Yu is laying down the law on Adachi in the latest episode.
I dislike how the show seemingly makes it seem like Yu is responsible for Adachi's creation, when what the game offers would contradict that, but I do enjoy how it elaborates on the signifigant differences and similarities between them.
Oh, and here's the real reason why Adachi was added to the Ultimax roster.
I like the extra backstory that hits a bit close to home in some areas.
What I don't like about it is its misrepresentation of Adachi's character -- In the end he seems somewhat sympathetic and misunderstood, which he really isn't. Adachi is a pathetic wretch who deliberately chose to kill someone because he was bored, he was tired of the world, tired of doing all that work and be a good detective and yet not receive anything for it. Soejima implies he was an excellent detective before he arrived in Inaba, so to kill the time he chose to give into despair. This episode implies that he's just a loner who needs people in his life to fulfill him, when the truth is... in reality, he's just an a-hole and a murderer, there's nothing else to it.
You do not NEED a sad or tough upbrining to become an a-hole, anymore than you need a safe and comfortable one to become a friendly, social and successful man. It's up to you how you live and what to do with yourself, and no matter your background, you can always make something remarkable out of yourself if you try to.
Adachi represents the opposite of Yu, the person who rejects life and "hope" and chooses to let the blissful shadows of ignorance and doubt to consume him.
What I like about Persona 4 is that while there are some implications that he's doing better in prison, he's still seemingly the same douchebag, as Ultimax would add as well. I prefer Adachi to be this way, honestly. Otherwise, I liked the confrontation well enough.
I've always prefered more sympathetic antagonists but your view does make much more sense.
I find sympathetic antagonists to be somewhat cheap especially when its inconsistent with their characterization. Need I remind anyone of Tales of Graces and why its antagonist represents everything I loathe about making a villain "misunderstood" for the sake of effortless shock value and cheapen the entire journey?
I've talked about it before in regards to Adachi. A lot of people seemingly dislike the character because he appears as a somewhat simplicit antagonist to the crew of Persona 4, ignoring how his motivations, backstory and and general output deconstructs your a-typical JRPG antagonist.. Not to mention how he's seemingly been written as a person, like you and me, whose simply self-consciously given up on life and embraced self-loathing. That he did it "for the lulz," is hardly a fitting motivation at first glance. You see, there's a larger reason for his actions and it relates back to a term that's been referenced, several times, in the game. It's called "Ressentiment" , and it's defined as a philosophical construct wherein one assigns blame and directs hostility to those which he considers superior, creating a scapegoat and avoiding culpability for one's own. This is the exact phrasing one would use to describe a man, like Adachi, especially given his boss-fight monologue about only "talent" mattering in the world he wanted to wipe away. It's at points like this, where you'd stop and consider whether that was the intent in the Japanese version too, or if it was added in as part of the localization process. If the latter, I applaud that move and respect Atlus' localization teams even more.
In a way, Adachi acted as the player's "shadow self," a void of a man that acts without conscience or reason. Where the player's talent uplifts those around him, Adachi uses his power to do whatever he likes, just as he became a policeman for want of a gun license and power trip. It's even implied that his assignment to Inaba was an act of punishment for some unrevealed sin, further emphasizing that he was a total dick. A total dick, but he was good at what he did though.
He seemingly earns a shred of redemption via his "true ending" letter, but it doesn't change the fact that he is pathetic beyond pity. Rather than some mastermind out for conquest or a destructive brute, Adachi's just a guy with a weapon and nothing else to do with it, making him a frightening and compelling villain, an example of what humanity can end up as when they've given up on hope.
