4593 réponses à ce sujet

[Ozzy]

Incessant haters and blind fanboys are equally annoying. It's like, calm down pls.  

[Milan92]

Oh its like that.

[Mr.House]

Oh its like that.

Yes, there's a difference between defending and saying why you liek the character and tellign the haters to **** off or suck a dick which is what is going on in the comment section.

[AventuroLegendary]

I remember having the living SP scared out of me when I heard about Nyx. I've gotten to a point in Persona 3 that, with enough Monad grinding, I'm scared that the fight will be a pushover. 

 

Also, WTF at Armageddon. 9999 damage? There has to be a catch besides the SP usage.

[Seraphim24]

Wow Rise is so cute

 

 

I feel like I missed out on P4. If there are enough games on Vita maybe I'll get P4G, or at least original P4 at some point.  I feel like maybe I gave up too quickly on Persona after the mega grind in P2; IS, and Tartarus in P3. If it's fun enough... then maybe P5 also. I guess Persona felt too inundated in dry, boring grinding dungeons with the occasional boring character also (Junpei anyone?). 

[AventuroLegendary]

 

I feel like I missed out on P4. If there are enough games on Vita maybe I'll get P4G, or at least original P4 at some point.  I feel like maybe I gave up too quickly on Persona after the mega grind in P2; IS, and Tartarus in P3. If it's fun enough... then maybe P5 also. I guess Persona felt too inundated in dry, boring grinding dungeons with the occasional boring character also (Junpei anyone?). 

 

We had a discussion on dungeons a while back. I think Persona 4 hit the sweet spot when it came to dungeons, since they actually felt different thanks to varied themes (both aesthetics and music) and a few gimmicks here and there. Best of all, they didn't have many convoluted puzzles like some JRPGs. They could be a bit more intricate and deep about routes but we'll see with P5.

 

 

[Mr.House]

Everyone knows my take on dungeons. Personally I think DDS/Nocturnes design without focus on puzzles ist he best route. Nocturne/DDS dungiosn withoutt he puzzles where all unique, had many secrets and a challenge. They also had puzzles but get rid of that but use that outline. That's my stance and it will never change. I think Atlus best level design is still Nocturne with DDS second.

 

We do all agree that P3 dungeon design was ass though I believe.

[TheChris92]

Wow Rise is so cute

 

 

I feel like I missed out on P4. If there are enough games on Vita maybe I'll get P4G, or at least original P4 at some point.  I feel like maybe I gave up too quickly on Persona after the mega grind in P2; IS, and Tartarus in P3. If it's fun enough... then maybe P5 also. I guess Persona felt too inundated in dry, boring grinding dungeons with the occasional boring character also (Junpei anyone?). 

I don't wanna know what a fun game is for you then. Can't say I agree with any of your points and especially not Junpei. He might just be the most interesting of all the characters in his respective game.

[Mr.House]

Junpei and Yukari are some of the best and most believable characters in gaming. Everyone must have had a friend like Junpei or even be like Junpei with a friend that overshadows you in everything.

[TheChris92]

You asked which Persona game I thought was best -- To this day I can say, none of them. Persona 3 & 4 are equal because they both do sometihng the other doesn't do as well to balance themselves out. I had a blast with both of them so I can't say which one I enjoyed most. I placed Golden, so far, on my Top 30 Super-Star-Tag-Team-Best-Games-of-All-Time list which I still need to work more on a bit later. THe reason why is because there was lot more content and thus ultimately replay value since in retrospect, it's still Persona 4 but it's almost an entirely new game.

 

If Atlus ever decided to make a complete version of Persona 3 with the female protagonist then I'd hazard to say Persona 3 is the best. Sadly, that is not so.

[Seraphim24]

I don't wanna know what a fun game is for you then. Can't say I agree with any of your points and especially not Junpei. He might just be the most interesting of all the characters in his respective game.

 

Ok I won't share then, =). I will say I don't really subscribe to the notion of hard binary divisions between many games. I might like Persona 3 less than some other games, but still a lot more than quite a few others. 

