4593 réponses à ce sujet

[TheChris92]

Depends what you mean by the ending. IS ending is the middle of the game, EPs ending is still sad but it's not your typical tragic that Atlus is known for because it decided to do tragedy without death.

I obviously mean the ending to Innocent Sin, the self-contained Persona title that happens to have a direct sequel. That doesn't make its ending any less of an ending, like any of the Assassins Creed games.
 

Tatsuya, a man who must pay eternal punishment for one innocent sin he committed. Not to mention Nyarl is in full force in EP, in IS he was behind the scenes as the game was building up to his reveal, which was clear was going to happen after all the references that where being slowly revealed during the game(unlike the massive info dumps P3/4 decided to do which I hope Atlus changes, slowly reveal info of the big bad, don't just dump it all in big info dumps and have the player wonder half the time why they are doing X)

It is already made abundantly clear from the very moment the game begins, and the Dark Hour first appears, that the protagonist is somehow connected to it. There were enough foreshadowing and hints provided to pave way for who the true villain really is. Instead of it actually being an individual, in what one might perceive as being typical fashion, it's actually the combined malice of mankind that slowly kills itself. The way of how Persona 3 utilizes the fundementals of Sigmund Freud's Death Drive to provide exposition on the concepts of Nyx & the Dark Hour is well-done. It also presents the discussion of how we as humans can be considered the most evil creature of all, we're the ones slowly killing the Earth and everything we love around us. In Persona 3 this was done remarkably well.

 

In EP however he is very involved, and he is not playing anymore. He makes the life of the EP characters a living hell and shows what happens when you mess with the crawling chaos, who is still the best villain of the series imo.

See that's the the problem -- The developers took too much liberty in characterizing in what should have been a blank slate to a point that the player can no longer connect with him, because despite it all, he's still a mute and thus unable to react or feel in accordance with how the player feels. Eternal Punishment does the same mistake by suddenly making Maya a mute out of nowhere. It's quite jarring.

[Mr.House]

I obviously mean the ending to Innocent Sin, the self-contained Persona title that happens to have a direct sequel. That doesn't make its ending any less of an ending, like any of the Assassins Creed games.
 
It is already made abundantly clear from the very moment the game begins, and the Dark Hour first appears, that the protagonist is somehow connected to it. There were enough foreshadowing and hints provided to pave way for who the true villain really is. Instead of it actually being an individual, in what one might perceive as being typical fashion, it's actually the combined malice of mankind that slowly kills itself. The way of how Persona 3 utilizes the fundementals of Sigmund Freud's Death Drive to provide exposition on the concepts of Nyx & the Dark Hour is well-done. It also presents the discussion of how we as humans can be considered the most evil creature of all, we're the ones slowly killing the Earth and everything we love around us. In Persona 3 this was done remarkably well.

 
See that's the the problem -- The developers took too much liberty in characterizing in what should have been a blank slate to a point that the player can no longer connect with him, because despite it all, he's still a mute and thus unable to react or feel in accordance with how the player feels. Eternal Punishment does the same mistake by suddenly making Maya a mute out of nowhere. It's quite jarring.

I connect with Maya and Tatsuya just fine, better then Minato who is as blank as you can get to the point where he had little dialog to pick from.

[TheChris92]

Also playing with a mature grown up cast is what truly makes EP unique.

See, this is where I'm gonna raise my finger in protest. You're implying that maturity comes with age which isn't necessarily true. Maturity comes with the content of your character, and to some people it comes earlier than others. It can still be about High School students, and remain a mature game. Naoto, Kanji, Mitsuru, Yukari and others, they were all mature in their own way, they all had their teenage problems and they handled them like responsible human beings, that's being mature. I don't want a game with adolescents for the sake having one. I do wish for a game that branches into the college territory though because it would be a nice change of pace but it wouldn't really matter all that much if it doesn't end up like that.

[TheChris92]

I connect with Maya and Tatsuya just fine, better then Minato who is as blank as you can get to the point where he had little dialog to pick from.

Yeah, I get it - You liked the game obviously. But from a standpoint of someone who might be completely alien to the antics of Persona 2, the game wasn't very forthcoming. The presentation and pacing was abhorrent, and Maya & Tatsuya, two non-blank slates being blank slates for the sake of fulfilling a retarded JRPG status quo is not good game design.

[Mr.House]

See, this is where I'm gonna raise my finger in protest. You're implying that maturity comes with age which isn't necessarily true. Maturity comes with the content of your character, and to some people it comes earlier than others. It can still be about High School students, and remain a mature game. Naoto, Kanji, Mitsuru, Yukari and others, they were all mature in their own way, they all had their teenage problems and they handled them like responsible human beings, that's being mature. I don't want a game with adolescents for the sake having one. I do wish for a game that branches into the college territory though because it would be a nice change of pace but it wouldn't really matter all that much if it doesn't end up like that.

