4593 réponses à ce sujet

[TheChris92]

I think Reezy said it better than I could do -- No one here is afraid of change, in fact, I'm pretty sure we welcome Persona 5 for being a fresh new experience, but we also kinda want it to feel like a Persona game. A more elaborate expositive response can be found with Reezy's post above in any case.

[Terca]

Eh, looks like most the director stuff was covered (interview with Hashino).

 

There is one tidbit which I haven't seen before, which is that the theme might the thought that average people always have the sudden urge to break from what they are, even if they chicken out. Everyone has a chance to do something, the question is whether or not they will change.

 

Sounds like how we get the new teammates. In P4 you helped people accept themselves, in P5 we might be helping them express themselves.

[TheChris92]

Eh, looks like most the director stuff was covered (interview with Hashino).

 

There is one tidbit which I haven't seen before, which is that the theme might the thought that average people always have the sudden urge to break from what they are, even if they chicken out. Everyone has a chance to do something, the question is whether or not they will change.

 

Sounds like how we get the new teammates. In P4 you helped people accept themselves, in P5 we might be helping them express themselves.

Hashino elaborated a bit on it - Basically, imagine yourself, you're doing your usual daily routines of your life but you always feel like you could do more, reach out for more, break away from the chains that society has restricted on you. Your future is sometimes too restrictive, either it's been decided for you or you feel like you are being string along.. you know what to do, and it creates worries, doubts. We don't always have the determination to topple the status-quo, but there those who do, and those are the main characters.

[Master Race]

It would appear this all stemmed from a misunderstand than. I never called for Persona to be a stealth game (when you say stealth game i think deux ex and stuff like that) and i thought i made it clear that a stealth system would be used to avoid combat (like in other games but more /make the ambushing even more effective then it already is but i didn't make it clear like i thought.

 

This could be an interesting discussion though.The entire thief angle. The reason i specially asked for stealth was because of the thief theme, not really thinking about jrpgs as a whole. My exact quote was "i could definitively see them adding a sneak system to avoid combat more or by successful ambushing an enemy have the fight be significantly easier. Even if they don't i hope they have the crew sneaking in cutscenes or other gameplay.". Because i mean if there is anything we can all agree on ( i hope lol) it  is a thief who isn't sneaky isn't a good thief. Having a thief character or possibly a strong theme based on thievery (or at least that is what it looks like so far) led me to calling specifically for some sort of stealth mechanic but at the end of the day yes i do like the idea of having the game's dungeon parts being overall easier or quicker for those who want it that way. It just would be really weird if stealth was not in the game at all (even if just in a cut scene)

 

And yes J.Reezy you make good points and of course we don't know if any change would be positive i am just optimistic that seeing the large fanbase that has come particular from Persona 4 and Golden that Atlus could pull it off. Keep niche players happy and also newer mainstream players.

[Terca]

Hashino elaborated a bit on it - Basically, imagine yourself, you're doing your usual daily routines of your life but you always feel like you could do more, reach out for more, break away from the chains that society has restricted on you. Your future is sometimes too restrictive, either it's been decided for you or you feel like you are being string along.. you know what to do, and it creates worries, doubts. We don't always have the determination to topple the status-quo, but there those who do, and those are the main characters.

 

Cool!

 

I was just struggling with this very thing a few hours ago. Persona 5 being relatable confirmed.

 

I feel like making a totalbiscuit joke, but it's not working. SOmething about FoV sliders.

[TheChris92]

It would appear this all stemmed from a misunderstand than. I never called for Persona to be a stealth game (when you say stealth game i think deux ex and stuff like that) and i thought i made it clear that a stealth system would be used to avoid combat (like in other games but more /make the ambushing even more effective then it already is but i didn't make it clear like i thought.

