97 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

Whatever option they pick, they need to do 1 thing - STICK WITH IT. I wouldn't complain about lack of SHep dialogue choices/unprompted talking if he/she was like that from a start. But changing the rules of player character in 3rd part of a trilogy for no reason is simply a design mistake and rightfully criticized

[JamesFaith]

Whatever option they pick, they need to do 1 thing - STICK WITH IT. I wouldn't complain about lack of SHep dialogue choices/unprompted talking if he/she was like that from a start. But changing the rules of player character in 3rd part of a trilogy for no reason is simply a design mistake and rightfully criticized

 

So static model for all parts of series without acknowledging any changes which should appear during 5, 6 years of development? Because when more autodialog was considered mistake in ME3, it doesn't mean, that every change have to be to worse.

 

And dialog model was already slightly altered in ME2 - most visible change was Paragon/Renegade interrupts. By your logic were these interrupts design mistake too?

[Iakus]

It's usually not a mistake if it adds options for the player.

 

Taking options away is something else

[Farangbaa]

The characterising autodialogue doesn't have to be there and it wasn't there in the previous installments by design. It wouldn't have required more work without it, It was a design choice to establish a awful verbose standardised auto shep. Just by stripping that down alone you would be restoring the sense of player characterisation as the percentage of dialogue controlled by the player would be much higher. Obviously cutting all that needless awful characterising auto-dialogue would also wordcount for elsewhere.

 

Oh yeah, you mean like ME1 (as stated here many times before!). Where they give you 3 options, but Shepard says exactly the same.

 

agreed. Bring back the ME1 dialogue system.  

Read above.

[Fixers0]

Oh yeah, you mean like ME1 (as stated here many times before!). Where they give you 3 options, but Shepard says exactly the same.

 

 

Ever tried counting the times that happens and offsetting it against the total amount of available dialogue choice?

[nallepuh86]

Third one had best dialog and it felt most natural. First had many dialog options that didnt affect anything, well not as bad as in dragon age origins, but still.

 

So im hoping that they do the mass effect 3 way, but just more dialog, less filler combat. They nicely reduced the filler combat in me3, but still it has too many.

[Linkenski]

Completely agree with OP. I would go as far as to say the autodialogue amount present in ME3 completely ruined almost every second of it for me. It just didn't sit right with me at all. Because cinematics were more like basic cutscenes coupled with some bad writing here and there plus the linearity of the game i felt it suffered from Uncharted syndrome. For some reason there are some gamers who are fine with how so many games have tried to follow the trends from Uncharted and other half-games out there but in ME3 I just didn't feel like I was playing a Mass Effect game.

 

Please Bioware, I don't just expect a little bit less autodialogue in ME4, I expect it to be just as in ME2 or even more than that. Either way since this game will likely be a one-off story (aka no sequels) I hope whatever you choose to do, you maintain those rules for all sequels. You don't make a trilogy and then decide to fundamentally streamline everything in the final game so much that it ruins the original concept.

 

TL;DR: We're still talking about video-games here. It has to feel like a game and not a movie so G/O with the stupid autodialogue from ME3.

[Handmaiden]

I didn't like the forced dialogue in ME3 and hope they revert back to the ME1&2 style. But It's also sort of annoying how there's always a "GOOD" "BAD" or "NEUTRAL" thing, I think it would be cool if they sort of did dialogue similar to Telltale's Walking Dead where the options aren't necessarily BAD or GOOD, just options. But I'm not saying completely copy it, just get some inspiration from the style.

[MissMayhem96]

ME3 Dialogue choices were either Paragon or Renegade, It wasn't till my second playthrough that I was starting to miss that neutral dialogue option.

 

It would have been interesting to see the DA2 Snarky!Dialogue option be incorporated in ME.

[Gkonone]

Not more dialogue options, more consequences, that would be great.

[JohnRaynor]

Yes, but you forget something important.

 

In ME1 it was so easy becuz you add some dialog with no function behind it. That doesnt really do something later..

In ME2 you had some less things to choose, the guys were experimenting with that stuff making it more usefull so it changes scenes etc..

In ME3 they have it done but thats a lot of work. If they should do all you say, making more dialogues etc. They can then go and make 3 Mass Effect games at once and combine it giving you the options... so they need to do the 3x workload aye.

