4593 réponses à ce sujet

[TheChris92]

I still hope that Maya shows up in some capacity. Well, only if Nyarly takes centre stage again as big bad again.

 

I know, it's not as if she has an internal Nyarly radar but it would be nice nonetheless. Plus, isn't it hinted that Mitsuru is gathering them all up for the Shadow Ops? 

That's speculation. The thing is that I see no reason to bring the characters back due to how that respective game ended in a similar fashion to bringing the Persona 3 protagonist back as well. Maya is done with the fighting and I don't particularly care for bringing back old main characters in the new main game because it seems a bit jaded, due to how little of relevance she'd bear with the new characters. I like cameos, that is to say -- I like cameos of NPC characters from previous games, or even better, something that not-so-physical, like music from previous games that give the right sense of nostalgia and plays in quite well with the game's flow.

[Mr.House]

Demons are a thing of the Shin Megami Tensei main games, which are no longer relevant to Persona now that it's become its own game.

The concepts have withdrawn from each other and developed differently. The background for Shadows are different from Demons to distinquish them away from Shin Megami Tensei.

Plenty of games that are not SMT  have demons in them, just because a game has the SMT title in the localized version does not mean it's a SMT game, as SMT is just another side series in the Megami Tensei series and the title was slapped on by Atlus USA for marketing on almost everything.

[Ozzy]

I just think that if there's a massive new threat, that it would make sense that Mitsuru would be collecting up people who've had experience with demons/shadows as they'd be best equipped to help deal with it and provide intel.

 

I certainly don't want P5 to be a cameofest or rely on past characters, I want it to be as fresh as possible, but I think with the threat that the world faces from the 'other side' that it would make sense to keep characters of note and experience to be involved in some way. Even if it's explored in a different game or medium while keeping P5 and main entries relatively free of past games. 

[Mr.House]

That's speculation. The thing is that I see no reason to bring the characters back due to how that respective game ended in a similar fashion to bringing the Persona 3 protagonist back as well. Maya is done with the fighting and I don't particularly care for bringing back old main characters in the new main game because it seems a bit jaded, due to how little of relevance she'd bear with the new characters. I like cameos, that is to say -- I like cameos of NPC characters from previous games, or even better, something that not-so-physical, like music from previous games that give the right sense of nostalgia and plays in quite well with the game's flow.

This I have to agree. I would like if they returned but when you look at a story reason. It makes no sense.

 

Spoiler

-Maya is done fighting and is working as a reporter, she even gave up her feelings on the Suo brothers so Tatsuya would not remember the events.

-Katsuya is busy being a detective and cooking on the side, while he hast he best chance of ever returning again there's no need because what he fought is not the samething SEES and IT are dealing with.

-Baofu and Ulala are now working together as investigators to find missing people, thus they are done fighting.

-Lisa, Jun and Michel have no memories of what happen in IS and they don't the ability to summon their persona

-Cast of Persona moved on from fighting and doing their own things

-Tatsuya has no memory at all because oft he ending of EP thus no knowledge of Nyarl, no persona ect.

[TheChris92]

To a degree, just as a persona is also technically a shadow. Tatsuyas scenario in EP which was created for the purpose of explaining why Persona series focused on shadows in P3/4 explains  why, just because it never got a localization does not mean it's not canon.

Everything is ultimately canon -- "Shadow refers to a part of the unconscious mind that symbolizes repressed weaknesses or faults, as outlined by the Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung". The demons are the same thing in Persona 2, but the background for them is a bit different, because the original games didn't run by the same exact rules as seen in Jungian Philosophy. Personas and Shadows -- The reasons why they are referred to as being the same thing is due to how its dictated by Jung. They are archetypes that make up for what Jung called the "Self" the unification of the collective unconscious and conscious of an individual. Essentially, a theory crafted by study sessions on patient that discusses the possibility of how mankind may share thoughts and dreams between each other through a collective network. Demons were essentially the same thing, but their origin was deviced closer to that of Lovecraftian mytho.

[Mr.House]

I just think that if there's a massive new threat, that it would make sense that Mitsuru would be collecting up people who've had experience with demons/shadows as they'd be best equipped to help deal with it and provide intel.

 

I certainly don't want P5 to be a cameofest or rely on past characters, I want it to be as fresh as possible, but I think with the threat that the world faces from the 'other side' that it would make sense to keep characters of note and experience to be involved in some way. Even if it's explored in a different game or medium while keeping P5 and main entries relatively free of past games. 

Again, the cast of Persona 1 and 2 are done. Most don't even remember the events, some don't have a persona anymore and others like Maya don't want to return for clear reasons.

 

The only one who might help Mitsuru is Katsuya, and even then. That might just be cop business, not persona stuff.

[TheChris92]

Again, the cast of Persona 1 and 2 are done. Most don't even remember the events, some don't have a persona anymore and others like Maya don't want to return for clear reasons.

 

The only one who might help Mitsuru is Katsuya, and even then. That might just be cop business, not persona stuff.

It's ultimately too late to implement them in Arena anyway for it to make any leak of sense, even if the ending of Eternal Punishment didn't go as it did. Nyarlathotep is most likely not the main villain -- We are thinking it's Ikutsuki and some other godly-being, who's behind this now.

[Mr.House]

Like would it be awesome to see them again? Hell yes, but shoehornign them in will do more damage then good. Do we really want another case of Marie-Sue?

[TheChris92]

We really don't. That's already bad enough.