 

This could be an interesting discussion though.The entire thief angle. The reason i specially asked for stealth was because of the thief theme, not really thinking about jrpgs as a whole. My exact quote was "i could definitively see them adding a sneak system to avoid combat more or by successful ambushing an enemy have the fight be significantly easier. Even if they don't i hope they have the crew sneaking in cutscenes or other gameplay.". Because i mean if there is anything we can all agree on ( i hope lol) it  is a thief who isn't sneaky isn't a good thief. Having a thief character or possibly a strong theme based on thievery (or at least that is what it looks like so far) led me to calling specifically for some sort of stealth mechanic but at the end of the day yes i do like the idea of having the game's dungeon parts being overall easier or quicker for those who want it that way. It just would be really weird if stealth was not in the game at all (even if just in a cut scene)

 

And yes J.Reezy you make good points and of course we don't know if any change would be positive i am just optimistic that seeing the large fanbase that has come particular from Persona 4 and Golden that Atlus could pull it off. Keep niche players happy and also newer mainstream players.

Fair enough, but consider this, and this is a response to the whole thief angle. Did Persona 4 apply detective or L.A. Noire features into its gameplay to accomdate for it being a murder mystery? No of course not, it played completely like a Persona game. It has a certain style, and thematic approach that relates to that of mythical tricksters of legend or fairytales, ala Arsené Lupin, like how Persona 4 presented itself as a murder mystery in its plot, with interesting detective characters like Naoto Shirogane or Ryotaro Dojima and even better, Tohru Adachi. Anyway, asking to avoid combat entirely in a Persona game is impossible, because eventually you'll have to fight unavoidable battles, because like you said, this isn't Deus Ex where you can just sneak your way through. It's a JRPG, there's not changing it. Plus, it's not like you couldn't avoid enemies in the previous games, it was a heck easy in Persona 4, but sometimes you have to fight and there's no escaping that. Sometimes even a thief has to fight his way through a tough situation, but like we've discussed; The supposed cover elements and walking on chandeliers are most likely either gimmicks, or new found ways to initiate preemptive strikes on enemies, which could be interesting. Disregarding that though -- Eventually the game will demand that you grind at least a bit, to beat the bosses etc. That's not something to escape. Persona 4 Golden, however, made it easier with the Golden Hands and the somewhat scaled down difficulty setting so if combat is such an issue with you, then you're welcome to change it to easy mode, I'm sure there's probably gonna be something akin to the Golden Hands in the game as well to make the grind feel less.

[Master Race]

Chris that is true. I really enjoyed Persona 4 and it had no sort of LA noire game play so i am sure without stealth i could enjoy Persona 5 on easy mode. I just wanted to explain why i specifically called for stealth i am definitively no jrpg expert i had no idea stealth wasn't a thing in them. I know combat is unavoidable and i will get through it. After all Catherine is one of my favorite games....yet i hated the platforming of it lol. I hope they bring Golden to the ps4 so i can play it.

 

J.Reezy i agree i don't think they specifically added social links just to appeal to people but like you said  it felt like a natural next step. Who knows maybe Atlus will change the entire playbook and add some sort of stealthiness to a jrpg since it goes hand in hand with a thief theme. Either way i'm sure i will really enjoy the game.

[TheChris92]

Actually, I loved the platforming puzzles in Catherine. I loved the challenge of it, if not the symbolic meaning it frames with the overall narrative. But that's something Atlus is really good at. Glad you like Catherine too though at least.

 

One of our regulars here started out with Catherine then moved on to Persona.

[TheChris92]

Chris that is true. I really enjoyed Persona 4 and it had no sort of LA noire game play so i am sure without stealth i could enjoy Persona 5 on easy mode. I just wanted to explain why i specifically called for stealth i am definitively no jrpg expert i had no idea stealth wasn't a thing in them. I know combat is unavoidable and i will get through it. After all Catherine is one of my favorite games....yet i hated the platforming of it lol. I hope they bring Golden to the ps4 so i can play it.

 

J.Reezy i agree i don't think they specifically added social links just to appeal to people but like you said  it felt like a natural next step. Who knows maybe Atlus will change the entire playbook and add some sort of stealthiness to a jrpg since it goes hand in hand with a thief theme. Either way i'm sure i will really enjoy the game.

