4593 réponses à ce sujet

[Dominus]

Spoiler

Yep, they get the banter/dialogue to an art with a lot of P4. Game World Boss was one of the longer boss fights off of memory, at least to where you're at.

This appeared a few days ago:

[CrazyRah]

Well since this thread doesn't have that much activity, might as well post some minor impressions and stuff.

 

Spoiler

-Well Teddie's revelation was... unexpected. Still confused about it, but guess it gets tackled down the line. Or not. Doesn't really matter that much.

 

-Recruited Rise to the team. She is... cute. Has a bit of a "senpai complex" apparently. So, she desperately wants me to notice her? Well little does she know, I never will. Probably. She has to have something substantial to bump down Yukiko. Her and Kanji are my favorites so far. They get extra credit from me since they happen to have the funniest remarks (honestly, I've been laughing for real at certain scenes when they've been on screen), and I've found Kanji's SL to be the most engaging out of the crew. 

 

-Tracked down and confronted the "killer". You know, the guys could've been more active when facing the Shadows, instead of letting them always run their mouth until it gets into a confrontation. And f*ck that game world boss fight! Wasn't prepared for it, and I managed to beat it just barely enough (had only Yu left standing). Basically my reaction throughout the whole fight. Well one needn't to have read a mystery novel for events to go as our merry band of characters expect them to, so we'll see when the real culprit strikes next.

 

-Beach scene was hilarious. Not as great as P3, but that Birth of Venus scene killed me; "Yeah man! I'm ready to be born goddamit!". Gotta love Kanji.

 

Anyhow, that was from the top of my head I wanted to point out.

 

For now we both share the same favorites!

[TheChris92]

Well since this thread doesn't have that much activity, might as well post some minor impressions and stuff.

Well, as a matter of fact, I was about to post some Dancing All Night content, yo!
 

[spoiler]-Well Teddie's revelation was... unexpected. Still confused about it, but guess it gets tackled down the line. Or not. Doesn't really matter that much.

It's easier to understand Teddie's situation once one fully understands the TV world, when you finish the game it'll probably also be easier to argue about
 

-Recruited Rise to the team. She is... cute. Has a bit of a "senpai complex" apparently. So, she desperately wants me to notice her? Well little does she know, I never will. Probably. She has to have something substantial to bump down Yukiko. Her and Kanji are my favorites so far. They get extra credit from me since they happen to have the funniest remarks (honestly, I've been laughing for real at certain scenes when they've been on screen), and I've found Kanji's SL to be the most engaging out of the crew.

Yes, it's her social link that stands attest to that sense of disconnection which exist between the links and the plot, which I dislike, but it's more or less because her social link is pretty much a retread of things she's already dealt with. But she's voiced by Laura Bailey so she automatically gets a pass. 
 

-Tracked down and confronted the "killer". You know, the guys could've been more active when facing the Shadows, instead of letting them always run their mouth until it gets into a confrontation.

Ah, you caught Nanako, finally?

"You couldn't just quit while you were ahead, could you, big bro?". Love it when she says when you catch her at the end. 

Anyway, the thing is that in order to face yourself you must first learn to accept yourself, which isn't easy, it never is -- They let them run their mouths because they need to hear it.. They need to face it after all. 
 

And f*ck that game world boss fight! Wasn't prepared for it, and I managed to beat it just barely enough (had only Yu left standing). Basically my reaction throughout the whole fight. Well one needn't to have read a mystery novel for events to go as our merry band of characters expect them to, so we'll see when the real culprit strikes next.

Which boss is that? The only boss I found somewhat difficult in the entire game would be Shadow Yukiko.. Mitsuo, Shadow Kanji, and another future boss were pretty difficult in vanilla Persona 4.

 

EDIT: I see it was Mitsuo -- In which case, yeah he's a bit difficult, not all that much -- He's a lot tougher in the vanilla version.
 

-Beach scene was hilarious. Not as great as P3, but that Birth of Venus scene killed me; "Yeah man! I'm ready to be born goddamit!". Gotta love Kanji.

Yes, nothing beats Operation Babe Hunt
 

Anyhow, that was from the top of my head I wanted to point out.

