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I have to admit that this character is interesting me even though my initial impression of her was that of a snob. I hope she speaks with an English accent, and if she sounds like Garnet from Steven Universe then yea, I will be happy
I'm hoping for a Caribbean one, myself -- the Barbados accent is made for strength and grace.
If this Nevarran nobody is actually a threat,
He is Nevarran ambassador. If he returns back Nevarra will have chance to start war with Orlais, there are already Civil War.
Telling from the first chapter of The Masked Empire, blatant insults are very common in the Game. Gaspard's insults weren't very complicated, I must say. From what I could tell, she was layering her insults and threats with niceties and utmost politeness.
Fererlden is weak land and they have cold war. Nevarra is strong and dangerous.
Still, she is possibly defusing some conflict that would arise within the Orlesian nobles, should he crash the party. I doubt Nevarra would attack Orlais just because their ambassador came running home with tears in his eyes. Orlesian nobles would make a worse uproar, since their pride would be hurt by his appearance. I doubt that the mage allied with Celene would be so stupid as to provoke something. Those involved with Celene, including her guard, are good at playing the Game, even if they care nothing for it.
Being rude to an ambassador with words in a letter is hardly a reason for a whole nation to go to war, especially, when confronted to a great Nation like Orlais, where you could lose points, even if there's a civil war.
Celene seems actually weak, and her situation bad against Gaspard. So, if you are weak, do not show weakness. Shows confidence.
He is Nevarran ambassador. If he returns back Nevarra will have chance to start war with Orlais, there are already Civil War.
Ambassadors are very vulnerable at foreign courts. They are outsiders, even among other ambassadors, they can be recalled or expelled on a whim, and if that happens they lose their proximity to court, their job, their access to, say, Countesses who they fancy, and their political influence. Our man Niccolo M was ambassador to Spain for a time; when war broke out, he was blamed, recalled and tortured. If Vivienne has the ear of the Empress, no mere foreign ambassador will gainsay her. Unless they are insane.
Telling from the first chapter of The Masked Empire, blatant insults are very common in the Game. Gaspard's insults weren't very complicated, I must say. From what I could tell, she was layering her insults and threats with niceties and utmost politeness.
Well, I saw the insults and the threats, but I didn't see much politeness beyond a few pretty turns of phrase. You don't call an ambassador "darling" unless you are addressing them from an adjacent pillow. You certainly don't take it upon yourself to list their shortcomings. It was ham-fisted, and as I say, if it were made public, it would reflect badly on her rather than on the person she was writing to.
If she'd had a minion visit this chap, and say the things she'd written, that would be different; no one could trace it to her.
ETA: Is it possible she's trying to goad him into something she can hang him with?
Fererlden is weak land and they have cold war. Nevarra is strong and dangerous.
Orlais is Orlais, though. And even as strong as they are, I suspect the Nevarrans have little to gain by war with Orlais. Not to mention, as above, what the ambassador would stand to lose personally.
Ambassadors are very vulnerable at foreign courts. They are outsiders, even among other ambassadors, they can be recalled or expelled on a whim, and if that happens they lose their proximity to court, their job, their access to, say, Countesses who they fancy, and their political influence. Our man Niccolo M was ambassador to Spain for a time; when war broke out, he was blamed, recalled and tortured. If Vivienne has the ear of the Empress, no mere foreign ambassador will gainsay her. Unless they are insane.
Well, I saw the insults and the threats, but I didn't see much politeness beyond a few pretty turns of phrase. You don't call an ambassador "darling" unless you are addressing them from an adjacent pillow. You certainly don't take it upon yourself to list their shortcomings. It was ham-fisted, and as I say, if it were made public, it would reflect badly on her rather than on the person she was writing to.
If she'd had a minion visit this chap, and say the things she'd written, that would be different; no one could trace it to her.
Orlais is Orlais, though. And even as strong as they are, I suspect the Nevarrans have little to gain by war with Orlais. Not to mention, as above, what the ambassador would stand to lose personally.
Well, in terms of if this was made public, I don't believe it'd look bad on her part. Well, at least in Orlais. The noble crowd seems to side with who is most amusing, and that was very amusing. It wasn't like she was screaming insults and threats at him; that would be unbecoming. Overall, her letter was a warning, and a promise, at that. Still, though, the letter isn't particularly dangerous, to her or Orlais. It'd be far more dangerous for him to come unannounced and uninvited to a party of nobles.
Well, in terms of if this was made public, I don't believe it'd look bad on her part. Well, at least in Orlais. The noble crowd seems to side with who is most amusing, and that was very amusing. It wasn't like she was screaming insults and threats at him; that would be unbecoming. Overall, her letter was a warning, and a promise, at that. Still, though, the letter isn't particularly dangerous, to her or Orlais. It'd be far more dangerous for him to come unannounced and uninvited to a party of nobles.
Well said. This is exactly what I think.
. It'd be far more dangerous for him to come unannounced and uninvited to a party of nobles.
That's my point; it'd be very dangerous for him.
She, as hostess, could have the guards remove him with perfect equanimity. Or indeed, she could do it herself, with as sharp a tongue as ever there was, and no one would blame her, because as the hostess, she's the wronged party. He'd be seriously shamed, she'd just be doing her duties as hostess.