Actually, I think the social links were more or less just an experiment at first and they didn't expect them to be as popular as they did. They feel more or less like an evolved iteration of party interaction from the old games. In the old games, the party would usually only talk during story sections, so I assume Atlus wanted to make the world feel more responsive, alive, which is where the social link aspect came to fruit and I'm glad it did. It's definitely one of Persona's better aspects, but it's not the only one of course.

[Chewin]

So passed first exam week. Managed to do fairly well, but not well enough to receive a gift from Mitsuri. 'Tis saddens me. I feel like it is going to make it harder for her to notice me now (not really). But I equipped Yukari in a 'bikini armor' in Tartarus, so I got that going for me which is nice.

 

Anyhow, my perverse comments aside, not particularly digging the protagonist in this game. The thing about silent protagonists--while they serve as a method to more easily convey your personal feeling and thoughts through the playable character within the limits of the game--more often then not they have a tendency to play the role of an 'observer' in the narrative, instead of an active character. This I've found tends to be more present with JRPGs, considering the narrative doesn't "rely" on the protagonists actions through dialog (which are rather limited compared to other games) and more on the characters around you that helps shape the story. This mechanic makes the characters around the player stand out more, while the protagonists suffers from it in turn.

 

While the game (from what I've experienced thus far) has a more selective range of options to what I am familiar with, generally they are rather arbitrary ones and scant, which makes some of the interactions feel rather hollow in my opinion, and more an observation on the particular character's reflection on events and things (or whatever it is they want to convey) that you interact with. I can understand the reasoning of the 'answers' being rather ambiguous, since the protagonist is not a set character, but it would be more appreciated (imho) if you could convey thoughts in a more 'articulate' manner, and give groundwork to certain narrative threads. E.g why exactly the others considers the protagonist to continuously have the leading role, and have it portrayed through different means instead of it merely being restricted to Tartarus and your actions there. Like having the availability to be more proactive outside of Dark Hour (I particularly liked that Jinpei questioned the decision of following the protagonist).

 

It is also a bit of an annoyance how despite what I would consider to be more active efforts (be it in personal activities or socializing), is how certain individuals treats the protagonists as a slacker and rather sluggish in nature, e.g. since they tend to question whether I actually followed what was said during an earlier date. Not sure if this has to do with the levels in your Status (which does state that the character is currently a Slacker). If so--and their interactions changes as Status improves--then I have no issue with the matter and consider it quite a neat feature.

 

Anyhow, I'm fairly certain that I am still in the early stages of the game and I am not in a position to judge it completely, so hopefully it gets somewhat better as it goes along, though I am skeptical that it will. 

[CrazyRah]

Write less, play more!

 

Joking of course, it's interesting to see another persons take on P3. I never played with the male protagonist since I had the option to play as the female one in P3 portable and she's easily far more interesting to me than the protagonist that I otherwise would've been forced to play as.

 

About the other things, play more! 

[Chewin]

Write less, play more!

Hah! There is certainly truth to that.

Yes, I was told as well that the female protagonist is better, but lack of Vita and impatince on my part made me play the PS2 version. Well not like I regret it, still having tons of fun with the game (and it is quite addictive), though the protagonist wouldn't rank high on my list. Ah well, I have a reason to do a second playthrough somewhere in the future at least.

[Milan92]

Hah! There is certainly truth to that.

Yes, I was told as well that the female protagonist is better, but lack of Vita and impatince on my part made me play the PS2 version. Well not like I regret it, still having tons of fun with the game (and it is quite addictive), though the protagonist wouldn't rank high on my list. Ah well, I have a reason to do a second playthrough somewhere in the future at least.

 

Just view the blue haired brat as your way to Yukari's and Mitsuru's... eh hearts.

[TheChris92]

So passed first exam week. Managed to do fairly well, but not well enough to receive a gift from Mitsuri. 'Tis saddens me. I feel like it is going to make it harder for her to notice me now (not really). But I equipped Yukari in a 'bikini armor' in Tartarus, so I got that going for me which is nice.
 