I feel they expanded more on his character here than changed it. His motivation for the two murders are still as impulsive as they originally were, so he still comes off as largely a sociopath to me, and not particularly sympathetic. He's actively anti-social and rejects people who try and get close to him or in some way disappoint his expectations(as was the case with the murder victims), this seems to ultimately be the case with Yu and the old lady who was cooking for him. He's been shown to be largely anti-social with his relationship to Dojima being the only exception(but that's largely consistent with the original game), so I see this as signs of him actively rejecting people because he feels he doesn't particularly need them outside of maybe Dojima who he seems to respect to a certain degree. His reflection and letter from prison make a little bit more sense to me with this new context of his relationship with the investigation team and Dojima as well. From a certain perspective you can say they were he managed to form an attachment with them despite himself throughout the event of the story and only sends them the letter as a result. I wouldn't say the letter absolves him in any way but serves to emphasize the complexity of his involvement with the group and in a was serves as a begrudging admission of Adachi having formed a bond with them.
I feel they expanded more on his character here than changed it. His motivation for the two murders are still as impulsive as they originally were, so he still comes off as largely a sociopath to me, and not particularly sympathetic. He's actively anti-social and rejects people who try and get close to him or in some way disappoint his expectations(as was the case with the murder victims), this seems to ultimately be the case with Yu and the old lady who was cooking for him. He's been shown to be largely anti-social with his relationship to Dojima being the only exception(but that's largely consistent with the original game), so I see this as signs of him actively rejecting people because he feels he doesn't particularly need them outside of maybe Dojima who he seems to respect to a certain degree. His reflection and letter from prison make a little bit more sense to me with this new context of his relationship with the investigation team and Dojima as well. From a certain perspective you can say they were he managed to form an attachment with them despite himself throughout the event of the story and only sends them the letter as a result. I wouldn't say the letter absolves him in any way but serves to emphasize the complexity of his involvement with the group and in a was serves as a begrudging admission of Adachi having formed a bond with them.
Except that's not how he's portrayed in the anime -- The deliberate usage of flashbacks to a seemingly irrelevant time in his life in high school, where he rejects offers of social interaction with his peers. The problem I have with it is that it's not part of the game so I can't exactly relate it to how he is in the game, especially considering he's general disposition with Yu in the game was entirely dismissive, even when he was beaten -- He basically said "finish it". In the anime, the creators seemingly wants to make him feel like a sympathetic guy who "just needs a hug" to get all better, especially as soon as Yu beats him up -- He's like "The difference betweens us is that you have a bond" -- He phrases this in a somewhat hesitant and regrettable fashion, almost as if he craves what Yu has, whereas in the game he loathes and doesn't care one bit for it. That part made me want to cough up blood because it seemingly warps the general story of Persona 4 into another generic story about the power of friendship, whereas the truth is that it's much more than that cliché bullocks.
One thing I'll say though -- While Persona 4 The Golden Animation might be a steeming fanservice turd that generally spits all over the game for the sake of some Marie shoo-horning. It is at least not like Trinity Souls.. Goodness sake.
I understood with what they where trying to do with him being a loner(after all that was also in the game, they just extended it in the anime) but they kinda went a bit too far in the sympathetic light which I don't like. Adachi was never meant to be a sympathetic character. While you can understand him and point out somethings he says are true, it does not change the fact that he is scum. He killed people because he was bored and wanted to have fun. Many aspects led to this but the big aspect is because he is an ******* and this is something that will never changed. As Chris pointed out, even in prison with him changing his way, he is still an ass and loves to mess with people. This goes further then being a loner, and they did not have to make him sympathetic for that.
I think the anime team took the Yu and Adachi connection(which was primary, Yu could have turned out like Adachi if it was not for his bounds) and misinterpreted it. Now the confrontation was extremely well done but I do think they went a bit too far and lost track of what makes Adachi tick.
I wonder what sort of Marie-related nonsense they are going to spend the last 5 episodes on though.
The anime might actually manage to end near the release of the game in America at this rate.
Five episodes of Marie-Sue, dear god. I might just not even bother since Adachi parts(which where the best) are done with. Unless we get more scenes with IT and less Marie just eh.
