58 réponses à ce sujet

[ColorsFade]

Ok nevermind I foudn a tlk file in the hak folder that I moved to the tlk and it loaded. BEGIN

 

Good deal!

[ColorsFade]

Congratulations on the release.

 

Thanks PW!

 

And thanks for all your help on the message boards for the past year

[Eguintir Eligard]

I am at the orchard. After I whoop the leader and get the message and journal update that they are chasing the runners and I should clear out stragglers, I am at an impasses. The bunch of goblins left are all neutral faction now and I can't kill them.

 

You probably have a script I can use in game to advance this but I thought I would let you know about the bug.

[ColorsFade]

Sorry to hear that Eguintir. That's the first time I'm seeing that particular glitch. 

 

The way the quest is built, you should still be able to exit the area and return to Triel to finish the quest. 

 

I don't have a script handy because that bug has never presented itself thus far. I will write one tonight. Contact me via email (my email is in the readme.txt file). I will send you a script to turn the remaining goblins hostile. 

[Eguintir Eligard]

Wait hold on here.

 

I got the message to clear the rest and journal entry as I said.

 

Now that I tried to exit I ran into the scout leader. Cut scene when we talked, and his two scouts chased goblins east. Now he's asking me to clear whats left and they've gone hostile now.

[ColorsFade]

So you're good. 

 

There's some oddities with the engine the way triggering conversations work. I probably am not doing it the most fool-proof way possible there, which is why the lead scout has the conversation attached to him, just so you can click on him and proceed. 

 

I need to find a more fool-proof way to make sure conversations fire.. 

[Dann-J]

So you're good. 

 

There's some oddities with the engine the way triggering conversations work. I probably am not doing it the most fool-proof way possible there, which is why the lead scout has the conversation attached to him, just so you can click on him and proceed. 

 

I need to find a more fool-proof way to make sure conversations fire.. 

 

If you're using talk triggers on the ground, they can be unreliable at times. Having the conversation also attached to the creature is a good failsafe though.

 

I sometimes like to trigger conversations from the OnClientEnter script when I enter new areas, in the form of short one-off cutscene introductions. They've never let me down so far, and make a great hook for autosaves when they end. They have the advantage that you can reset the variables stored on the area that the script relies on, so the next time you enter it you can trigger a new conversation with a new NPC if required.

 

I'm also in the process of tweaking a custom AOE that triggers a conversation when you get within 5m of a creature. It's very useful for NPC comments via bark strings when the player walks past, plus it doesn't involve monkeying with OnPerceived scripts.

[ColorsFade]

I do a lot of the conversation trigger with OnClientEnter as well DannJ. In fact, the area he's talking about, there is a cut-scene conversation as soon as you load into the area. 

 

But there is another cut-scene conversation as soon as you take down the small "boss" monster in the zone. When that happens, it's via an OnDeath script. All the monsters are turned non-hostile and then the appropriate NPC is spawned and the conversation starts. 

 

I keep the conversation on the NPC as a failsafe, so it obviously worked in that way, but I think I know what happend: I think the NPC in question didn't spawn fast enough, so the conversation didn't fire. 

 

What I'll do, for the Chapter 1 release, is go back and fix that by spawning the NPC ahead of time and making them script-hidden. Unhiding them won't have the potential for delay that a spawn-in might, and with a very small delay in there I should be able to ensure the conversation triggers correctly. 

 

But to your point: yes, OnClientEnter has been reliable for me as well. I had not thought about the auto-save potential, however. I am glad you pointed that out! I will definitely be doing that in some instances in the future. 

[Eguintir Eligard]

This was part of what dented a lot of my work ethic when modding... I find it hard to bust my hump when there are flaws that will break it no matter what all over the game. Failsafe conversations are impossible to pull off, except for one method I used (but this only works a certain way), which was to have the NPC chase the PC and keep doing it until his conversation attempt succeeded. Then you can set a flag on the very last node of that conversation to make him stop trying it again.

 

Retrospectively this could be done with an Ipoint Im sure... non stop checks rather than just check twice as the base built in code does.

[andysks]

Spawning on death has given me problems as well. I used alternatives to be safe. Example: if the OnDeath of the boss could only change the faction of the rest of the hostile creatures, and start a convo with one of them, an ipoint that is already placed (So that tag is there anyways) that's just a camera angle. In this node you ga_create_object and jump to conversation which these two scripts never failed... on me at least.

The OnDeath could spawn an ipoint speaker, which works flawlessly, together with changing the faction..

[Eguintir Eligard]

Final Analysis of the Prologue

 

Party Info: I was a wizard, accepted all cronies I found, never got the cleric till last quest before the banditos.