Anyhow, my perverse comments aside, not particularly digging the protagonist in this game. The thing about silent protagonists--while they serve as a method to more easily convey your personal feeling and thoughts through the playable character within the limits of the game--more often then not they have a tendency to play the role of an 'observer' in the narrative, instead of an active character. This I've found tends to be more present with JRPGs, considering the narrative doesn't "rely" on the protagonists actions through dialog (which are rather limited compared to other games) and more on the characters around you that helps shape the story. This mechanic makes the characters around the player stand out more, while the protagonists suffers from it in turn.
 
While the game (from what I've experienced thus far) has a more selective range of options to what I am familiar with, generally they are rather arbitrary ones and scant, which makes some of the interactions feel rather hollow in my opinion, and more an observation on the particular character's reflection on events and things (or whatever it is they want to convey) that you interact with. I can understand the reasoning of the 'answers' being rather ambiguous, since the protagonist is not a set character, but it would be more appreciated (imho) if you could convey thoughts in a more 'articulate' manner, and give groundwork to certain narrative threads. E.g why exactly the others considers the protagonist to continuously have the leading role, and have it portrayed through different means instead of it merely being restricted to Tartarus and your actions there. Like having the availability to be more proactive outside of Dark Hour (I particularly liked that Jinpei questioned the decision of following the protagonist).
 
It is also a bit of an annoyance how despite what I would consider to be more active efforts (be it in personal activities or socializing), is how certain individuals treats the protagonists as a slacker and rather sluggish in nature, e.g. since they tend to question whether I actually followed what was said during an earlier date. Not sure if this has to do with the levels in your Status (which does state that the character is currently a Slacker). If so--and their interactions changes as Status improves--then I have no issue with the matter and consider it quite a neat feature.
 
Anyhow, I'm fairly certain that I am still in the early stages of the game and I am not in a position to judge it completely, so hopefully it gets somewhat better as it goes along, though I am skeptical that it will.

I think the general problem is that you're overthinking too much while forgetting to treat the game for what it is first -- In a lot ways, I'm regretting the part where I talked about its allusions to Jungian lore and the psychological field of study, as a form of recommendation, because it imposes a set of expectations on you, which might completely do you, and the game, an injustice. If you want to hear to what I think, then it's like this; The games I love are usually subject for study once I've finished the game. I love discovering the underlying implicated messages that they carry, and how they affected me, in order to realize what it is I liked about them in the first place, or perhaps things I didn't think about before but the developers wanted me to discover.. Because it puts it all into a whole new perspective.
 
 In regards to the protagonist, I'll say this. His background, though little there may be, serves to frame his somewhat aloof disposition he has towards his peers. The female protagonist and the P4 hero are completely different from him -- The female protagonist juxtaposes his mysterious and quiet nature with that of a more outgoing and upbeat personality, despite the shared tragic background. But it also works because it grants her a different layer of depth. It's also implied in her social links with the SEES members, that perhaps the upbeat self that she's showing to the world, functions as a shield to hide the despair of a grim past. Already by the start is it the established that the protagonist has no parents to speak off -- It sets things into a very fascinating psychological perspective, but the game isn't too forthright about it entirely, because I feel it's up to the player to connect some of the last dots but it works as a way to still grant her a nice frame to work with. The male protagonist has his own layers though -- He's usually very quiet for a reason, but what makes him unique, and what makes him stand out from say his female counterpart or even the P4 hero: It's the fact that he's character and talents are shaped by the people he befriends and meets, whereas the P4 hero uses his talents to uplift those around him. It also works with that particular sense of loneliness one could derive from him.. or at least from what one could piece together with the info that has been granted.
 
Heck, that cardinal sense of solitude isn't necessarily exclusive to him alone, but rather it's shared amongst his fellow SEES members. Take the opening animation as an example. The characters displayed in the video are often shown left by themselves with the abstruse imagery surrounding them. However, though the fact that the characters are depicted as faceless silhouettes in the sequence only serves to further this theme, 
one also cannot help but notice the gentle thought-provoking contradiction in the game's presentation: for a game where society plays such a major role, why are the characters so alone?
 
Despite being centered in a bustling urban environment, the game decides to overlook the doubtlessly numerous individuals in the city to instead focus on a person's capacity (or willingness) to acknowledge his or her surroundings. In the city, while riding on public transportation to school or work, one is able to simultaneously stand next to others while being completely excluded from their lives as well. The people who repeat this daily commute can almost be likened to glassy-eyed robots going about their own personal routines-- never stopping to acknowledge the people around them except to assert their personal space.