So why is she bringing out the big guns, referring to the End of days and so forth? It's almost as though she's threatened.
That's my point; it'd be very dangerous for him.
She, as hostess, could have the guards remove him with perfect equanimity. Or indeed, she could do it herself, with as sharp a tongue as ever there was, and no one would blame her, because as the hostess, she's the wronged party. He'd be seriously shamed, she'd just be doing her duties as hostess.
So why is she bringing out the big guns, referring to the End of days and so forth? It's almost as though she's threatened.
Well, not dangerous for him, necessarily... But his appearance at the party in general would bode terribly for the Orlesian view of Nevarra. He is the ambassador after all; he represents Nevarra as a whole while not being its leader. His appearance at the party isn't dangerous because he'd be thrown out. It's dangerous because Orlesian pride is a fragile thing, at best. The Orlesians would cause an outcry at the unrefined Nevarran savage who is disrespecting their culture. Throwing him out is a reaction to an action that should have been diverted in the first place. Her pro-activity in handling this would spare Orlais the wounds to their pride. Besides, bringing out the big guns in these situations is needed, because he is an ambassador. This is powerful diffusion because Nevarra is a country Orlais can't exactly risk war with.
I felt behind the strong language, that Vivienne felt sincerily angry, and threatened to be honest.
Well, not dangerous for him, necessarily... But his appearance at the party in general would bode terribly for the Orlesian view of Nevarra. He is the ambassador after all; he represents Nevarra as a whole while not being its leader. His appearance at the party isn't dangerous because he'd be thrown out. It's dangerous because Orlesian pride is a fragile thing, at best. The Orlesians would cause an outcry at the unrefined Nevarran savage who is disrespecting their culture. Throwing him out is a reaction to an action that should have been diverted in the first place. Her pro-activity in handling this would spare Orlais the wounds to their pride. Besides, bringing out the big guns in these situations is needed, because he is an ambassador. This is powerful diffusion because Nevarra is a country Orlais can't exactly risk war with.
But she can warn him off without resorting to rudeness and threats. She can perfectly politely tell him it will not go well for him if he dares show his face; why the theatrics? They are dangerous to her. Like I said - more Mean-Girl than Machiavellian. If she's supposed to be an example of Orlesian political finesse, colour me unimpressed.
Clearly, I just don't get Orlesians. I know they are Imperialist, but most Imperialists would mock and belittle a savage who didn't understand their ways, not be outraged or threatened by them, even if (actually, historically speaking, especially if) they presented some sort of threat. And that's something Vivienne could play into, compounding his embarrassment, torpedoing his social status and defusing the situation. Imagine if she decided to take him down, in a loud and kind voice, in front of everybody, begging the room's forgiveness, as he was just a simple Nevarran who couldn't possibly have known any better, while having him thrown out on his ass.
But she can warn him off without resorting to rudeness and threats. She can perfectly politely tell him it will not go well for him if he dares show his face; why the theatrics? They are dangerous to her. Like I said - more Mean-Girl than Machiavellian. If she's supposed to be an example of Orlesian political finesse, colour me unimpressed.
Clearly, I just don't get Orlesians. I know they are Imperialist, but most Imperialists would mock and belittle a savage who didn't understand their ways, not be outraged or threatened by them, even if (actually, historically speaking, especially if) they presented some sort of threat. And that's something Vivienne could play into, compounding his embarrassment, torpedoing his social status and defusing the situation. Imagine if she decided to take him down, in a loud and kind voice, in front of everybody, begging the room's forgiveness, as he was just a simple Nevarran who couldn't possibly have known any better, while having him thrown out on his ass.
It's less pressure on her back to diffuse that sort of situation before it even arose. Of course, I'm sure she would attempt to resolve it if he showed his face at her party. But, simply put, that's more dangerous, especially if there are nobles who want war for any thrice-blasted reason. If she simply stops him from showing his face at all, she doesn't have to deal with him in the slightest. Besides, the theatrics in insults are probably everything to Orlesians. Simply saying something directly would be barbaric and savage, I'm sure.
In the excerpt of the masked empire, we saw that a few
But she can warn him off without resorting to rudeness and threats. She can perfectly politely tell him it will not go well for him if he dares show his face; why the theatrics? They are dangerous to her. Like I said - more Mean-Girl than Machiavellian. If she's supposed to be an example of Orlesian political finesse, colour me unimpressed.
Clearly, I just don't get Orlesians. I know they are Imperialist, but most Imperialists would mock and belittle a savage who didn't understand their ways, not be outraged or threatened by them, even if (actually, historically speaking, especially if) they presented some sort of threat. And that's something Vivienne could play into, compounding his embarrassment, torpedoing his social status and defusing the situation. Imagine if she decided to take him down, in a loud and kind voice, in front of everybody, begging the room's forgiveness, as he was just a simple Nevarran who couldn't possibly have known any better, while having him thrown out on his ass.
