncewas, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:52 .

[Chained_Creator]

TheGuv wrote...

Just as a question, how many people talking about this are physicists?

I'm not, I'm a computer science student specializing in physics and artificial intelligence. Not that I've done anything with physics, yet. Have to finish my current Math class before I can move onto it.

[Taurmaim]

adam_grif wrote...
Strictly speaking, at zero mass it would not be interacting with gravity at all

Not exactly true.  Since gravity is actually an effect from the curvature of space-time, even massless particles like photons are effected by gravitational fields.   Are you meaning that at zero mass it has no gravity of its own?

[EvilSnowy]

What people don't know is that bioware has a team of the worlds top physicist who actually verify that everything in mass effect is possible and also explain how things work. Soon we'll have bioware brand space shuttles with ftl drives and guns with near unlimited ammo.

Let's face it, mass effect physics is not real physics it's convenient scifi physics and all the lore is simply imaginary

[Hunt3rW0lf]

TheGuv wrote...

Just as a question, how many people talking about this are physicists?

I'm in training  I'm doing a Pure Physics Degree, hoping to get into Astrophysics research or the Space Industry.

Taurmaim wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
Strictly speaking, at zero mass it would not be interacting with gravity at all

Not exactly true.  Since gravity is actually an effect from the curvature of space-time, even massless particles like photons are effected by gravitational fields.   Are you meaning that at zero mass it has no gravity of its own?

In a sense he's partially right, the mass wouldn't be what's interacting with gravity, rather the space around it.

EvilSnowy wrote...

What people don't know is that bioware has a team of the worlds top physicist who actually verify that everything in mass effect is possible and also explain how things work. Soon we'll have bioware brand space shuttles with ftl drives and guns with near unlimited ammo.

Let's face it, mass effect physics is not real physics it's convenient scifi physics and all the lore is simply imaginary 

I believe Bioware are the favourites for building and placing this satellite... : http://news.bbc.co.u...ech/8467472.stm


In all seriousness Bioware have done a good job in making feasible Sci-fi Physics, a lot of physical concepts developed in Sci-fi are regarded as possibilities, if they make sense why squash a theory?

Modifié par Hunt3rW0lf, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:08 .

[Chained_Creator]

Taurmaim wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
Strictly speaking, at zero mass it would not be interacting with gravity at all

Not exactly true.  Since gravity is actually an effect from the curvature of space-time, even massless particles like photons are effected by gravitational fields.   Are you meaning that at zero mass it has no gravity of its own?

So would that be how they manage to do FTL travel? Seeing as the Mass Effect relay creates a corridor in space-time where there is no mass, and thus no gravity?

[Taurmaim]

Hunt3rW0lf wrote...

In a sense he's partially right, the mass wouldn't be what's interacting with gravity, rather the space around it.

Okay, fair enough.   

[Hunt3rW0lf]

Chained_Creator wrote...

Taurmaim wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
Strictly speaking, at zero mass it would not be interacting with gravity at all

Not exactly true.  Since gravity is actually an effect from the curvature of space-time, even massless particles like photons are effected by gravitational fields.   Are you meaning that at zero mass it has no gravity of its own?

So would that be how they manage to do FTL travel? Seeing as the Mass Effect relay creates a corridor in space-time where there is no mass, and thus no gravity?

It would be a decent guess, although gravitational fields effect objects at an infinite distance so you'd have to prove that removing all mass in an area would prevent gravitons from effecting the area.

[Taurmaim]

Chained_Creator wrote...
So would that be how they manage to do FTL travel? Seeing as the Mass Effect relay creates a corridor in space-time where there is no mass, and thus no gravity?

No, since any object of mass is still restricted to moving under the speed of light.  The mass relay would have to somehow give the object imaginary mass in order to achieve FTL travel (essentially, turn it into a tachyon).  Now I have no idea if mass relays or eezo drive cores are capable of this, but the codex entries do not hint at it.  It seems more reasonable to me that drive cores and mass relays create something more akin to "warp bubbles" then just massless corridors.  But really, no true indication in codex entries.  If they do simply reduce mass, that's a huge oversight, since even .0000000000000000000000000001 nanograms couldn't reach the speed of light.

[Iamoncewas]

EvilSnowy wrote...

What people don't know is that bioware has a team of the worlds top physicist who actually verify that everything in mass effect is possible and also explain how things work. Soon we'll have bioware brand space shuttles with ftl drives and guns with near unlimited ammo.