Getting ahead!

[Chewin]

I should slap you for not liking Rise more, but you atleast think she's cute. I approve of everything else though!

Well before you raise your hand, haven't yet come that far with her SL. I do like her introduction, since she didn't blatantly come across as her personification on TV (which generally is someone I can't stand), and I like the dimension on her identity, which I expect the SL will mainly revolve around. But I'm not interested in Hannah Montana, so we'll see how it turns out.

Also I just noticed that The Dying Man's story is being read by kids. *sniff* Makes me feel so happy for him.

[Milan92]

Well before you raise your hand, haven't yet come that far with her SL. I do like her introduction, since she didn't blatantly come across as her personification on TV (which generally is someone I can't stand), and I like the dimension on her identity, which I expect the SL will mainly revolve around. But I'm not interested in Hannah Montana, so we'll see how it turns out.

Also I just noticed that The Dying Man's story is being read by kids. *sniff* Makes me feel so happy for him.

 

Nah its fine, Rise isn't for everyone, so don't feel guilty if you don't care about her as much in the end

 

And yes, it was great to see the pink croc in P4 beign read by kids. Akinari was one of my favorites in P3.

[Chewin]

Well, as a matter of fact, I was about to post some Dancing All Night content, yo!

Well excuse me!
 

It's easier to understand Teddie's situation once one fully understands the TV world, when you finish the game it'll probably also be easier to argue about

 
I'd expected as much.

Ah, you caught Nanako, finally?
"You couldn't just quit while you were ahead, could you, big bro?". Love it when she says when you catch her at the end. 
Anyway, the thing is that in order to face yourself you must first learn to accept yourself, which isn't easy, it never is -- They let them run their mouths because they need to hear it.. They need to face it after all. 

 
Nanako could have fooled me.

Oh certainly, I get the concept but the execution could have been handled a bit better. I could get behind Yosuke, Chie and partially Yukiko, since they were confused at the time but it should have changed formula with the rest. It also is a bit contradictory when the characters shout "Stop! Don't say it!" in almost every confrontation, when the shadow already has said its fair share. The characters are after all more interested in directly saving the individual in question, instead of having them facing themselves (and honestly, facing a shadow is hardly the only method to do it). Naturally it has to go in tandem with the plot, but after Yukiko they could have spiced the confrontations up a bit.

Which boss is that? The only boss I found somewhat difficult in the entire game would be Shadow Yukiko.. Mitsuo, Shadow Kanji, and another future boss were pretty difficult in vanilla Persona 4.
 
EDIT: I see it was Mitsuo -- In which case, yeah he's a bit difficult, not all that much -- He's a lot tougher in the vanilla version.

Eh, wasn't the right level to face him yet, so the damage I did was quite miniscule. It certainly dragged on for quite awhile. Otherwise it wasn't that much of an hassle. Could have equipped more SP elixirs, since mine had been used up in the dungeon, which made it even harder.

[Milan92]

Try to see if you can already fuse Yoshitune. 

 

His Nine Lives Blade Works attack is fantastic.

[Chewin]

*googles*

It says you have to be lvl. 75

How fast do you think I am!?

Still at lvl 40.

[TheChris92]

Try to see if you can already fuse Yoshitune. 

 

His Nine Lives Blade Works attack is fantastic.

He can't. He's not that far yet, and I assume you mean Hassou Tobi? Don't think he has an ability by the name you mention.

[Milan92]

*googles*

It says you have to be lvl. 75

How fast do you think I am!?

 

Tsk tsk, I placed too much faith in you!

[Milan92]

He can't. He's not that far yet, and I assume you mean Hassou Tobi? Don't think he has an ability by the name you mention.

 

Yeah I meant Hassou Tobi. But I like to call it Nine Lives Blade works from now on for certain reasons.

[TheChris92]

Oh certainly, I get the concept but the execution could have been handled a bit better. I could get behind Yosuke, Chie and partially Yukiko, since they were confused at the time but it should have changed formula with the rest. It also is a bit contradictory when the characters shout "Stop! Don't say it!" in almost every confrontation, when the shadow already has said its fair share. The characters are after all more interested in directly saving the individual in question, instead of having them facing themselves (and honestly, facing a shadow is hardly the only method to do it). Naturally it has to go in tandem with the plot, but after Yukiko they could have spiced the confrontations up a bit.