 

It all boils down to the propensity that is Apathy, the apathy of one's job, the apathy of one's direction of the future and the apathy of living.

 

I'm going to stop there, save that I start spoiling things. But already from the beginning of the game I think it's safe to tell how Apathy bears weight on the game's plot.

[Chewin]

*snip*

 

It is certainly a sentiment I can share, and something I myself tend to engage with games that stimulated me in different ways. Completing the game and then breaking it down is I think the right way to go if I wish to appreciate its underlying elements (well that goes with a lot of things in fact). 

 

Interesting view on the protagonist, it certainly opened my eyes a bit. I initially thought that the ambiguous nature of the character served as a method to exclude him from being a set one and more in line for what you--as the player--want him to be. While true to a certain extent, I am starting to see that this is not strictly the case , due to a lot his interactions with the various characters makes him rather ambivalent; which was a reason why I found the character to be rather "off" since he has rather conflicting reactions with several of the people he interacts with. As you pointed out, loneliness can certainly be identified with him, especially in regards to his design and having headphones as an accessory (excluding himself from active socialization). I assume this is a driving mechanic and method that correlates with the gameplay, since the game "enforces" you to seek out and improve social interactions (both through the characters and in terms of the combat). Looking at it from this POV, I can see that his portrayal as a character is done in a more nuanced fashion, which I can appreciate more and see the potential it has down the road within the game.

 

I'm glad that you mentioned solitude, since it has certainly been bugging my mind as I've been playing. I noticed that with a lot of the characters in SEES (meaning Mitsuru, Akihiko and Yukari) are fairly popular in school, yet everytime I discussed with them about plans for later of the day and so forth, the always stay at home or simply say that they aren't interested in heading out anywhere, which made me be a bit confused and why their characters were so contradictory as I initially pictured them. Even Junpei states several times that he is gonna hang out with his friends, but whenever there is a certain holiday he says that he didn't like to go out (mostly b/c there weren't any girls). I dismissed this as it simply happening off screen with them being with friends, but it since that wasn't the case.

 

Also interestingly (imo) is that while one mostly spends time with the SEES members, I don't personally experience any real "warmth" within the ranks, and everyone interacts with each other in a rather formal manner (with exception for Yukari and Jinpei from time to time). It is an interesting contrast when I compare to people at school and almost can identify them better than the SEES members, despite living in the same building and going through certain life threatening events.

 

I've definitely seen the form of apathy in the game, which seems to be a mental state that a lot of the characters in the Social Link shares, and I feel it has more resolution within the 'main narrative' as I progress through the game.

 

As always, appreciate your comment Chris!  

[TheChris92]

So, there's something interesting I noticed about Persona 4 Ultimax, and how Persona Q might actually fit into the canon after all.

Spoiler

There are quite a few references and dots that connects with Q -- Yosuke makes a passing reference to the Seven Wonders of Yasogami High, which is a legend that relates to that of the Labyrinth and clock tower in Q, Aigis & Teddie's banter seems like a continuation of the ones they had in Q (I have to play them both again but I'm sure of it) despite having lost their memories of it, and if you want to believe it then Niko/Rei fits the description of being the prototype for Labrys' design (Her mother that is), she has an epilogue in the P3 story.

[TheChris92]

Dance All Night details

Persona 4: Dancing All Night
In preparation for its upcoming June 25 launch in Japan, Atlus has redesigned the official Japanese website for Persona 4: Dancing All Night. While much of its content is standard fare for a Japanese game-related site, it nevertheless links to an extensive question and answer session conducted with producer Kazuhisa Wada that sheds new light on myriad aspects of the game. As some of the questions are obvious fare for those who have read up on the game’s news stories until now, we’ve abridged it to include only answers with new content or otherwise clarify points that were previously ambiguous. You can catch our translation below.

Will there be store-specific preorder bonuses?

