103 réponses à ce sujet

[Spectre slayer]

Eh? Where did you draw this from? Unless I've missed something somewhere, the Qunari Mage was formerly Saarebas:



*source* (I'd think Mark Darrah accidentally skimmed over 'how' in that sentence, but do note "freed" seems to indicate former imprisonment).


As for the rest, I've gone into detail about it in my own thread here: http://forum.bioware...arebas-vashoth/

Spoiler

But due to the nature of Qunlat and my initially poor phrasing, the topic didn't hit off steadily (as in, the first responses were confusing).
Nevertheless, the subject boiled down to this - if a Qunari Mage came from the Qun as a Saarebas, how are they somehow a Vashoth?

Reading into lore surrounding Saarebas makes it incredibly unlikely one could leave peacefully (one definition of Vashoth), otherwise:


For the other definition. My thoughts on this (to solve either issue) are these:

1) The formerly Saarebas is merely a 'Vashoth' now in name only (as a disguise). In reality, they're actually a Tal-Vashoth.
Either still being on the run from the Qunari or having escaped their Antaam completely (by political immunity perhaps?).

2) They escaped their handlers stealthily and have since completely eluded *any* confrontation from them.
Albeit (logistically) doubtful and makes one question why they don't naturally have the Rogue class as well.

They ruled out the bound Sarrebas version ( even a freed one) awhile ago during the podcasts from NA (to be more specific the playable race one 20+ minutes in) and what he meant was that it wouldn't work of they did that.

Also as littbird said you were present in that thread and you knew you were wrong and have been corrected then since Gaider said all pc Qunari will be Vashoth.

I'm wagering you'll play as a Kossith (archaic term for the horned people) born outside the Qun.
Edit: It seems I have a correction monkey lurking beneath me.

[ianvillan]

What if a small group of "Qunari" joined up with a Dalish tribe. The keepers could train the mages and the Qunari would add a lot to the protection of the tribe. Both are outsiders and unwanted by the Human kingdoms.

[TheLittleBird]

What if a small group of "Qunari" joined up with a Dalish tribe. The keepers could train the mages and the Qunari would add a lot to the protection of the tribe. Both are outsiders and unwanted by the Human kingdoms.

 

That would be an extremely interesting premise, though I doubt it's very likely. Great idea, though.

[Angarma]

In this thread David Gaider says the Qunari is Tal-Vashoth and then goes on to say (if you scroll down a little) that they technically are Vashoth. Funny, I saw your name in the thread as well.

Also as littbird said you were present in that thread and you knew you were wrong and have been corrected then since Gaider said all pc Qunari will be Vashoth.

 
So you two are saying a former Saarebas couldn't *ever* be seen as a Vashoth?

 

Also, Spectre Slayer:

 

If it turns out that the term 'Vashoth' can be used on Kossith born outside the Qun, I wouldn't have actually been wrong at all.

 

(In that thread, of course).
 

They ruled out the bound Sarrebas version ( even a freed one) awhile ago during the podcasts from NA (to be more specific the playable race one 20+ minutes in) and what he meant was that it wouldn't work of they did that.

 

Mhm, this interests me, could someone provide me with a link to this?

[Palidane]

I don't really see the distinction. The world of the Qunari is black and white, if you are not with them, you are against them. I don't see why they would react any differently to a Qunari Mage just because he wasn't "true".

[Spectre slayer]

So you two are saying a former Saarebas couldn't *ever* be seen as a Vashoth?

Also, Spectre Slayer:

If it turns out that the term 'Vashoth' can be used on Kossith born outside the Qun, I wouldn't have actually been wrong at all.

(In that thread, of course).


Mhm, this interests me, could someone provide me with a link to this?

Yep you can play as a Qunari mage variant but we're not doing the Saarebas, the bound stiched up and chained up version nor do you ever get chained up at all laughs ... yeah something about that goes against player agency.

So no bound up version and we aren't apart of the Qun either and again they already confirmed we're playing as a Vashoth and every Qunari pc is a Vashoth.

No that's not what i'm saying, just the player character as per Gaider and Kirby. A Qunari with no knowledge of the Qun will be referred to as a Qunari and call themselves Qunari. ( If you want to call them whatever.)

So it's likely we have knowledge of the Qun at the very least our family was once a part of the Qun at some point or something like that and never took any action against the Qunari. (hmm i'm having problems again wonderful)

[Aldric Shepard]

You're part of a long line of kossith that have existed in a remote part of Thedas outside Qunari control. When you showed signs of magical ability, the other kossith didn't know what to do with you and were afraid due to the warnings against saarebas they still heeded. Out of fear they gave you over to a Witch of the Wilds that lived near their village, and she raised and trained you.

[Divine Justinia V]

It will be very interesting to see how much of a part it plays when dealing with the Qunari. Considering their strong feelings about Mages, I can't imagine it going over too smoothly.

[Anvos]

Not sure if this is really a debate when you could buy a book teaching you blood magic in Amarathine's market ins DAA.

 

So its likely even if we weren't put in the circle it could have been learned from books or the community you come from is a couple generations separated from the Qun so they could have developed their own instructors in magic.

[Fortlowe]

One of my very favorite movies, Gattaca addresses the plight of Qunari 'love children' very well. Qunari practice eugenics. Openly and without question. The primary flaw of eugenics, beyond of course the assumption that we know better than nature, is passion. Mankind is passionate even more so than she/he is rational. It can honestly be said that passion plays a far greater role in our progress than any reason can muster.