I don't agree with you. The appearance of the ambassador is more dangerous than him not being at the party. I think Vivienne has done well. I'm certain the ambassador will think very seriously, carefully now if he comes to the party or not. He could totally feel that the game might be dangerous for him ( as a man who might think he's a respected man. I don't think an ambassador want to be ashamed and he has now a few examples what he could expect ) and maybe for Nevarra.
Also, it is interesting to notice that many nobles do not support Celene, and in the excerpt of the masked empire, some guards are loyal to Gaspard. The noble party and the orlesian game during this kind of event might be a risk for Vivienne too. Nobody is assured to win to me and she might know it very well. The game seems very complicated.
In the excerpt of the masked empire, we saw that a few
I don't agree with you. The appearance of the ambassador is more dangerous than him being at the party. I think Vivienne has done well. I'm certain the ambassador will think very seriously, carefully now if he comes to the party or not. He could totally feel that the game might be dangerous for him ( as a man who might think he's a respected man. I don't think an ambassador want to be ashamed and he has now a few examples what he could expect ) and maybe for Nevarra.
That doesn't explain the rudeness, the threats and the theatrics. She doesn't need to resort to them -- see my precis, above, of a letter which would have had just the same effect, without the inflated rhetoric. If she's supposed to be Machiavellian, I mean. If she's just a courtly bully, throwing her weight around, that's different, of course. And we won't know until DAI is actually out, I guess.
That doesn't explain the rudeness, the threats and the theatrics. She doesn't need to resort to them -- see my precis, above, of a letter which would have had just the same effect, without the inflated rhetoric. If she's supposed to be Machiavellian, I mean. If she's just a courtly bully, throwing her weight around, that's different, of course. And we won't know until DAI is actually out, I guess.
You're thinking about this like a dirty Fereld- Nevermind. Just gonna stop there. 
That doesn't explain the rudeness, the threats and the theatrics. She doesn't need to resort to them -- see my precis, above, of a letter which would have had just the same effect, without the inflated rhetoric. If she's supposed to be Machiavellian, I mean. If she's just a courtly bully, throwing her weight around, that's different, of course. And we won't know until DAI is actually out, I guess.
She's orlesian. Didn't know it needed more explanations than that. Gaspard blatantly insulted the ambassador Teagan with the same rudeness, and everyone at the party was laughing.
Nevarra is on the verge of a civil war too, since the direct heir doesn't want the throne, the other relatives (Pentaghast and Van Markham) want the throne for themselves (and there's not just one for each family), and the other nobles think it's time for a new Noble House on the throne.Fererlden is weak land and they have cold war. Nevarra is strong and dangerous.
That doesn't explain the rudeness, the threats and the theatrics. She doesn't need to resort to them -- see my precis, above, of a letter which would have had just the same effect, without the inflated rhetoric. If she's supposed to be Machiavellian, I mean. If she's just a courtly bully, throwing her weight around, that's different, of course. And we won't know until DAI is actually out, I guess.
I half agree with you. When I first read the letter I was also put off by the undisguised insults and threats.
But then I thought... it's not like they call her the Lady of Subtlety. She hasn't been described as a Littlefinger-esque snake in the grass. No, she's the Lady of Iron, and I'm sure there's a good reason for the title. Moreover, it's possible to exercise strength and brutality with cunning. I'm sure there are situations where she must flex her muscles and assert her dominance. This is especially if she feels it's necessary to nip it in the bud.
That said I still can't shake the feeling that it could have been better written, but as you said, we'll have to wait until we actually interact with her. Until then I'll try to keep an open mind and remember that the nature of her entire career cannot be assumed from this letter.
You're thinking about this like a dirty Fereld- Nevermind. Just gonna stop there.
Yeah. Damn my practicality and logic. 
Vivienne is not nice.
Vivienne can probably be very mean.
Mean is not Machiavellian. And mean is a weakness. It leaves you vulnerable. Still no one ever said she had to be smart. She'll be a lot more fun to manipulate this way ...
Yeah. Damn my practicality and logic.
Mean is not Machiavellian. And mean is a weakness. It leaves you vulnerable. Still no one ever said she had to be smart. She'll be a lot more fun to manipulate this way ...
I was about to tease you about being a Ferelden dog, but judging from your icon---
You're making it too easy, my dear~ 
I do agree that, from a Doylist perspective, the letter could have written considerably better. More subtlety, calm, deceptively polite passive-aggressiveness would have worked better to demonstrate her character; it would actively show not just how she is brutal and merciless, but cunning and clever, that she never loses her cool, and that she is intimidating without any need of her magic. Of course, it's just one little snippet we got of her character, and a pretty short one, but still, she is supposed to be guile (I think that very word was used in one of the updates) and that so far feels more told than shown in that letter. Such direct, blunt threats don't quite fit the descriptions we've been given so far.
On the other hand from a Watsonian perspective, there could be plenty of reasons, as already discussed here, that she'd take that sort of approach. So I'm willing to shrug it off. I was also just thinking that her directness might be a way of communicating her disdain- that it could be a way of saying, "you are so low and unworthy of my time I won't even bother to make the effort to be polite or mask how I really feel about you". So here's to hoping the writing for her within the game itself will be good. Given how Mary Kirby wrote both Merrill and Varric, I'm not too worried.
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