 

I just thought Junpei was a pick me up character who didn't pick me up. He kind of reminds me of Sorata from X, but whereas Sorata was relentlessly upbeat even when he knew he was going to die, Junpei struggles to stay happy in much less desperate situations. 

 

Yukari was great though, I agree with that, and frankly Mitsuru was more interesting than people seem to give her credit for, but overall, it was also just grinding in Tartarus that sunk the game in the end for me.

 

Really though, I probably put like 80 hours into the game or something, which is way, way more than most other games I've played so that is a definitely positive sign. 

[TheChris92]

Ok I won't share then, =). I will say I don't really subscribe to the notion of hard binary divisions between many games. I might like Persona 3 less than some other games, but still a lot more than quite a few others. 

 

I just thought Junpei was a pick me up character who didn't pick me up. He kind of reminds me of Sorata from X, but whereas Sorata was relentlessly upbeat even when he knew he was going to die, Junpei struggles to stay happy in much less desperate situations. 

 

Yukari was great though, I agree with that, and frankly Mitsuru was more interesting than people seem to give her credit for, but overall, it was also just grinding in Tartarus that sunk the game in the end for me.

 

Really though, I probably put like 80 hours into the game or something, which is way, way more than most other games I've played so that is a definitely positive sign. 

Good, because otherwise this thread would just be another victim of derailment --I'm going to hazard a guess that it's at the very least a Final Fantasy game you hold in high esteem judging from your username alone and leave it at that.  Not exactly sure what you mean by binary choice -- It was a phrase of expression meant to imply that I evidently hold these games in high esteem, whereas I find most JRPGs to be guilty of the things you mentioned about the Persona games.

 

Junpei, as a character, comes off the as most relateable if not the guy who gains the most development. He's not, as you said, very upbeat at all and I don't know where you got that impression. During the end, he almost breaks down but he gains development after a tragedy befalls a loved one which makes him into a more mature person without completely losing what makes Junpei, well... Junpei. Like any other ordinary human, Junpei is scared shitless but he has a deadbeat dad whom has become a burden on him and it has affected Junpei as a person. He wish to be better than him and show that he's more a man than his dad ever was and thus he feels he needs to prove himself as a Persona user. If he can succeed there then he'll finally have something to believe in. It isn't until he meets Chidori that he finally finds something to struggle for in this world, not to mention the growing friendship he has with the others, especially Yukari & Mitsuru.

 

Junpei isn't just funny, got some of the best lines, he's also a beacon for great character development and authentic characterization. So there.

[Ozzy]

Yeah, Tartarus was pretty awful. I don't think there's any debate on that. 

[Seraphim24]

Good, because otherwise this thread would just be another victim of derailment --I'm going to hazard a guess that it's at the very least a Final Fantasy game you hold in high esteem judging from your username alone and leave it at that.  Not exactly sure what you mean by binary choice -- It was a phrase of expression meant to imply that I evidently hold these games in high esteem, whereas I find most JRPGs to be guilty of the things you mentioned about the Persona games.

 

Junpei, as a character, comes off the as most relateable if not the guy who gains the most development. He's not, as you said, very upbeat at all and I don't know where you got that impression. During the end, he almost breaks down but he gains development after a tragedy befalls a loved one which makes him into a more mature person without completely losing what makes Junpei, well... Junpei. Like any other ordinary human, Junpei is scared shitless but he has a deadbeat dad whom has become a burden on him and it has affected Junpei as a person. He wish to be better than him and show that he's more a man than his dad ever was and thus he feels he needs to prove himself as a Persona user. If he can succeed there then he'll finally have something to believe in. It isn't until he meets Chidori that he finally finds something to struggle for in this world, not to mention the growing friendship he has with the others, especially Yukari & Mitsuru.

 

Junpei isn't just funny, got some of the best lines, he's also a beacon for great character development and authentic characterization. So there.