Strategy: I was basically an all archery party except my paladin, and the odd time I let the rogue dual wield against solo opponents

 

Thoughts

• Balance was pretty right on. I had a semi tough time until level 1, as is expected. Even after I hit level 2, I got a little arrogant and tried to take on big encounters or boss encounters without resting and would fail. But resting and restoring spells I won. Can't get more right on than that for balance
• It occurs to me that NWN1 style dialogues or even party chat dialogues would suit this campaign i virtually all cases. This isn't just a style preference for myself, I actually think it would have gelled with the setting better and functionally see the next point
• For this game to be truly suitable for a player to pick a class as they wish, the creatures you converse with should be able to talk to the party character currently controlled, not the PC char only. Obviously the fighter leads the party when exploring (you don't lead into a battle or even an unknown area with a wizard wielding a crossbow). And when I talk to anyone, it warps to my PC. Most important however, when a conversation ends with a combat, the game selects the leader (my wizard) and my wizard is warped to stand beside the bad guy for the chat, and is now dog food once the battle begins. Yes this was the case in the OC, but there's no reason we can't out do them. Without this it pretty much demands you play a warrior type only as a pc.
• The loot balance was pretty good. Getting anything magical felt mostly like a big score. 1d6 fire damage is a little overpowered at that level though. 1d3 maybe.
• I like how the setting was approached. Keeping it polished, and sticking to a few stereotypes rather than trying to get too weird or too epic right off the bat. It was a good prologue that makes you want to continue the series as the next chapters come out.
• Good use of quick dungeon exits rather than the long walk back after the end.

[ColorsFade]

Thanks for the feedback Eguintir! Glad you liked it enough to want to play the next Chapter! 

 

My replies: 

 

1) It was literally a last minute decision by me to change from 1D2 to 1D6 on the fire damage. I don't know what prompted me to change it, but I did. I'll probably change it back (or 1D3 as you suggest) for Chapter 1 release

 

2) I went back and forth on whether to do NWN1 or NWN2 style dialogs. I actually experimented with both types in most conversations. It wasn't until I did a full play-through myself that I decided on the cut-scene approach to all dialogs except vendors. I just prefer the cut-scene, cinematic feel to these games. 

 

3) As to the warping issue - I will definitely look into that, because I believe there is a way to eliminate that by specifying that the conversation ignore distance between the speakers. So I'll make a run with a wizard myself and do some testing and see if I cannot get that ironed out. 

 

4) Makes me really happy to hear about the combat balance. And this comment made me smile: "Getting anything magical felt mostly like a big score." 

 

One thing I'm working really hard to do is make the magic stuff special. Hence the artifact system, no crafting, and the way it's going to be metered out. 

 

5) I am not sure I can do anything about the conversation issue. Someone else might correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think because of the way the conversations are designed in the base game engine itself, there's no way to make an NPC talk to a companion being controlled by the player as opposed to the PC. It's just a hard-coded thing in the game engine. Each PC line is going to be the PC, not who the player is controlling. IF I'm wrong on this, I hope someone points it out :-) 

 

Thanks for much for playing it! And for your comments! I really do appreciate the feedback. 

 

-C

[ColorsFade]

Thanks for the feedback Eguintir! Glad you liked it enough to want to play the next Chapter! 

 

My replies: 

 

1) It was literally a last minute decision by me to change from 1D2 to 1D6 on the fire damage. I don't know what prompted me to change it, but I did. I'll probably change it back (or 1D3 as you suggest) for Chapter 1 release

 

2) I went back and forth on whether to do NWN1 or NWN2 style dialogs. I actually experimented with both types in most conversations. It wasn't until I did a full play-through myself that I decided on the cut-scene approach to all dialogs except vendors. I just prefer the cut-scene, cinematic feel to these games. 

 

3) As to the warping issue - I will definitely look into that, because I believe there is a way to eliminate that by specifying that the conversation ignore distance between the speakers. So I'll make a run with a wizard myself and do some testing and see if I cannot get that ironed out. 

 

4) Makes me really happy to hear about the combat balance. And this comment made me smile: "Getting anything magical felt mostly like a big score." 

 

One thing I'm working really hard to do is make the magic stuff special. Hence the artifact system, no crafting, and the way it's going to be metered out. 

 

5) I am not sure I can do anything about the conversation issue. Someone else might correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think because of the way the conversations are designed in the base game engine itself, there's no way to make an NPC talk to a companion being controlled by the player as opposed to the PC. It's just a hard-coded thing in the game engine. Each PC line is going to be the PC, not who the player is controlling. IF I'm wrong on this, I hope someone points it out :-) 

 

Thanks for much for playing it! And for your comments! I really do appreciate the feedback. 

 

-C

[Tchos]

Congrats on the release, belatedly.
 

Retrospectively this could be done with an Ipoint Im sure... non stop checks rather than just check twice as the base built in code does.

 
Yes, it could, and should.  And it doesn't just check twice -- it checks twice per heartbeat so that it can check once every 3 seconds instead of every 6 seconds.

 

The OnDeath could spawn an ipoint speaker, which works flawlessly, together with changing the faction..