True. But, it should be noted that Kanji litterally says "We'll just beat this thing and it'll be better" something along those lines. Mitsuo stands as an example of what happens if you deny the shadow, they insistently try to help the individual to understand how the Shadows function. The idea is to prevent it from going berserk, but it's never easy to face your shadow and accept your weakness. Mitsuo, for instance, could not face his shadow.

[TheChris92]

Yeah I meant Hassou Tobi. But I like to call it Nine Lives Blade works from now on for certain reasons.

Okay 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TheChris92]

Eh, wasn't the right level to face him yet, so the damage I did was quite miniscule. It certainly dragged on for quite awhile. Otherwise it wasn't that much of an hassle. Could have equipped more SP elixirs, since mine had been used up in the dungeon, which made it even harder.

Leveling up isn't that much of an issue in Golden -- The Golden Hands help with that, constantly fusing Personas is key like in the last game, whenever you finish a dungeon, go back into the old dungeon and clear out the bonus bosses for bonus boosts to your stats, while also grinding a bit after Golden Hands, 'till you're at least 5 to 10 levels higher and ready for the next dungeon. It's tedious but less tedious in Golden and it's pretty much a stamp of JRPGs.

[Chewin]

Tsk tsk, I placed too much faith in you!

Like I didn't complain enough about the grinding! Being lvl 75 at this point would be amusing though.

True. But, it should be noted that Kanji litterally says "We'll just beat this thing and it'll be better" something along those lines. Mitsuo stands as an example of what happens if you deny the shadow, they insistently try to help the individual to understand how the Shadows function. The idea is to prevent it from going berserk, but it's never easy to face your shadow and accept your weakness. Mitsuo, for instance, could not face his shadow.

Are you referring to Kanji as his confrontation or? I did enjoy Mitsuo, since it wasn't as straightforward as with the others, and the party's reaction was understandable since they were confused about the incident. Kanji, Rise and Teddie could have been done better however, but it is a minor quibble. Hardly a game breaking formula.

[Milan92]

Like I didn't complain enough about the grinding! Being lvl 75 at this point would be amusing though.

 

Well, I managed to do it. And whatever I can do, you can do too! If not beter!

 

But I'm a bit too harsh. Unless you have access to a Persona with almighty skills like Megadoleon, those Gold Hands can be a pain. Just keep doing what you're doing and as Chris said, try to focus on fusing as much persona's as possible.

[TheChris92]

Like I didn't complain enough about the grinding! Being lvl 75 at this point would be amusing though.


Are you referring to Kanji as his confrontation or? I did enjoy Mitsuo, since it wasn't as straightforward as with the others, and the party's reaction was understandable since they were confused about the incident. Kanji, Rise and Teddie could have been done better however, but it is a minor quibble. Hardly a game breaking formula.

But the thing is that Rise, Kanji & Teddie didn't have no reason to know better, especially not Teddie given that he's REDACTED.. They were all confused when they first were thrown into the TV. The Shadows are them and resisting difficult feelings about yourself, which you already know is true, isn't something that is done casually. Jung said that a Shadow is created from a complex, and each party member carries a complex, in which a shadow is born. The place he reffered to as " the personal unconscious" is said to be made up of one’s perceptions, thoughts and feelings. Every experience you’ve had is stored here, and usually stays in a dormant state unless the memory is specifically retrieved. The key point about the personal unconscious that is related to persona is the idea of complexes, which reside in the personal unconscious. Basically, a sort of trauma or misconstrewn concept about something. That's the complex.

It's interesting that you pointed out Kanji's initial meeting with his shadow, as it showcases how incredibly sensitive his circumstance is.. it's only worse for him.

 

The game goes out of its way to paint a picture of Truth & Reconciliation. People are afraid to be true to themselves, and by shadowing all these feelings they find unnecessary, being plastic, and only living by the dichotomy of society it creates a monster/this dark side/shadow of themself that looms its ugly face, until it ultimately smothers them unless they be true to themselves.