 

Ehh I was typing another thing but I guess we can agree to disagree? It's not limited to whether he's upbeat or not it's based on his whole profile, his relationships, and actually particularly how he handles tragedy. It's also probably affected by the fact that I feel like I know someone who is so like Junpei and yet so profoundly different in key respects. So, it's everything in the composite but I want to go to bed so.. I'm glad you like him. =) 

 

Also because I actually just wanted to know more about Persona 4 characters, not necessarily compared to P3 ones but on their own they strike me as overall fairly interesting. (Have not played it yet)

 

I did want to say though (and not to derail anything) that actually Kefka was just the name I used for any gaming since FF6 came out basically, which is like... 20 years now or something, wow. 

[Mr.House]

 

 

If Atlus ever decided to make a complete version of Persona 3 with the female protagonist then I'd hazard to say Persona 3 is the best. Sadly, that is not so.

This, so much this.

[TheChris92]

Ehh I was typing another thing but I guess we can agree to disagree? It's not limited to whether he's upbeat or not it's based on his whole profile, his relationships, and actually particularly how he handles tragedy. It's also probably affected by the fact that I feel like I know someone who is so like Junpei and yet so profoundly different in key respects. So, it's everything in the composite but I want to go to bed so.. I'm glad you like him. =)

Junpei isn't upbeat. The female protagonist is upbeat. Junpei doesn't treat the situation with Chidori with happy smiles and glamour (Live and Let Live). He breaks down, he becomes sad and frustrated, and loses that cheerful personality and wakes up to the reality of the dead and depressing world around him -- He becomes a very different person and actually snaps a Yukari when she tries to lighten up the situation with a joke near the end. It showcases his humanity, his credibility and his growth as a character, but also that his personality isn't at all limited to being upbeat at all. Sure, he is cheerful at the start, and a bit of a jokester but he's quite serious behind this whole facade. You're probably thinking this is a natural case, given how most characters are capable of showing two sides of themselves where they are allowed to be cheerful and then serious, but I would hardly call Junpei an upbeat character, in comparison to what would probably better define a character of such a nature. I suppose in relation to most characters in Persona 3 he'd be cheerful unless you forget about the female protagonist who fits this category much better. In fact, Persona 4 fits this whole concept of being generally "upbeat" more than anything in Persona 3. Junpei's growth embodies the whole narrative message and growth of the game, and its the reality of how utterly devastating life can be and how there's a time and place for being whacky, but eventually you'll have to grow up or the world is gonna leave you behind.
 
And thanks! I'm disappointed you didn't like him because there's a lot more to him than the game lets on especially in the female route.
 

I did want to say though (and not to derail anything) that actually Kefka was just the name I used for any gaming since FF6 came out basically, which is like... 20 years now or something, wow.

Lots of people love FF6 and think it was the last of the good ones so that was just an assumption on my part.. alas..

[Mr.House]

The fact that Junpei was the voice of reason in the answer says alot about how much he grew too.

[Milan92]

The fact that Junpei was the voice of reason in the answer says alot about how much he grew too.

 

Oh please, he was just happy that Minato died since he didn't have to stand in his shadow anymore.

[AventuroLegendary]

I easily beat Nyx. I felt that I robbed myself of a good fight thanks to Monad grinding 

 

What's the point of Monad if there are no good endgame bosses?

[Mr.House]

I easily beat Nyx. I felt that I robbed myself of a good fight thanks to Monad grinding 

 

What's the point of Monad if there are no good endgame bosses?

That's why you never grind in your first pt. That's because Nyxs level is 76, so once you're over lvl90, the boss becomes a joke, Atlus fixed this with Izanami by making her base lvl90 but she had nothing unique like Nyx or even that hard so she was still a very easy end game boss.

[TheChris92]

If you actually play the games then your feelings might be different or they might not but when it comes to Persona you can't really tell before having it played it --- This is the truth because before I played it I couldn't get a strong impression from a playthrough and it's due to the fact to how it's designed. There's complexity in the game's narrative, but not just that, also its' gameplay design in relations to the narrative, which is but another alluded callback to Silent Hill -- Silent Hill chooses to let its gameplay, subtlety, atmosphere and environment speak for itself and let the story be mostly dictated by the world around with only the occasional cutscene.