So if some star crossed Qunari lovers make a child what are they to do? Moreso, if the fruits of their emotion bears the Fades preference, what then?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

One of my very favorite movies, Gattaca addresses the plight of Qunari 'love children' very well. Qunari practice eugenics. Openly and without question. The primary flaw of eugenics, beyond of course the assumption that we know better than nature, is passion. Mankind is passionate even more so the she/he is rational. It can honestly be said that passion plays a far greater role in our progress than any reason can muster.

So if some star crossed Qunari lovers make a child what are they to do? Morerso, if the fruits of their emotion bears the Fades preference, what then?

 

From the Wiki:

 

Qunari generally do not associate mating with love. They feel love. They have friends. They form emotional bonds with one another. However, they simply do not sleep with each other to express it. If they do, then they are sent to be reeducated by the Ben-Hassrath. If a child is produced, the same thing happens as with all other Qunari children: it is sent to be raised by the Tamassrans, evaluated, and assigned a job. Qunari do not waste resources unnecessarily, people included.

[Fortlowe]

From the Wiki:
 
Qunari generally do not associate mating with love. They feel love. They have friends. They form emotional bonds with one another. However, they simply do not sleep with each other to express it. If they do, then they are sent to be reeducated by the Ben-Hassrath. If a child is produced, the same thing happens as with all other Qunari children: it is sent to be raised by the Tamassrans, evaluated, and assigned a job. Qunari do not waste resources unnecessarily, people included.

I'm sure that's exactly what the Law says.

[Eveangaline]

Born to two kossiths that ran away from the qun?

[Big I]

My guess is the qunari inquisitor will be Rivaini. Rivain is tolerant of the qun and of magic.

[mikeymoonshine]

Not sure if this is really a debate when you could buy a book teaching you blood magic in Amarathine's market ins DAA.

 

So its likely even if we weren't put in the circle it could have been learned from books or the community you come from is a couple generations separated from the Qun so they could have developed their own instructors in magic.

 

I was under the impression that you had to train for years just to learn how to control your magic. The Mage warden commander has already been trained and is exceptionally skilled. 

 

 From what I have heard Qunari mages are meant to be kinda poorly trained. I dunno how a vathosh mage who has left the qun could do better or even as well as they can and I am assuming our PC is meant to be exceptional. 

As I said in the OP I am going off what anders said about Malcolm Hawke being able to train his kids well in magic, it seemed like only an exceptional mage would be able to do that alone. 

[Navasha]

My guess is we will be born away from the Qun and are trained by mage tutor.    Times have changed dramatically since Awakening when Anders said its hard to find training outside the circles.    The circles have broken and there are probably mages scattered about the lands now.

 

Or perhaps it was Flemeth, who saw something in the threads of fate and taught the little oxbaby a few of the basics.   I mean will likely be a lvl 1 so its not like our training needs to be intensive. 

[Nightdragon8]

My guess is we will be born away from the Qun and are trained by mage tutor.    Times have changed dramatically since Awakening when Anders said its hard to find training outside the circles.    The circles have broken and there are probably mages scattered about the lands now.

 

Or perhaps it was Flemeth, who saw something in the threads of fate and taught the little oxbaby a few of the basics.   I mean will likely be a lvl 1 so its not like our training needs to be intensive. 

tho I don't think its been THAT long since the circles broke. from what I understand only like 2-5 years.

[mikeymoonshine]

My guess is we will be born away from the Qun and are trained by mage tutor.    Times have changed dramatically since Awakening when Anders said its hard to find training outside the circles.    The circles have broken and there are probably mages scattered about the lands now.

 

Or perhaps it was Flemeth, who saw something in the threads of fate and taught the little oxbaby a few of the basics.   I mean will likely be a lvl 1 so its not like our training needs to be intensive. 

 

But our character will have most likely been trained before all this stuff happened. 

[Herr Uhl]

One of the characters' parents could be a mage, similar to what they did with Hawke and kind of like how they handled the city elf being a good fighter (despite city elves not being allowed to have weapons).

[mikeymoonshine]

One of the characters' parents could be a mage, similar to what they did with Hawke and kind of like how they handled the city elf being a good fighter (despite city elves not being allowed to have weapons).

 

But then who trained that mage? 

[Herr Uhl]

But then who trained that mage? 

Mage handlers? Saarebas are more than able to hold their own as mages, if the ones in Kirkwall are anything to judge by.

[mikeymoonshine]

Mage handlers? Saarebas are more than able to hold their own as mages, if the ones in Kirkwall are anything to judge by.

 

I have already been over why I find that unlikely a few times. It's possible I guess but Qunari mages are meant to be poorly trained compared to other mages. (I don't think you can really go by the npc's in DA2) 

 

If what Anders said was true how can a mage that wasn't even trained that well train another mage to be our PC who will most likely be an exceptional mage? 

[Herr Uhl]

I have already been over why I find that unlikely a few times. It's possible I guess but Qunari mages are meant to be poorly trained compared to other mages. (I don't think you can really go by the npc's in DA2) 

 

If what Anders said was true how can a mage that wasn't even trained that well train another mage to be our PC who will most likely be an exceptional mage? 

 

We didn't even start out as full mages in Origins. You don't have to be that exceptional at the start.

[mikeymoonshine]

We didn't even start out as full mages in Origins. You don't have to be that exceptional at the start.

 

But you are described as exceptional so many times. Jowan, Cullen, other mages and apprentices, It's why Duncan recruits you. Also full mage or not you have already been fully trained. The only thing left to do was the harrowing and that was a test of resistance to demons not ability. 

[Navasha]

We also know that not all the oxmen exist within the Qun.   There could well be a tiny backwater village of them that have never lived or maybe even heard of the Qun.    We know that a tiny outpost of oxmen showed up in the Kocari Wilds way back during the first blight.    Its not inconceivable that something similar has occurred and that the Vashoth character knows as little about the Qun as any Ferelden.