Let's face it, mass effect physics is not real physics it's convenient scifi physics and all the lore is simply imaginary

THIS

[Chained_Creator]

Taurmaim wrote...
No, since any object of mass is still restricted to moving under the speed of light.  The mass relay would have to somehow give the object imaginary mass in order to achieve FTL travel (essentially, turn it into a tachyon).  Now I have no idea if mass relays or eezo drive cores are capable of this, but the codex entries do not hint at it.  It seems more reasonable to me that drive cores and mass relays create something more akin to "warp bubbles" then just massless corridors.  But really, no true indication in codex entries.  If they do simply reduce mass, that's a huge oversight, since even .0000000000000000000000000001 nanograms couldn't reach the speed of light.

I was going from what the Mass Effect Wiki has on Mass Relays. I don't have access to the Codex, currently, unless it's posted somewhere on the Internert. (Sorry.)

And, from what I read, they aren't 'reducing mass', they are making mass 'non-existant'. Litereally there is no mass there. (Does reason really factor into Sci-fi in the first place? ._.) (Also, not trying to sound snappish or offensive, just asking questions as they come to mind.)

Hunt3rW0lf wrote...
It would be a decent guess, although
gravitational fields effect objects at an infinite distance so you'd
have to prove that removing all mass in an area would prevent gravitons
from effecting the area.

Depends on how they 'define' the corridor, I suppose.

[Archie591]

I feel like I'm Jack O'Neill from Stargate listening to Samantha Carter... I probably look something like this right now:




 But it's fun to read. I'm not sure I'd understand any better if it were in my native language... but this definitely pushes my English skills to the limit.

[Hunt3rW0lf]

The image of the Normandy entering seems to suggest that the space is bent in the corridor. There is the alternative that the application of the Energy from the E-0 core creates a temporary new dimension between the two points, this however goes into the world of Branes and  Passages all of which I know little about.

[TuringPoint]

Hunt3rW0lf wrote...

However it does make an interesting mental and theoretical exercise and could relate to future advances in Physics (Dark Energy/Matter, Gravity, Special Relativity, Unified Model etc.)

But who knows anything about that?  Who's even trying to use their knowledge of such things?

[Hunt3rW0lf]

 Well Dark Energy is quite a popular topic amongst Physicists at the moment, with stuff like this being built: http://news.cnet.com...10435222-1.html


And Special Relativity and Gravity have been heavily studied (although not by me, I haven't covered them much but am starting a unit this semester).

And the unified theory is sort of the light at the end of the tunnel for Physicists, all are trying to find it but it always moves just out of reach!

Modifié par Hunt3rW0lf, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:22 .

[Chained_Creator]

Alocormin wrote...

Hunt3rW0lf wrote...

However it does make an interesting mental and theoretical exercise and could relate to future advances in Physics (Dark Energy/Matter, Gravity, Special Relativity, Unified Model etc.)

But who knows anything about that?  Who's even trying to use their knowledge of such things?

I don't know, but my final exam for my current Math class is one problem that's supposed to take at least 48 pages of paper to solve. We're killing trees, man. Unless I get a high enough grade to skip it.

[Taurmaim]

Chained_Creator wrote...

I was going from what the Mass Effect Wiki has on Mass Relays. I don't have access to the Codex, currently, unless it's posted somewhere on the Internert. (Sorry.)

And, from what I read, they aren't 'reducing mass', they are making mass 'non-existant'. Litereally there is no mass there. (Does reason really factor into Sci-fi in the first place? ._.) (Also, not trying to sound snappish or offensive, just asking questions as they come to mind.)

Even if the mass was non-existant, they'd still be limitted to travelling at c, which would take a long time going across the galaxy.  It would be instant for the crew (time dilation effects), but they'd arrive years after they left, depending on the distance.  Meaning that can't possibly be the true mechanism.

A possibility is the massless corridor uses bent spacetime, but even so, it would have have some really weird effects to attain near instantaneous travel between thousands of light-years apart points.

[TheDoublecross]

While playing the game, it always seemed to me that the most logical way the technology works is by warping space time in front of the ship traveling so that it may travel at approaching light speeds. We know it would take infinite energy for a ship or even a molecule to travel at the speed of light, in fact the fastest we have ever gotten a molecule to travel is .99 the speed of light. Putting more energy into this would only increase the mass and not increase the speed anymore.

So it is pretty clear that it would be impossible to reduce the mass of anything so that it could travel faster that the speed of light. Even if the effective mass is reduced to say a couple molecules, which is impossible, the mass would increase the faster it approaches the speed of light to where it will eventually have infinite mass defeating the whole purpose of reducing the mass. E=MC^2

By warping space time in front of the ship, you can effectively reduce the space to be traveled in front of the ship and therefore reducing the ships travelable distance to the destination. The best thing about this is that by doing this the ship does not have to travel very fast at all relative to unwarped space time. The best way to warp space time is to have a masseous object in front of the ship that warps space time. This would basically scrunch the space between point A and B and reducing the distance dramatically.