[Ozzy]

I only would want to see them if they were properly implemented. Random shoe-horning and thoughtless integration isn't what I'm after at all. I think it would make sense if the threat was large enough. I doubt ice queen Mitsuru would care much for someone's reservations, not wanting to participate and the like, if she felt that their knowledge and the like was necessary. Obviously those who have amnesia would be useless unless the narrative decreed they remember. I guess I'm just keen for a wider world narrative in addition to the focused stories that we get. Blame The Cosmere. 

 

And Marvel.

[TheChris92]

But at this point it's pretty much too late -- Ultimax is the conclusion to their story, and any implementation of Persona 2 characters into it at this point would feel like shoe-horning. 

If there absolutely have to be Persona 2 cameos, then there might be references in Persona 5 but I doubt there's gonna be any cameos.

[Mr.House]

I can't see Mitsuru forcing people who don't want to fight and saw worse **** then her and people who can't even remember. It would be waaaaaaay OOC.

[Ozzy]

I'm obviously talking about future releases and the Personaverse in general. I know Ultimax's release is imminent, lol. I don't expect or desire the implementation of P2 characters or the like into the tale at this point of the dev cycle. 

 

If they had set it out from the beginning and weaved it in naturally, I wouldn't complain though. 

 

I can't see Mitsuru forcing people who don't want to fight and saw worse **** then her and people who can't even remember. It would be waaaaaaay OOC.

If she was desperate enough? If the stakes were high enough?

[Mr.House]

I'm obviously talking about future endeavours. I know Ultimax's release is imminent, lol. I don't expect or desire the implementation P2 characters or the like into the tale at this point of the dev cycle. 

 

If she was desperate enough? 

Mitsuru would do far more damage if she makes Jun, Michel, Lisa and Tatsuya remember the events. Must I remind you of the deal they made with Philemon and why they must not remember(something nyarl wanted and put alot of effort into doing and this possibly can happen if you pick the wrong dialog) It would also undermine Tatsuyas action at the end of EP.

[Ozzy]

I was more referring to her dragging Maya back into the fray. She's still got all her knowledge and her persona (doesn't she?). She clearly wants nothing more to do with that world and has lost a lot but that knowledge is something that I think Mitsuru would use if she felt it necessary.

 

I doubt ice queen Mitsuru would care much for someone's reservations, not wanting to participate and the like, if she felt that their knowledge and the like was necessary. Obviously those who have amnesia would be useless unless the narrative decreed they remember. 

 

Plus, having such a reluctant character return would be interesting. She would be certainly a completely different person. Bitter and warped by loss. I think that has interesting drama. We're obviously talking in hypotheticals here but the point I'm making is that extreme times would bring extreme measures. 

 

In the case of forcing those who forgot to remember (I don't even know how Mitsuru would do that, lol) it doesn't necessarily have to lead to a good outcome. Maybe it's done with the best intentions but ends up playing into Nyarly's hands. I'm not really fussed on this point though. Hence the ' unless the narrative decreed they remember' line, ha. 

 

I just really like heart boobs, ok? 

[TheChris92]

But you're assuming that there will be more games with Mitsuru and the Shadow Ops, which there won't be.. Cameos are fine as long as they are not main characters, because their implementation in new stories will alienate a lot of people, not to mention it'll seem redundant too. Also did you just quote yourself there?

[Mr.House]

I liked for the heart boobs.

 

Was never meant to be

[Ozzy]

No, not assuming. Hoping. Wishing. Being wistful. 

 

And yeah, I did. To emphasise that I wasn't focusing on the amnesia bunch. 

[TheChris92]

I think this relates to the discussion of people wanting the Warden and Hawke to return in DA3 of which I see no point given how they are irrelevant to the new story being told -- That is to say, a story that is no longer about them anymore. Stories become dry and redundant when we are dealing with the kind of series that don't center its focus in one place for too long before inevitably moving on to something new.

 

I think people should trust and believe that they can fall in love with new characters because that way everybody wins. There'll be more creativity, and things won't seem like rehashes of things that have been done before.

 

I get that this might sound a bit hypocritical -- What with Persona 4 getting a direct sequel to it and Persona 3's story, but I must say that I also generally prefer to just moving on to Persona 5. But then again, we were talking about the main games and not essentially just direct sequels, that are still spin-offs.

The main difference of course is that it's easier to build upon Persona 3 & 4 whereas with Persona 2 it is not.

[TheChris92]

No, not assuming. Hoping. Wishing. Being wistful. 

 

And yeah, I did. To emphasise that I wasn't focusing on the amnesia bunch. 

Yeah, okay, it's just funny the way you phrased it at the start "Plus, having such.." It sounded like you were having a discussion with yourself.

[Ozzy]

I leave conversations with myself to places other than online forums, thank you very much.

[TheChris92]

I leave conversations with myself to places other than online forums, thank you very much.

[Mr.House]

Really though I much rather have Minako,  I DON'T CARE, JUST MAKE HER PLAYABLE, NOT STICK HER IN THE STORY ;_;

[AventuroLegendary]

Yeesh, I'm scared of the Persona 2 discussion I created (For fear of EP spoilers). 

 

I don't want a continuation of the P2 Dualogy, just a nod that it all exists within the same universe, albeit in isolated events (no overarching buildup story). Maybe a harmless cameo or two.

 

I guess it depends on when it releases. We'll see if Atlus stick to the projected date or delay. 4U needs to get out of the way first though. 

Just keep an eye out for cheap systems though, even if they're refurbished. 

 

Indeed. It could go either way on that. If the PS4 didn't forgo backwards compatibility, it would be a simpler decision :\

[Mr.House]

Don't worry, any major EP(the end) spoilers I ensured where tagged.