[Chewin]

I'm aware Chris as what the game wants to convey. But that is not the issue here. My argument isn't about what the characters individually feel, since obviously the victim in question is not aware of what is going on. However, the investigation team is and they are the ones who are letting the shadow talk.

Yu, Chie, Yosuke and Yukiko are fully aware on what will happen once the victim gets taunted to initially reject the shadow. Yet not once, or twice but trice they let the shadow in question talk its way through before someone ultimately shouts "Wait stop!" (Which of course is already too late). They come across as rather incompetent, since what they should be doing is actually act instead of reacting. Mitsuo spiced it up since they were left confused. Kanji, Rise and Teddie should have had similar events, wherein the investigation team are left in a position wherein they can't interact with them victim, don't know what to do, or something similar. But with these three, they were fully capable but were silent (b/c the plot demanded it so).

The concept is great for sure, and what each individual characters brings forward is intriguing, but the execution on these instances could have been handled better regarding this particular issue.

[TheChris92]

I'm aware Chris as what the game wants to convey. But that is not the issue here. My argument isn't about what the characters individually feel, since obviously the victim in question is not aware of what is going on. However, the investigation team is and they are the ones who are letting the shadow talk.

Yu, Chie, Yosuke and Yukiko are fully aware on what will happen once the victim gets taunted to initially reject the shadow. Yet not once, or twice but trice they let the shadow in question talk its way through before someone ultimately shouts "Wait stop!" (Which of course is already too late). They come across as rather incompetent, since what they should be doing is actually act instead of reacting. Mitsuo spiced it up since they were left confused. Kanji, Rise and Teddie should have had similar events, wherein the investigation team are left in a position wherein they can't interact with them victim, don't know what to do, or something similar. But with these three, they were fully capable but were silent (b/c the plot demanded it so).

The concept is great for sure, and what each individual characters brings forward is intriguing, but the execution on these instances could have been handled better regarding this particular issue.

Play the game some more and you might understand things a bit better, but I'm gonna leave a spoiler warning since I probably can't avoid talking about it now.

I like to think that they have no business in deciding what the victim should do. They can't really accept his/her Shadow for them, sure they could have said that by refusing to accept the Shadow it would go beserk, so don't do it! The thing, however, is that it's not only the victim that is conflicted because the sea of souls is made up of the collective unconciousness of mankind.

 

I ADVICE NOT TO READ THE NEXT BIT -- IT'S PROBABLY BETTER TO LEAVE THIS ARGUMENT BE FOR NOW.

 

Spoiler

The shadows are as much the manifested form of the victim's repressed feelings, as it is an ugly exaggerated image that society draws of you. It's the ignorance of living in the fog and not seeking truth. The shadow is allowed to talk because it's not only the manifested form of the complex, born from the victim that was thrown into the TV, it's the image that the collective unconciousness of mankind draws of them (see Princess Yukiko on the Midnight Channel as an example).

[TheChris92]

Anyway, to distract things a bit, I just found this and it works so well!

 

[Chewin]

I could get behind the idea of the characters letting the shadow talk and having the victim in question face their struggles, but the problem is that the characters don't address this, they aren't intrested in it. The only thing they want is to save the victim from death, that's it. They see the shadow as an obstacle that they would rather not face, and with each consecutive victim they come to the conclusion that "fine, guess we have to defeat it and then have the person come to terms with themselves."

Had the characters activily talked about what, how and why, whether it is necessary or not, would make the scenarios more compelling, but since they aren't and solely concludes that saving them from death is the main goal, it doesn't help that the characters suddenly are allowing the shadows the opportunity to express whatever the wish to.

Even though the shadows are a manifestation of the individual's complex, I don't see how it hinders the others (since they are talking with each other, but not trying to stop it).

EDIT: But sure, we'll come back to this once I've beaten the game.

[TheChris92]

I could get behind the idea of the characters letting the shadow talk and having the victim in question face their struggles, but the problem is that the characters don't address this, they aren't intrested in it. The only thing they want is to save the victim from death, that's it. They see the shadow as an obstacle that they would rather not face, and with each consecutive victim they come to the conclusion that "fine, guess we have to defeat it and then have the person come to terms with themselves."