Except that's not how he's portrayed in the anime -- The deliberate usage of flashbacks to a seemingly irrelevant time in his life in high school, where he rejects offers of social interaction with his peers. The problem I have with it is that it's not part of the game so I can't exactly relate it to how he is in the game, especially considering he's general disposition with Yu in the game was entirely dismissive, even when he was beaten -- He basically said "finish it". In the anime, the creators seemingly wants to make him feel like a sympathetic guy who "just needs a hug" to get all better, especially as soon as Yu beats him up -- He's like "The difference betweens us is that you have a bond" -- He phrases this in a somewhat hesitant and regrettable fashion, almost as if he craves what Yu has, whereas in the game he loathes and doesn't care one bit for it. That part made me want to cough up blood because it seemingly warps the general story of Persona 4 into another generic story about the power of friendship, whereas the truth is that it's much more than that cliché bullocks.
It depends on how you intemperate that imagery really. To me the flash back wasn't irreverent it just shows how Adachi's perspective was formed and reinforced over time. "The difference between us is that you have a bond" is meant to show exactly that Adachi is very much the antithesis of Yu as you mentioned earlier, and Yu's reply shows that Adachi does in fact have at least one bond despite himself as I mentioned earlier. The power of friendship has always been a part of the story, I don't feel they're whitewashing over the complexity involved with these friendships much either. One of Adachi's lines quite pointedly remarks about how they can't be real friends after seeing each others shadows but we know that's not true. if they do anything wrong it's that they don't delve very deeply to explicitly state how complex these relationships are, the implication is still there though.
The fist fight was the teaser for Ultimax. rematch coming soon!
It depends on how you intemperate that imagery really. To me the flash back wasn't irreverent it just shows how Adachi's perspective was formed and reinforced over time. "The difference between us is that you have a bond" is meant to show exactly that Adachi is very much the antithesis of Yu as you mentioned earlier, and Yu's reply shows that Adachi does in fact have at least one bond despite himself as I mentioned earlier. The power of friendship has always been a part of the story, I don't feel they're whitewashing over the complexity involved with these friendships much either. One of Adachi's lines quite pointedly remarks about how they can't be real friends after seeing each others shadows but we know that's not true. if they do anything wrong it's that they don't delve very deeply to explicitly state how complex these relationships are, the implication is still there though.
Except that's not how the anime choose to interpret it through the actions of Adachi and Yu, not to mention the deliberate use of these flashbacks. The game didn't need the irrelevant flashbacks to Adachi's school life, because it sends a different message then what was originally intended. There doesn't need to be a source, no tragedy, not even an explanation for why humans do what they do, or why Adachi did what he did. Because he already said what he did and there's no larger deeper meaning behind it. Essentially, though, that's what makes him compelling but also dangerous.
The way he phrased it and how Yu seemingly breaks through to him until he arbitrarily turns into Ameno-Sagiri out of nowhere, it implies a different meaning than with the game. It colours him not as a pathetic wretch of a man, but a loner who just needs a hug like your average cliché anime story. They are whitewashing over the complexity by ignoring the central core exchanges between Adachi, Yu and the rest of the cast, and the writing (just like the previous anime) feels lessened and shallow in comparison to the game. The distinct difference is clear though since the anime team isn't the Persona-studio who is making the game, so the adaptation and differences in quality is clear.
Essentially, Yu never really befriends Adachi any more than he does with several of the characters in the game -- He develops a mutual bond of understanding, not friendship, which is where the misinterpration and misunderstading lies.. The general concept of Persona 3 & 4 is to grant a larger understanding of life and death, the reality and inevitability of facing ones own mortality and how death affects the characters individually, and in 4 it's to grasp an understanding of the world without looking back or let yourself be blinded by doubt, shallowness or weaknesses.. I sort of covered that a while back. You build relationships with people to strengthen your Personas, the facets of facing life challenges that we all have, so in that sense you can shallowly argue the "power of friendship"'s integration into the story if you will but I'd hardly argue it a factor. The anime has basically skewered the plot so thin you could spread it on a croissant.
To add to my final line -- Perhaps the problem lies in how overtly and blatantly rushed this whole Adachi thing felt at some points -- Not to mention the annoying shoo-horning of Marie into the whole debacle. Eeeew.