This can be done at the ship if such warping could be harnessed and the ship could be impervious to the intense gravitational effects of the warping. Or this somehow could be done as a pathway, which is currently not possible in physics. This would work by scrunching the space time path between mass relays like a traversable straw.

From my understanding of theoretical physics, I do not see why something this would not work if it could be made workable. As far as I know my first example does not break any laws of physics, and in fact is a very favorite idea of how space travel might be doable in the future by physicists. The mass relay could effectively just propel a molecule of immense mass that warps the space time in front of and behind it, and ships just ride the wave behind it.

Creating a gravitational free or massless corridor would effectively do the opposite results as space no matter how gravitationally free is subject to E=MC^2 and it is intense gravity that warps space time in the favor approaching light speed travel. Regardless none of this would allow faster than light travel and the only way that is possible is to propel space time faster than the speed of light, similar to the immense of expansion at the big bang.

Modifié par TheDoublecross, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:26 .

[blank1]

The gross assumption being made here is that mass is being reducing in the ME universe in and of itself -- the mass is just being lowered relative to other objects with mass. What I believe mass effect fields do is create a space-time "bubble" where the mass within the sphere is lower relative to normal space, but the sphere is not "normal" space. An ounce is still an ounce inside the sphere of mass effect, but relative to normal space, it is lower. Basically, everything that's possible in the ME universe is because mass effect spheres are abnormal space.

Modifié par blank1, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:25 .

[Hunt3rW0lf]

blank1 wrote...

The gross assumption being made here is that mass is being reducing in the ME universe in and of itself -- the mass is just being lowered relative to other objects with mass. What I believe mass effect fields do is create a space-time "bubble" where the mass within the sphere is lower relative to normal space, but the sphere is not "normal" space. An ounce is still an ounce inside the sphere of mass effect, but relative to normal space, it is lower. Basically, everything that's possible in the ME universe is because mass effect spheres are abnormal space.

This is a reasonable assumption, but it would still involve the mass of the bubble and everything in it being changed relative to the space outside it.

[Chained_Creator]

Taurmaim wrote...
Even if the mass was non-existant, they'd still be limitted to travelling at c, which would take a long time going across the galaxy.  It would be instant for the crew (time dilation effects), but they'd arrive years after they left, depending on the distance.  Meaning that can't possibly be the true mechanism.

A possibility is the massless corridor uses bent spacetime, but even so, it would have have some really weird effects to attain near instantaneous travel between thousands of light-years apart points.

Folding space-time in on itself to make the actual distance "shorter"?

But wouldn't that run into other physics problems? (Or would it not matter because, as far as the corridor itself goes, no mass exist there?)

Man, just thinking of the Math for this make my head hurt.

[Hunt3rW0lf]

Chained_Creator wrote...

Taurmaim wrote...
Even if the mass was non-existant, they'd still be limitted to travelling at c, which would take a long time going across the galaxy.  It would be instant for the crew (time dilation effects), but they'd arrive years after they left, depending on the distance.  Meaning that can't possibly be the true mechanism.

A possibility is the massless corridor uses bent spacetime, but even so, it would have have some really weird effects to attain near instantaneous travel between thousands of light-years apart points.

Folding space-time in on itself to make the actual distance "shorter"?

But wouldn't that run into other physics problems? (Or would it not matter because, as far as the corridor itself goes, no mass exist there?)

Man, just thinking of the Math for this make my head hurt.

It's why I stick to experiments a ideas, let other people actually come up with the models 

It all comes down to what Mass is, whether it is fundamental and linked to everything else because theoretically, if Mass was connected to everything and was removed, there would be nothingness thereby allowing you to travel nowhere in nothing and therefore arrive at your intended destination!

[Chained_Creator]

Hunt3rW0lf wrote...
It's why I stick to experiments a ideas, let other people actually come up with the models 

It's why I'm a computer science major, not a physics major.

Hunt3rW0lf wrote...
It all comes down to what Mass is, whether it is fundamental and linked to everything else because theoretically, if Mass was connected to everything and was removed, there would be nothingness thereby allowing you to travel nowhere in nothing and therefore arrive at your intended destination!

Travel nowhere through nothing to get somwhere. It's like magic.

[Wrex.the.next.spectre]

Chained_Creator wrote...
I was going from what the Mass Effect Wiki has on Mass Relays. I don't have access to the Codex, currently, unless it's posted somewhere on the Internert. (Sorry.)

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex

There ya go.