[OPM_Lunacy]

I suppose Mass Effect 2 was the best game for player dialogue options: in Mass Effect 1 you don't have paragon/renegade actions, and in Mass Effect 3 the player options are more limited than in ME2

I hope the dialogue system in ME4 is similar to the one in ME2

[ZipZap2000]

Example

 

ME2 walk in to see Samara cinematic dialogue varying angles facial expressions character interactions with environment and Shep. Options to take part in the conversation.

 

ME3 walk in to see Ashley stiff third person auto dialogue the character doesn't move no facial expressions no interactions at all the only thing that actually changes when you initiate the conversation is the characters mouth is moving. There are no options beyond pressing 'A' repeatedly.

 

I wouldn't want to go back to ME1 but ME2 seems far superior.

[Undead Han]

ME3 had more written lines for than the first two Mass Effect games. But Bioware kind of painted itself into a corner as far as having too many squadmates/romances and variables to account for in Mass Effect 3...and maybe that was a bit too ambitious (I rarely had issues with the auto-dialogue or the dialogue wheel in ME3).

 

Well said.

 

If there is a lesson there, is that if the next game is going to be the first part of a new duology or trilogy, they should stick with the same core cast of companions throughout the series. You have a casualty or two along the way and perhaps a couple of additions, but for the most part you should have the core cast of the first game present in the end of the third. And you don't introduce an entirely new cast of companions in the middle chapter. If there is a suicide mission, save it for the finale of the last game.

 

I think the problem with disappointing companion cameos in ME3 was tied to there just being too many companion characters to account for, along with their variable survival or relationship states. Less is sometimes more.

[Vazgen]

What I would like is not a clear distinction between Paragon, Renegade and neutral choices. Mix them up. Don't make top option = Paragon, bottom option = Renegade, make the player read what he's saying and choose it, not just keep the mouse in the same spot for the best result lol

[KaiserShep]

What I would like is not a clear distinction between Paragon, Renegade and neutral choices. Mix them up. Don't make top option = Paragon, bottom option = Renegade, make the player read what he's saying and choose it, not just keep the mouse in the same spot for the best result lol

 

I wouldn't mind having an indication of tone along with the paraphrase, much like what is being implemented in Dragon Age. Frankly, I agree with other users on this forum that the morality scale should either go away or be majorly overhauled somehow. I don't need a red and blue bar to know where my character's morality lies. I would certainly remember the good or rotten deeds my PC's done and how they all add up in the story.

[Vazgen]

I wouldn't mind having an indication of tone along with the paraphrase, much like what is being implemented in Dragon Age. Frankly, I agree with other users on this forum that the morality scale should either go away or be majorly overhauled somehow. I don't need a red and blue bar to know where my character's morality lies. I would certainly remember the good or rotten deeds my PC's done and how they all add up in the story.

I think the morality scale is fine, but the prompts "+10 Renegade" need to be gone. That will make the gameplay more immersive and you will always be able to check out what kind of a character you ended up with through the squad screen. The bar is quite non-intrusive, I barely even looked at it. But sometimes it's nice to see my character's "personality" visually

[saintstc]

I would also like to see the end of auto dialogue, and the re-introduction of the neutral option. Player agency is a significant part of an rpg, especially a Bioware one. By taking away our ability to dictate the dialogue we lose an essential part of what makes our character our own. In ME3, Shepard became less of an extension of the player, and more of a pre-defined character like that seen in an action game. Dialogue choices also allow us to have a influence on the narrative, rather than just have us be passive spectators to it.

 

Regarding the morality system, the problem I see with it, is that it is doesn't have any purpose beyond providing us with a visual indicator of how good or bad we are and determining our ability to charm or intimidate. I think the morality system would be more interesting if our moral disposition influenced npc's attitude toward the player character. For example, a council member may act more positively toward a paragon character, whereas as a character like Aria may find a renegade player more agreeable.

[JCFR]

Every time I play ME3 now I'm always bummed out at how much autodialogue there is in the game. For me personally ME3 would have been a lot better had I actually had more dialogue options. I think I read somewhere that the majority of people didn't really use the middle option in 1 and 2 but I think that had more to do with people trying to stick to a Renegade or Paragon playthrough.

 

My suggestion (well, hope) for the next game is to bring back the options we had in 1 and 2. I know I'm not alone in the autodialogue department but I felt like I needed to post this on the chance that I might remind Bioware that there are still some people who prefer Mass Effect as an RPG and not so much as an action game.