Those are currently in the pipeline. Once we’ve hashed everything out, we’ll officially announce what’s up, so hold on until then!

Will there be a downloadable version of the game available?

That’s the plan.

Will the soundtrack ever be sold separately?

We’re not ready to announce a release date at this stage, but of course we intend to make it available separately. However, those who are especially keen on getting the game would be wise to pick up a special edition since obviously it’ll be cheaper overall to get the soundtrack that way than on its own later on down the line.

Will you release a demo version of the game?

We don’t intend to do so, although we will have demo stations set up [in Japan] where people can check the game out ahead of release and get a feel for it.

What kind of music game is Dancing All Night?

It’s hard to explain it well just in writing like this, but essentially notes come out from the center of the screen and when they overlap one of six areas on the screen, that’s when you hit either a face button or a direction on the d-pad in time to the music. There are other twists layered onto that formula like multi-button presses, held notes, and something we’re calling “Scratch,” as well. Oh, it’s worth noting that the game does support touch controls. [As a later question clarifies later however, the game is PlayStation TV compatible.] I can’t get into overtly specific comparisons for, ah, let’s call them “adult reasons,” but the gameplay is not unlike that one arcade game, the one whose cabinets look like washing machines. That being said, we plan to upload tutorials and gameplay movies as time goes on to further clarify how the game is played.

Is the difficulty level fixed for each song or can you pick what level to play for each one?

Each song in the game has four difficulty levels, Easy, Normal, Hard, and All Night. That being said, even within the same overall difficulty level, there is some level of variation between songs in terms of how easily they can be cleared. Nevertheless, we’ve designed Easy mode in particular to be approachable to people who are either new to rhythm games or just aren’t good at them in general. We’ve also made it so that there are additional settings you can turn on during the story mode to make the game easier, should that be necessary, so don’t worry about whether the game will be too much for you to handle! And we’re not leaving advanced players behind, either; we’re balancing it to ensure they can have a fun time, too!

Would you classify Dancing All Night as a story-driven music game, rather than just a pure music game?

Correct. Chronologically, the game takes place after Persona 4 Golden‘s epilogue. We’ll talk more later about why some things might appear to be surprising reversions sometime later down the line.

Does every character have multiple costumes?

Of course! We’re whipping up lots of them right now as we speak. We’ll talk more about specifics at a later date, so look forward to that!

Will there be DLC for songs and costumes?

It’s our intention to put out such content, although right now we’re still busy just getting the main game out the door. Once we start hearing from other people what they think of the game, that’s when we’ll start having a solid idea of what we want to do.

Will there be a jukebox mode in the game?

Yes, we’re working on that.

Will we be able to play the songs outside of the story mode?

Yes, you’ll be able to do that in the Free Dance mode and you can unlock additional songs by playing it.

Will there be extra bonuses for full combos and other sorts of achievements in the game?

There will be. That’s another thing we’re hard at work on right now.

What’s Nanako’s place in the game? Is she the mascot?

She actually plays an important role in the storyline and will dance in it, but won’t otherwise participate in any battles.

Is the protagonist’s name officially Yu Narukami in the game?

It is and it’s going to be locked to that. I know everyone has their own idea of who the Persona 4 protagonist is in their heads, but if you look at it as just another unique spin on that character, I think you’ll find a lot to enjoy about him here.

Will the game have PlayStation TV support?

Yes, that’s the plan.

Will Hanako Ohtani dance in the game?

Sorry, but no. (Laughs.)

[CrazyRah]

No Hanako dancing!? 

 

Everything do sound nice enough to still keep the ears open to what it might end up being and I might just get the game thanks to OST and the fact that while not very good at them I've still found rythm games to be very entertaining

[TheChris92]

Well Catherine was a puzzle platformer and I found it to be very engaging - I can't wait for some Nobihiko & Akira Yamaoka remixes.

[Milan92]

Well Catherine was a puzzle platformer and I found it to be very engaging - I can't wait for some Nobihiko & Akira Yamaoka remixes.

 

Very engaging indeed! I remember how I rage-quited a few times while we were in a party

[Mr.House]

Chris secretly wants it for Naoto.