Except no character in P3 or 4 came close to the issues say Baofu had, not even close, because it would be imposable for a teen to have that.

[TheChris92]

Except no character in P3 or 4 came close to the issues say Baofu had, not even close, because it would be imposable for a teen to have that.

But what does that have to do with maturity though? The issues that the characters of P3 & P4 face might not necessarily mean much toa pre-schooler like Ken or what have you, but it reflects what we go through every single day of our lives. Naoto's struggle of trying to fit in and be recognized is something any one, of any age, can largely relate, and the gender discrimination is but the cream of the crop -- Ignoring that there is also Kanji's struggle with his own sexuality, and need to be accepted for the kind of person he is. Sure, they have their own troubles with school life, or girls in Yosuke's case, but they also have plenty of issues that are largely relevant to our materialistic society, where we still view humans as mere objects to be utilized for glory or personal gain. We are still far from perfect as the games themselves will dictate. The ability to manage personal jealousy and feelings of envy, about accepting the fact that you can’t always win, and learn from mistakes instead of whining about the outcome -- being able to differentiate between rational decision making and emotional impulse. It's important to realize that maturity is an ongoing process, not a state, and continuously striving for self improvement is half the battle.

I have no larger frame of reference on Eternal Punishment, given that it's a different game and that I'm largely talking about Innocent Sin I'd say it isn't that relevant to what we are talking about here anyway.

[Mr.House]

But what does that have to do with maturity though? The issues that the characters of P3 & P4 face might not necessarily mean much toa pre-schooler like Ken or what have you, but it reflects what we go through every single day of our lives. Naoto's struggle of trying to fit in and be recognized is something any one, of any age, can largely relate, and the gender discrimination is but the cream of the crop -- Ignoring that there is also Kanji's struggle with his own sexuality, and need to be accepted for the kind of person he is. Sure, they have their own troubles with school life, or girls in Yosuke's case, but they also have plenty of issues that are largely relevant to our materialistic society, where we still view humans as mere objects to be utilized for glory or personal gain. We are still far from perfect as the games themselves will dictate. The ability to manage personal jealousy and feelings of envy, about accepting the fact that you can’t always win, and learn from mistakes instead of whining about the outcome -- being able to differentiate between rational decision making and emotional impulse. It's important to realize that maturity is an ongoing process, not a state, and continuously striving for self improvement is half the battle.

I have no larger frame of reference on Eternal Punishment, given that it's a different game and that I'm largely talking about Innocent Sin I'd say it isn't that relevant to what we are talking about here anyway.

Still best team

[TheChris92]

I think your image failed


Anyway, behold. There is now a subbed trailer for Golden Arena Mode

[Ozzy]

It's a picture of the Eternal Punishment team. 

 

I think it would be great if they remade the, well, remakes of P2 in the brand new engine. Give it some new voice acting, modernish graphics and streamline a lot of its dated mechanics. Maybe join the two games into a single package. I dunno, it's a pipe dream but how I hope anyway. 

 

Having Maya show up in one of the newer games would be neat anyway. Especially if Nyarly makes a reappearance. 

[AventuroLegendary]

Oh, Laura Bailey. I've been spending a good amount of time on Saints Row 3 and it's just so awkward hearing Rise/Lucina/Jaina profane this much. 

[Ozzy]

You should try listening to her in Nier if that caught you by surprise. ;P

[Mr.House]

So right now I'm going to do a rant that Chris, Rah and Milian have already heard from me, but I'm a little peeved at Atlus and Q. I have no issues with Theo being "canon" because as a velvet room worker, he exists outside space and time. However when you outright say that Theo and Lizs guest is Minato, you're not even following your goddam own story. If you don't want to have Minako in the dam game, fine but at least try to stay true to your own goddam writing Atlus instead of ****** up continuity and just going "Oh Theo wast here too, he was just invisible." It's bs. Of course Minako could also be a secret character as there is one spot left for the rooster, but it's just getting annoying. I don't expect Atlus to give her more games but ffs at least have the decently to remember your own ****, this also fuels the trolls that go hur hur she, she never existed.

 

/rant

[Ozzy]

How would you propose including Minako in the game? 

 

Would she know the main cast but they don't know her? I think it's a lot easier to handwave Theo's existence than it is for Minako. 

[Mr.House]

How would you propose including Minako in the game? 