 

This is correct, and how it needs to be done.  The system works flawlessly if you use it the way it was intended.

[kevL]

3) As to the warping issue - I will definitely look into that, because I believe there is a way to eliminate that by specifying that the conversation ignore distance between the speakers. So I'll make a run with a wizard myself and do some testing and see if I cannot get that ironed out.
 
5) I am not sure I can do anything about the conversation issue. Someone else might correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think because of the way the conversations are designed in the base game engine itself, there's no way to make an NPC talk to a companion being controlled by the player as opposed to the PC. It's just a hard-coded thing in the game engine. Each PC line is going to be the PC, not who the player is controlling. IF I'm wrong on this, I hope someone points it out :-)

am sure there's a way to do this, CF.

( only my recollection here, not examining toolset ) I believe SoZ does this by default. Not sure if the SoZ scripts are needed or not. I think it's controlled by either/and/or a switch in Campaign settings, Dialog settings

something about "Party Chat" rings a bell...


SoZ has ofc the fancier NwN1-style dialog windows, allowing player to choose the speaker after conversation is engaged, and if within distance. But personally i'd like to see a whack at standard NwN1 dialog windows w/ player-controlled creature - though since that strikes me as potentially problematic (or just awkward), the SoZ dialog windows are perhaps the way to go,


hopefully someone who knows this stuff offhand posts more info about it

[Tchos]

Yes, as kevL says, there's nothing special you need to do to let the currently-controlled character do the talking, instead of the main PC, except to tick the "Party chat" box in the conversation properties.  There's another way to do it without that, I believe, but that's the best way, as it allows the player to choose the party member with the appropriate skills to contribute to the conversation, rather than the main PC having to be the jack of all social trades character as in the OC and NWN1 modules.

[ColorsFade]

Yes, as kevL says, there's nothing special you need to do to let the currently-controlled character do the talking, instead of the main PC, except to tick the "Party chat" box in the conversation properties.  There's another way to do it without that, I believe, but that's the best way, as it allows the player to choose the party member with the appropriate skills to contribute to the conversation, rather than the main PC having to be the jack of all social trades character as in the OC and NWN1 modules.

 

Oh great! Wow, I didn't even know that. I thought the Party Chat box was more something for multiplayer only. 

 

I see I have some work to do then  

 

Thanks for the tips guys! 

[ColorsFade]

Congrats on the release, belatedly.
 

 
Yes, it could, and should.  And it doesn't just check twice -- it checks twice per heartbeat so that it can check once every 3 seconds instead of every 6 seconds.

 

 

This is correct, and how it needs to be done.  The system works flawlessly if you use it the way it was intended.

 

I see... so I should be using iPoints with HB scripts for this stuff... 

 

Makes sense, because it has the HB to keep checking. 

 

What do you recommend for preventing the HB from firing off the conversation a second time? Local variable on the iPoint? Set the conversation node as OncePerModule? Destroy the iPoint once the conversation has started?

[Tchos]

You don't have to do anything.  It's all built in.  Just spawn the ipoint speaker using the special function for spawning an ipoint speaker.  It takes care of everything, including destroying itself when the conversation fires successfully.

[kevL]

I'm curious to hear how PartyChat goes with full cutscenes ...


Does PC warp around? Does extending dialog-distance stop that? Does controlled-character warp? etc.

Does "party chat" negate cutscenes altogether ...?

[Tchos]

With party chat, nobody warps around*.  Yes, it negates cutscenes.  This is for full player agency and interactivity, not cinematics.

 

* Edited to add: Unless you use a speak trigger set to warp to the main PC or any other OC script that does the same thing.  That's specifically scripted to change the currently-controlled player to the main PC, party chat or not.  But I strongly suggest not using those OC speak triggers in the first place.

[kevL]

ah

[Tchos]

There is a way to allow you to at least start the conversation with a party member, without switching to the main PC, and retain the cinematics, but you won't be able to switch characters during the conversation.  For instance, if a conversation begins unexpectedly, as it sounds like will happen in this module, and you happen to be controlling a character with the wrong skill sets for the situation, or even if you intentionally begin a conversation and only then do you find out what skills will be required, you can switch to that character with party chat, but not with a cinematic. 

 

For instance, you might decide you want to bluff this person, but you're not controlling your silver-tongued bard, so he'll just stand around like an idiot and let you fumble through an attempt.  Likewise if you happen upon a conversation-led situation that would benefit from a rogue's skills, like Neeshka's quest in the OC.  It was a cinematic conversation that required rogue skills to pull something out of a fire, but since you could only do it with the main PC and not switch to Neeshka, you were likely to fail.  For no reason, since Neeshka was standing right there in your party.

[ColorsFade]

You don't have to do anything.  It's all built in.  Just spawn the ipoint speaker using the special function for spawning an ipoint speaker.  It takes care of everything, including destroying itself when the conversation fires successfully.

 

Offhand, do you recall this function?