A lot of Persona's structure is dictated how players' choose to spend their in-game time along with the main story elements of course. Teddie is more than he seems but his also a reflection of Persona 4's less somber and dark tone in comparisons to Persona 2 or 3 (previous games in general). The Personas' design ranges from disturbing, cool to symbolic, but that's because they are meant to reflect the subconscious image that humans create for legends, myths, folktale monsters -- It relates back to stuff about Jung again and his study sessions with patients, where talk of monsters and demons, usually some that would take shape of legendary apparitions would appear in these dreams of theirs. Some would also call the TV world for a dream land but it's different from person to person in-game of how the TV world is perceived, which are quite similar to Silent Hill's unruly nature. It's never certain whether the town itself changes accordingly to its current inhabitants or not, but it is definitely a certainty that the monsters are shaped by inner physical or subconscious desires of its victims, which is somewhat similar to how the concept of Shadows and Personas work.

I honestly don't care if people choose not to like Persona or just generally don't, that's fine with me, but that doesn't mean I won't rush to its defense and explain why, I think, it's such an incredible experience. I will, however, respect people who'd choose to actually play the game and then make their verdict because otherwise I find it non-credible. But that's how I see it.

[AventuroLegendary]

That's why you never grind in your first pt. That's because Nyxs level is 76, so once you're over lvl90, the boss becomes a joke, Atlus fixed this with Izanami by making her base lvl90 but she had nothing unique like Nyx or even that hard so she was still a very easy end game boss.

 

Thing is, the game kept hammering in the fact of how "unbeatable" Nyx was and how I should constantly be training. Since I beat the Reaper for a request and a huge door leading to a floor with high exp enemies popped up, I assumed Nyx was the real deal, more so than Izanami. 

 

And I actually liked Izanami. She didn't have that Arcana gimmick but she was challenging and looked pretty cool. Plus dat music.

[Mr.House]

Eh, the fact that Izanami didn't have any unique mechanics or difficult(she's not even challenging in fact if I don't pace my self, I will beat her before the remixed part of reach for the truth plays in her second form and that makes me sad for many reasons) is the issue with her. As a final boss she should be hard or the very least have something unique. Hitler, Great Father, Howling Chaos, Crawling Chaos and Nyx all had that. Nyx is very hard in a non grind, hardest difficulty pt(by that I mean being around her level) with no omnipotent orbs

 

When it comes to Atlus games, their final bosses hardly ever disappoint yet Izanami was not up to par to their past final bosses in any of their past games. Hopefully P5 we get a final boss that feels like a final boss. I had way more issues with Mitsuo the Hero then Izanami it's not even funny.

[AventuroLegendary]

Eh, the fact that Izanami didn't have any unique mechanics or difficult(she's not even challenging in fact if I don't pace my self, I will beat her before the remixed part of reach for the truth plays in her second form and that makes me sad for many reasons) is the issue with her. As a final boss she should be hard or the very least have something unique. Hitler, Great Father, Howling Chaos, Crawling Chaos and Nyx all had that. Nyx is very hard in a non grind, hardest difficulty pt(by that I mean being around her level) with no omnipotent orbs

 

When it comes to Atlus games, their final bosses hardly ever disappoint yet Izanami was not up to par to their past final bosses in any of their past games. Hopefully P5 we get a final boss that feels like a final boss. I had way more issues with Mitsuo the Hero then Izanami it's not even funny.

 

I didn't grind for Izanami that much (I was in the... 70s?) and I didn't even have debilitate or heat riser so it was a challenging boss. 

 

Experience may vary.

[Mr.House]

I didn't grind for Izanami that much (I was in the... 70s?) and I didn't even have debilitate or heat riser so it was a challenging boss. 

 

Experience may vary.

Poor planner