 

Would she know the main cast but they don't know her? I think it's a lot easier to handwave Theo's existence than it is for Minako. 

The problem is Atlus outright is ignoring their past writing and changing things because they don't want to put the effort in. Saying Minato is Theos guest IS a retcon. The reason why Minako is ignored is because Atlus keeps ignoring her and pulling crap like this because they want their blue aloof boy to be canon, screw existing writing!

 

Q is already wacky as it is with time and space messed up, it outright being said not to be canon and the fact that SEES time jumped two years, so ya having Minako in it would not have been a issue.

[CrazyRah]

The game is completely bonkers from what we've been shown so far, We got DEAD PEOPLE walking and kicking around in it. So not having Minako in it just screams lazy to me. It's not like adding her into the mix would make the game too crazy and "impossible" to be believeable.. 

[Mr.House]

The game is completely bonkers from what we've been shown so far, We got DEAD PEOPLE walking and kicking around in it. So not having Minako in it just screams lazy to me. It's not like adding her into the mix would make the game too crazy and "impossible" to be believeable.. 

It would also add alot of good lulz with her and Minato conversing.

[TheChris92]

Gonna go ahead and say it --I sort of agree with you both here. On one hand it is easier for Atlus to come up with a contrived reason for why Theo & Liz both could have been Minato's attendant. On another it doesn't excuse the fact that Theo doesn't exist in Male character's playthrough -- In retrospect, I've never understood what's so great about him and his stoic demeanor anyway. It just goes to show that Persona fanboys are tards.

[Liamv2]

Never played portable but I do wonder why they can't just let you choose between the two in Q. I guess voice actors could be a problem but beyond that I can't see anything.

[Mr.House]

Gonna go ahead and say it --I sort of agree with you both here. On one hand it is easier for Atlus to come up with a contrived reason for why Theo & Liz both could have been Minato's attendant. On another it doesn't excuse the fact that Theo doesn't exist in Male character's playthrough -- In retrospect, I've never understood what's so great about him and his stoic demeanor anyway. It just goes to show that Persona fanboys are tards.

Because somehow a blue hair kid with the emotion of a brick is more interesting then a woman who is upbeat and sarcastic but uses these as a personal shield to hide her suffering.

 

This is the same fanbase that does have people who romance and defend Ken so...

[AventuroLegendary]

Maybe they could include an "alternate realities" kind of deal to incorporate Minako in the story. Then again, things can get messy real fast, even with what we have now.

 

As a sidenote, why is there so much MinatoXMinako art? How does that even work? 

 

Because somehow a blue hair kid with the emotion of a brick is more interesting then a woman who is upbeat and sarcastic but uses these as a personal shield to hide her suffering.

 

This is the same fanbase that does have people who romance and defend Ken so...

 

You just don't understand, man. Minato is deep and meaningful. Like Shinji Ikari.

[Mr.House]

Maybe they could include an "alternate realities" kind of deal to incorporate Minako in the story. Then again, things can get messy real fast, even with what we have now.

 

As a sidenote, why is there so much MinatoXMinako art? How does that even work? 

 

 

You just don't understand, man. Minato is deep and meaningful. Like Shinji Ikari.

I've once spotted LizxTheo art, I was not amused.

 

As for Shinji, well.....

 

[AventuroLegendary]

Seen it two times already heh.

 

[TheChris92]

Narukami is evidently a more interesting protagonist -- First of all he involves himself in the plot instead of just standing around and let the plot involve him. Even if he doesn't have a voice, his mannerisms, occasional nods, and dialogue choice ranges his demeanor from being sarcastic, to calm, to kind and to easy going. His relationship with Kou & Daisuke feel natural and believeable. Even if the progression of relationships were a bit better handled in Persona 3, it does however feel like he can relate to his friends in Persona 4. He definitely deserves the praise he gets but I don't get why the blue haired bloke is as high as he is on the popular Persona characters list.

[Mr.House]

Narukami is evidently a more interesting protagonist -- First of all he involves himself in the plot instead of just standing around and let the plot involve him. Even if he doesn't have a voice, his mannerisms, occasional nods, and dialogue choice ranges his demeanor from being sarcastic, to calm, to kind and to easy going. His relationship with Kou & Daisuke feel natural and believeable. Even if the progression of relationships were a bit better handled in Persona 3, it does however feel like he can relate to his friends in Persona 4. He definitely deserves the praise he gets but I don't get why the blue haired bloke is as high as he is on the popular Persona characters list.

Minako should be in his spot tbh.

[TheChris92]

It also looks like The Nose is retired indefinitely. I get the feeling it'll just be the attendants who'll sign up for the duties of the Velvet Room now or someone else.