Marie-Sue can play counselor now. She leaves me in awe.
Marie: "It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you"
Yu: You always know exactly what to say - Now, if you'll excuse me, I shall take your awe-inspiring words to heart and channel them into raw energy that I may use to convert villainous cur like Adachi into another BEST-FRIEND-EVAR!".
Hey Chris for the lulz, since you're way better then me in arena I should play as Marie and you should play as Adachi, and kick my ass. We both win.
Hey Chris for the lulz, since you're way better then me in arena I should play as Marie and you should play as Adachi, and kick my ass. We both win.
That sounds like an excellent idea. I'll throw you into the TV world just for the occasion.
Except that's not how the anime choose to interpret it through the actions of Adachi and Yu, not to mention the deliberate use of these flashbacks. The game didn't need the irrelevant flashbacks to Adachi's school life, because it sends a different message then what was originally intended. There doesn't need to be a source, no tragedy, not even an explanation for why humans do what they do, or why Adachi did what he did. Because he already said what he did and there's no larger deeper meaning behind it. Essentially, though, that's what makes him compelling but also dangerous.
The way he phrased it and how Yu seemingly breaks through to him until he arbitrarily turns into Ameno-Sagiri out of nowhere, it implies a different meaning than with the game. It colours him not as a pathetic wretch of a man, but a loner who just needs a hug like your average cliché anime story. They are whitewashing over the complexity by ignoring the central core exchanges between Adachi, Yu and the rest of the cast, and the writing (just like the previous anime) feels lessened and shallow in comparison to the game. The distinct difference is clear though since the anime team isn't the Persona-studio who is making the game, so the adaptation and differences in quality is clear.
Essentially, Yu never really befriends Adachi any more than he does with several of the characters in the game -- He develops a mutual bond of understanding, not friendship, which is where the misinterpration and misunderstading lies.. The general concept of Persona 3 & 4 is to grant a larger understanding of life and death, the reality and inevitability of facing ones own mortality and how death affects the characters individually, and in 4 it's to grasp an understanding of the world without looking back or let yourself be blinded by doubt, shallowness or weaknesses.. I sort of covered that a while back. You build relationships with people to strengthen your Personas, the facets of facing life challenges that we all have, so in that sense you can shallowly argue the "power of friendship"'s integration into the story if you will but I'd hardly argue it a factor. The anime has basically skewered the plot so thin you could spread it on a croissant.
Well I disagree with most of this, but let's just leave it as two people seeing different things while looking at the same thing.
I find sympathetic antagonists to be somewhat cheap especially when its inconsistent with their characterization. Need I remind anyone of Tales of Graces and why its antagonist represents everything I loathe about making a villain "misunderstood" for the sake of effortless shock value and cheapen the entire journey?
I vastly depends on context. Adachi being unabashedly evil is refreshing because a lot of sympathetic villains are badly done.
"Why are you doing this?"
"My wife was murdered a long time ago and-"
"And you're fulfilling her wishes by ending the world?"
"...you just don't understand."
You know what I hope for P5. The main persona for the MC is Mara.
+50 if female protag.
You know what I hope for P5. The main persona for the MC is Mara.
+50 if female protag.
Just the option to play a Female protagonist, even if she's not canon, would make me weep buckets of joy. After playing P3P with Minako, playing P4 with no female option sucked. Making Yu flirt with Yosuke and Kanji is about my only joy... 
Just the option to play a Female protagonist, even if she's not canon, would make me weep buckets of joy. After playing P3P with Minako, playing P4 with no female option sucked. Making Yu flirt with Yosuke and Kanji is about my only joy...
Minako got guys, got to flirt with girls, gor female robot loving and got romantic implications for Mitsuru, Yukari and Liz. They had to change Mitsurus s-rank 10 in NA because instead of a movie they took a private bath together, which would have been taken vastly different there, so we got a movie, that still had implications. Minako is just filled with massive win. Plus you can carry Mara and talk to Liz/Theo with it.
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