Had the characters activily talked about what, how and why, whether it is necessary or not, would make the scenarios more compelling, but since they aren't and solely concludes that saving them from death is the main goal, it doesn't help that the characters suddenly are allowing the shadows the opportunity to express whatever the wish to.

Even though the shadows are a manifestation of the individual's complex, I don't see how it hinders the others (since they are talking with each other, but not trying to stop it).

Let's just say it's partially due to the stuff I talked about in the spoiler section, and things will most likely be clearer later on. They want to save the victim, but given that they don't really know these victims personally, it's not their place to tell them right from wrong. Anything they would have said wouldn't have changed much because of that reason, but obviously they are futily trying to avoid the person from rejecting the shadow. They don't really know the functions of the TV World though, so much like the victims, they are still bewildered and it comes to a point where they know only one way to calm it down is to fight it. That, however, isn't what makes the Shadow be accepted of course.

 

Anyway, I suppose we can just agree to disagree for now. Otherwise we'll wind into spoiler territory.

[Chewin]

More impressions.

 

Spoiler

-MAH CABBAGES!!! Decided to be a huge nerd and study at home for once and completely forgot to harvest them! *sniff*

 

-Anyhow, having had the chance to more properly get to know Rise through her interactions and a few ranks in the SL, I've come to respect her a lot more as a character. While her SL seems to be more of a repeat on what she already went through, instead of having it focus on progression in a similar vein such as the other characters, I do like that it is a genuine and believable portrayal on self reflection. The game has already showcased several avenues in her dissolving from her persona Risette; using forms of association, abandoned display of emotions, identity, etc. as a means to convey it. While similar could be said for a lot of the other party members, considering how much the game revolves around the concept of coming in terms with yourself, I've found Rise's more relatable and meticulous in its approach (so far at least, I'm still only Rank 5 with her). I also like that she in a way subtly mirrors Yu's introduction to the game; meaning how she doesn't initially know anyone but quickly comes into contact with other people and how her Grandma views Rise as Tofu--something that is weak and fragile on its own, but can be mixed with almost anything and gets stronger for it, which is a funny but neat reflection on Narukami's role in the game. Similarities can be found with the other party members as well, and is more powerful depending on how you role play, but in my case Rise has fitted into the picture quite nicely. While I find the developments of the other party members more interesting, I do appreciate what Rise adds to the table.

 

- Visited Gekkoukan High. That was neat. Never expected to come that to happen. Admittedly I'd love to see more, but I was glad what I got. That part at Club Escapade was hilarious. Drunk Yuki and Rise was super cute. And of course this:

 

Spoiler

 

Narukami you smooth ass motherf*cker! I'm starting to understand why you are titled King of Swag!

 

- Firework scene was also great:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Yeah, loving the relationship and development with the Dojimas. Certainly one of the highlights for me.

 

- And Adachi you stupid! Stop making up excuses and spend time with meeeeeeeeh!!! November is closing in.

 

- Anyone else hate Marie social link? Ok hate is a strong word, but I'm currently Rank 8 with her and honestly I haven't found a reason to give a damn, which is funny since basically everyone else's SL I can relate to, or get something out of it. Only enjoyed Marie's so far since it has introduced the other characters into her link. Well maybe it pays of in the very end, but her's is currently the lowest ranked on my list (well her and the Day Care job, since I completely forgot about it and is still on Rank 2). 

 

- And since I want to complain more, and because I can; introduce Naoto already to the team. She looks interesting and I want her now!

[Recon Member]

Nice view on Rise. I myself completely missed her reflection of Yu. Heh, should have known that her being the Lover Arcana has some additional meaning. 

 

Narukami is based! No wonder he ranks high on Popularity Polls. 

 

But so does Brosuke.

[CrazyRah]

Any trip we make with the gang is a top candidate for best moment in the game. I completely love the gang in P4 so to get the chance to do it a few times with them is just perfect!

 

Also yes, yes and yes about Rise. Not mah gurl but she really add some amazing stuff to the composition