 

I'm fully with you on that point.

I didn't like this paragon-renegade-system in general. It felt to limited. Like when i, at some point in the story, approached some guy, which i really, really wanted to punch or execute... but the option wasn't there or greyed, as if saying " you could have done that, if your renegade-bar was higher". But hell, i don't like playing the "bad guy" all the time.

And even more often i felt like "why do they even give me a choice?" I can only  be a paragon or a renegade... nothing inbetween.

So i wished, Bioware would simply cut out that system and give some additional choices to interakt. I always liked the moments in Me2 when i ways given the option to interrupt speaking enemies by doing something unexpected - made me feel like having control of the situation.  More things like that.

 

For example: I'm talking to one of my crewmembers and  we're in kind of a stalemate.Usually th options wre mainly to convince the guy or just give him an order to obey my will. But how about some additional option like asking someone else for his/her opinion or just leave the guy standing there and give order to someone who obeys... or hell, knock him out and do it yourself.

Another cool thing would be being able, to unlock further options/choices, by asking questions and going more into detail. Like: At the beginning of a dialogue i canonly decide  between to things, but  by asking and driving the dialogue furthor, more things unlock.

That would be awesome and give the dialogues am much more dynamic feeling.

[Farangbaa]

What I would like is not a clear distinction between Paragon, Renegade and neutral choices. Mix them up. Don't make top option = Paragon, bottom option = Renegade, make the player read what he's saying and choose it, not just keep the mouse in the same spot for the best result lol

 

Well they would have to make paraphrases a lot better then.

 

'I couldn't hold back' --> 'And that's how it's done kids'

 

WHAT?!?!?

[Farangbaa]

Ever tried counting the times that happens and offsetting it against the total amount of available dialogue choice?

 

I counted at least 10 instances up to and until you're a Spectre in ME1.

 

And by 'counting' I mean I just noticed them because I've played the game so much, I wasn't actually looking for them. There's probably a lot more.

[JCFR]

Whatever option they pick, they need to do 1 thing - STICK WITH IT. I wouldn't complain about lack of SHep dialogue choices/unprompted talking if he/she was like that from a start. But changing the rules of player character in 3rd part of a trilogy for no reason is simply a design mistake and rightfully criticizedOh..

 

Oh... really?

That's some bullsh*t i've ever heard.  `Just keep false design-choices, because that's how we've done it from the start`? What kind of logic isTHAT? 

Following this arguement, they should have kept the annyoing, boring side-missions from ME1... or the uncontrolable Mako (I hatet driving all around those empty maps to find all the collectables)... or how about the annoyingly long elevator-loadingscreens?

 

A sequel HAS to do better... get rid of flaws, make the good parts even better. ME2 was so much better than ME1, because it did exactly that.  And the dialogue options in ME1 weren't even that good, so i fail to see your point. It sounds just like: "we do it this way, because we've always done it like that"... and that's exactly the point why (for example) i have stopped buying CoD. Lacking innovation and improvement ist just lazy.

[R. Bratenahl]

I do NOT want more choices. That's right, you heard me, I DON'T WANT MORE CHOICES!

 

Why? Because it is a resource sink that results in horrible, non-sensical scenes. "OK, we know what we want the Paragon choice to be here, now we have to dream up two more choices. Hmm, well, let's try this out. It doesn't make any sense, but heck, most people will never see it."

 

Just look at the scene with Joram Talid. You can kill Joram Talid right in front of two cops and the scene plays out almost exactly as if Shepard had taken the paragon interrupt and shot the lamp instead. And then Bailey says he's not arresting them because the kid has obviously never committed a crime, though he is not so sure about the father. WHAT ABOUT SHEPARD WHO JUST COMMITTED MURDER?!

 

There are any number of scenes like this where one of the options is ridiculous. Now add even more options and the story descends into absurdity.

 

I say make the game about alignments, not about whether the PC is polite or rude. Align with one faction or another. Side with the Quarians, or side with the Geth, whatever. But the difference between "help me please" and "help me you a-hole" should be ditched as a game play device.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm surprised to find that I actually agree with this. It's not so much about the words as it is the actions and the choices.  When it comes to characterization: Give us what matters, give us chances to flesh out our characters moment to moment, give us the game changing decisions and the in depth relationship building.